You Know How They Say The Divorce Rate In The Church Is 50%?

[bonnie]

Prepare To Be Shocked…

These statistics show that the truth is radically different than what is normally reported...

It is commonly thought that the rate of divorce in the church is the same as the rate of divorce among those outside the church, supposedly a whopping 50 percent. According to Harvard-trained researcher Shaunti Feldhahn, though, the rate of divorce among church attenders is “maybe 15 percent, maybe 20 percent for all marriages.”

Feldhahn could find no actual evidence that the divorce rate in society at large and the church was an abysmal 50 percent. She spent eight years seeking the truth in this matter, and she came to dramatically different conclusions from what “common knowledge” describes. Feldhahn produced a book called The Good News About Marriage to debunk the discouraging notion that divorce in the church is around 50 percent.

Feldhahn describes the discouraged attitude many in the church had because of the false statistic:

For the average person in the congregation, there’s this subtle feeling like, ‘If that’s true: if on something as important as marriage, doing what the Bible says doesn’t change anything; what does that mean about the Bible?

Her husband, Jeff, describes the response of people once they hear the truth about the divorce statistic:

They go, ‘I can’t believe I believed this all these years. And I’ve heard it so many times. And I’ve heard it from the pulpit so many times.

Another encouraging statistic Shaunti Feldhahn shares is that eighty percent of marriages are happy, not 30 percent.

These statistics show that the truth is radically different from what people have been hearing these years–and gives real hope to the married within the church.

Read more at http://www.westernjournalism.com/wait-learn-actual-rate-divorce-church/#63828dZCqQGzsZmD.99

[Bravus]

Had to chase the links down the rabbit hole several layers to find the original article, but here it is:

http://catalystconference.com/read/everything-we-think-we-know-about-marriage-and-divorce-is-wrong/

She's not a 'Harvard researcher'. She studied at Harvard. She's a Christian speaker about marriage and relationships. None of that makes her work less valuable, but it does deflate a slightly shaky appeal to authority.

I'm not sure I'd heard the '50%' stat anyway - mostly '1 in 3'... which, including second marriages, is actually what she found anyway.

This article is quite interesting, and actually makes a similar point: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2012/2012-16.pdf

Thanks, bonnie, for posting this - apologies if this post seems critical, it actually got me thinking quite a bit.

[Bravus]

From the paper linked above:

"Previous studies have found that Christians and members of other religions have lower divorce rates than people with no religious affiliation. Heaton and Goodman analyzed four waves of the General Social Survey (GSS), and they found that among married individuals, 21% of Catholics and 29% of Protestants had been divorced compared to 42% of non-affiliated individuals.

Also analyzing the GSS, Wilcox examined data from 1992 to 2002 and found lower divorce rates among Catholics (35%), Jews (36%), Mainline Protestants (39%), Evangelicals (42%) and higher rates among black Protestants (53%) and individuals reporting no religious affiliation (53%).

Religious differences were amplified when attendance of religious services was taken into consideration.

Only 27% of the Catholics who attended church on a weekly basis had divorced, similar to 32% of Mainline Protestants

and 35% of Evangelicals. Active Jews, at 37%, and Black Protestants, at 49%, did not show much difference by attendance."

[bonnie]

Had to chase the links down the rabbit hole several layers to find the original article, but here it is:

http://catalystconference.com/read/everything-we-think-we-know-about-marriage-and-divorce-is-wrong/

She's not a 'Harvard researcher'. She studied at Harvard. She's a Christian speaker about marriage and relationships. None of that makes her work less valuable, but it does deflate a slightly shaky appeal to authority.

I'm not sure I'd heard the '50%' stat anyway - mostly '1 in 3'... which, including second marriages, is actually what she found anyway.

This article is quite interesting, and actually makes a similar point: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2012/2012-16.pdf

Thanks, bonnie, for posting this - apologies if this post seems critical, it actually got me thinking quite a bit.

I assumed that from the wording According to Harvard-trained researcher Shaunti Feldhahnshe was not a Harvard researcher. Only that she had attended Harvard

The article didn't state she was.

[Bravus]

Yes, my apologies: I read it as 'Harvard researcher', not 'Harvard-trained researcher'. My own issue. Guess I'll leave it as it is to own up to my own mistake and make the thread still make sense...

Basically, we're in agreement: if anyone quotes 50% for divorce stats, except within a couple of quite narrow and specific groups, they need fact-checking...

Mind you, that article suggests that the gap between believers and non-believers, while not zero, is also not vast.

[Gregory Matthews]

Here is what Wikipedia says about Shanuti Feldhahn:

Quote:

Feldhahn received her Bachelor’s degree in government and economics from The College of William and Mary in Virginia (Class of 1989); she then went on to serve on the staff of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee. She later attended Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government for a Master in Public Policy, and then worked at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York as one of the principal financial analysts on Japan during the time of the Japanese financial crisis.

The above is also confirmed by her biography which is on the Internet.

The interesting thing that we learn from the above is that she was trained by the Harvard's Kennedy school of Government and received a Master of Public Policy degree. As a result of that training, she became qualified to do financial analysis research. In her professional life she became an expert on Japanese financial issues during a specific period of time.

She should be given credit for her knowledge and expertise. However, the above does not indicate that she had either training or expertise in the social sciences and the area of marriage and divorce. IOW, she does not appear to be a qualified expert in the area in which she has written about marriage and divorce.

Does that mean that she is wrong. Of course not. she may be correct. But, in my opinion, further study is needed to determine the accuracy of her findings. I will suggest that her challenge to the common thinking is significant enough to warrant further study.

[bonnie]

She should be given credit for her knowledge and expertise. However, the above does not indicate that she had either training or expertise in the social sciences and the area of marriage and divorce. IOW, she does not appear to be a qualified expert in the area in which she has written about marriage and divorce.

Does that mean that she is wrong. Of course not. she may be correct. But, in my opinion, further study is needed to determine the accuracy of her findings. I will suggest that her challenge to the common thinking is significant enough to warrant further study.

I have been part of a couple of surveys "by experts".Any,this included, can be manipulated by the questions asked to arrive at the wanted conclusion. There isn't anymore reason to dispute hers than many "experts"

Further study may not give you the questions asked and how they were framed.

The last one I was part of was a "expert joke" determining the number of "hungry children in MN sponsored by the State of MN

The answers to the questions posed would almost invariably have

the answer they were looking for to prove the high number of children going to bed hungry in MN.

Asking any mother if she has ever fed her child off her plate,

fed her child without sitting down to eat herself,Did you ever have to divide a food product among your children to have enough to go around were questions that were used to determine children were going to bed hungry. I don't know of one mother that could have honestly said no.

One really idiotic question that could only have a yes or no answer was, Has your child ever had to eat something he didn't like or go without? Mine did and they were not part of this large number of claimed children going to bed hungry

[bonnie]

Regardless of her "lack of expertise" the divorce rate is far to high,whether christian or non christian

Home > 2014 > FebruaryFEB 14, 2014

MARRIAGE

Marriage, Divorce, and the Church: What do the stats say, and can marriage be happy?

Are Christian divorce rates the same, or even higher, than the rest of the population? Is a happy marriage possible? | Ed Stetzer

Valentine's Day.

Love is in the air, and that means church signs are awkwardly communicating the love of Jesus, teenage boys are cowering before their girlfriends' fathers, and married couples are waiting two hours for mediocre Italian food while their kids terrorize their babysitters.

However, for some, Valentine's Day isn't all chocolates and roses. It is a difficult day for some as it reminds them of a recent breakup or difficult divorce.

When it comes to marriage and divorce, people are drawn to shocking statistics.

But what do the stats really say? Do Christians divorce as often as the rest of the world or even more? Is happy marriage even possible? How can anybody actually be happy in marriage?

Let's look at some research:

What the Research Shows About Marriage and Divorce

One of the most common statements that I've seen is "Christians divorce at the same rate as non-Christians," undoubtedly giving the world another opportunity to shout "Hypocrite!" This is controversial statement that is surely going to attract eyes and pageviews, but how accurate is it? Some sociologists are even reporting that religious conservatives divorce more than the rest of society.

Furthermore, we've all heard that you have a 50% chance of getting divorced, because, you know, 1 in 2 marriages end in divorce.

One of the most common statements that I've seen is "Christians divorce at the same rate as non-Christians," undoubtedly giving the world another opportunity to shout "Hypocrite!"

Yet research found in Christians Are Hate-Filled Hypocrites... and Other Lies You've Been Told, shows that couples who are active in their faith are much less likely to divorce. Catholic couples were 31% less likely to divorce; Protestant couples 35% less likely; and Jewish couples 97% less likely, which in itself is quite impressive, I must say.

But, many news outlets breathlessly reported that being a conservative Protestant increases your chances of divorce-- even being near those conservative Protestants does so.

In a recent article on Canon and Culture that I featured in my Morning Roundup yesterday, Andrew Walker interviews Dr. Bradford Wilcox, Director of the National Marriage Project, and asks him the question, "Are religious conservatives really divorcing more than religious liberals, or more than people who have no religious affiliation at all?" Dr. Wilcox answers,

Up to a point, yes. The article finds that conservative Protestants, and counties with higher shares of conservative Protestants, are indeed more likely to divorce—compared to Americans in other mainstream traditions, from mainline Protestantism to Mormonism to Catholicism. But I'll mention two caveats that have gone unrecognized by popular media treatments, such as Michelle Goldberg's article in The Nation:

1. This study also finds that religiously unaffiliated Americans, and counties with higher shares of unaffiliated Americans, are the most likely to divorce. So, religion per se is not the problem and, indeed, secularism seems to be more conducive towards divorce than conservative Protestantism.

2. A new article by sociologist Charles Stokes in www.family-studies.org suggests that the problem here is mainly with nominal conservative Protestants—those who attend rarely or never. It's these nominal conservative Protestants—e.g., the Southern Baptist couple in Texas who rarely darken the door of a church—who are much more likely to divorce.

And, while we are addressing stats, let me add that no reputable study has found that 50% of marriages end in divorce—ever—though that does not stop it from spreading because people love bad stats. (The New York Times explains a bit on that stat here.)

Keep in mind that when you hear a stat that does not make sense—like going to church makes you more likely to divorce, contrary to many other studies—don't rush to assume it's true. It is often more complicated that the initial news reports.

So is a happy marriage even possible? Can anyone, Christians or not, be happy in their marriages?

What the Research Shows About Having a Strong Marriage

Shaunti Feldhahn is a Harvard-trained social researcher, popular speaker, and best-selling author of For Women Only and a number of other books.

I am thankful that Shaunti Feldhahn will be with me at the National Religious Broadcasters annual convention here in Nashville in a couple of weeks, and that I have the opportunity to interview her for TBN's Praise the Lord program at the end of this month.

53% of Very Happy Couples agree with the statement, "God is at the center of our marriage"

In her newest book, The Surprising Secrets of Highly Happy Marriages, Shanti compiles some stats and conducts some research of her own on marriage, and specifically, what makes for a happy marriage.

Her statistical findings, and the implications of these findings, are fascinating.

Here are a couple of stats that I found to be particularly interesting as it relates to faith and marriage:

53% of Very Happy Couples agree with the statement, "God is at the center of our marriage" (compared to 7% of Struggling Couples).

30% of Struggling Couples disagree with the statement, "God is at the center of our marriage."

She writes, "Highly happy couples tend to put God at the center of their marriage and focus on Him, rather than on their marriage or spouse, for fulfillment and happiness" (pg. 178, Highly Happy Marriages). (See her book for the methodology.)

Dr. Wilcox finds that "active conservative protestants" who attend church regularly are actually 35% less likely to divorce than those who have no religious preferences.

In all cases, notice the active element of the faith commitment.

"Nominal" Christians, however, those who simply call themselves Christians but so not actively engage with the faith, are actually 20% more likely than the general population to get divorced—perhaps there is a link between putting on a show in the religious and relational context.

Glenn T. Stanton elaborated on Wilcox' and others' findings at The Gospel Coalition.

So practically, what can we do? How can we have a strong, happy marriage? I've only been married 26 years, but I've learned a lot.

Some Advice

Well, since it is Valentine's Day, I'll share from my own loving relationship with Donna. We are not perfect, but here are 10 basic principles I've learned in over 25 years of marriage that may be helpful to consider as a married couple or even as a single person thinking about getting married and serving or leading a man or woman in covenant love for the rest of your life.

Marriage is worth the investment.

You have to invest in a marriage for it to be worth the investment.

Choosing your marriage partner is the most important human decision you will ever make.

Most fights are over stupid things that don't matter.

Most arguments are resolved when both people are more concerned with being in a relationship than with being right.

Sex is essential to a marriage relationship.

Practices (like date nights, long conversations, and trips together) make your marriage stronger.

Kids are awesome, but stress your marriage.

Never go to bed angry.

You need Jesus.

You can read more about those 10 pieces of advice here.

Our sin supplants sacrifice with selfishness in our marriages.

Happy, strong marriages are definitely possible, but it takes work—an ongoing effort. We're all sinners who need a Savior, and when you put two sinners together in a relationship like marriage, it's bound to be difficult sometimes.

Our sin supplants sacrifice with selfishness in our marriages. If we want to experience marriage as God created it to be, a reflection of his sacrificial love and leadership of the Church, we've got to keep him at the center of our marriages.

Your spouse isn't your Savior, Jesus is. Live that truth and your marriage will more likely thrive.

[Jeannieb43]

The best method for reducing the rate of divorce is to raise the age/education rates of the young people BEFORE they marry.

Some divorces are actually a good thing. Too many people marry before they are ready, or to a person who is not able to become a true partner and actually contribute to the marriage.

And the true travesty of this current generation is the increasing numbers of unwed mothers. Some of them are becoming pregnant intentionally, in order to collect welfare payments, or to gain "respect" among their peers, or for some other reason. But this results in a whole generation of children growing up without a dad. -- Not a good introduction to life for that child. They then have no role model for a good marriage, to begin with.

[bonnie]

The best method for reducing the rate of divorce is to raise the age/education rates of the young people BEFORE they marry.

Some divorces are actually a good thing. Too many people marry before they are ready, or to a person who is not able to become a true partner and actually contribute to the marriage.

And the true travesty of this current generation is the increasing numbers of unwed mothers. Some of them are becoming pregnant intentionally, in order to collect welfare payments, or to gain "respect" among their peers, or for some other reason. But this results in a whole generation of children growing up without a dad. -- Not a good introduction to life for that child. They then have no role model for a good marriage, to begin with.

Those I knew that got married and divorced when I got married,waaay back in 1962 did so for basically two reasons.Infidelity and physical abuse. The out of wedlock births were not nearly what they are today.Welfare was just beginning to rear it's ugly head.

The last 10-20 years most of those I know that have gotten divorced are not for infidelity or abuse but because he/she just wasn't making "me" happy any more.Some are on the second or third go around with spouses that "just aren't making them happy".

With welfare and the acceptance of out of wedlock births father's are no longer really necessary.

[Bravus]

Christian young people waiting until they get married to have sex, but therefore waiting nowhere near long enough to get married, doesn't actually help... Either they need to embrace celibacy more fervently and for longer... or... Well, within the SDA frame, they need to embrace celibacy more fervently and for longer. Get married when they're ready, not just because they're desperate...

[bonnie]

Christian young people waiting until they get married to have sex, but therefore waiting nowhere near long enough to get married, doesn't actually help... Either they need to embrace celibacy more fervently and for longer... or... Well, within the SDA frame, they need to embrace celibacy more fervently and for longer. Get married when they're ready, not just because they're desperate...

This isn't something that just effects SDA's.

Sounds like you think that celibate young people get married because they are desperate.

It is possible to raise teenagers that are not forced into marriage,abortion or single parenthood without them becoming desperate.

[Geoarrge]

I don't think it's healthy to delay marriage past the early 20's. Being economically unready while being very much biologically ready seems to be the cause of a great deal of misery among young adults who still want to try to do things right. That, and having the foreknowledge that being 'unhaaaaappy' is a legitimate excuse in any Western divorce court, it's demotivating.

[bonnie]

I don't think it's healthy to delay marriage past the early 20's. Being economically unready while being very much biologically ready seems to be the cause of a great deal of misery among young adults who still want to try to do things right. That, and having the foreknowledge that being 'unhaaaaappy' is a legitimate excuse in any Western divorce court, it's demotivating.

I guess it depends on what you mean by being economically ready.

All of our boys married before completing college.Not a large bank account or a secure job. Just as my husband and I did.

My husband and I knew three things,we needed to work for what we wanted,divorce was not in our vocabulary,and that our sons would not be raised with a substitute mother while I worked.

Our sons followed the same.

We knew by following that there would be many things we wanted put on hold.

I don't believe a spouse can make me happy.He can enhance that,he can certainly cause unhappiness. Many that divorce because he/she decides they are unhappy are now on their second/third search for someone to "make them happy"

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think economics is a valid concern before entering into a marriage. Even scripture mentions the duty to provide for family. (see Timothy 5:8 - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. ) If a couple doesn't have the wherewithal to provide, that's BIG concern.

Not everyone living in every place has the ability to "make it" by working hard. Lots of dedicated workers never rise above the poverty level, through no fault of their own.

It's my opinion that financial success depends a lot on luck of the draw: where you live, your personality, your abilities, your cultural status in life....

[bonnie]

I think economics is a valid concern before entering into a marriage. Even scripture mentions the duty to provide for family. (see Timothy 5:8 - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. ) If a couple doesn't have the wherewithal to provide, that's BIG concern.

Not everyone living in every place has the ability to "make it" by working hard. Lots of dedicated workers never rise above the poverty level, through no fault of their own.

It's my opinion that financial success depends a lot on luck of the draw: where you live, your personality, your abilities, your cultural status in life....

I didn't say economics wasn't a valid concern.The majority of those living in the US,not everyone living in every place.

Poverty in the US is far different than that of third world countries. We all have different talents and interest,how you use those is not up to the luck of the draw.

Some for reasons not of their making are unable to care for their families. Most can if they stop waiting for lady luck to visit them.

We all have economic concerns,we certainly did. To take care of those concerns required work,a lot of it.

The big difference is what you do. Three of the young families I know just really starting out,live on one salary.All have two children,all have decided that the mother will stay at home until the children are ready for school. None by the way are making 20.00 per hour.One husband is taking classes part time,two are learning the trade on the job for better pay.Each has a spouse that has found ways to save or make money at home.

This is not luck. This means they don't always have a lot of extra,but that is not their priority.They are not on welfare or subsidy of any kind.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I wasn't referring to Third World countries...I was referring to the United States.

Quote:

We all have different talents and interest,how you use those is not up to the luck of the draw.

I disagree....the ability to use talents and interests is very much connected to time and place and circumstances.

Quote:

Some for reasons not of their making are unable to care for their families. Most can if they stop waiting for lady luck to visit them.

I don't think "most people" who are unable to care for their families are just sitting and waiting for lady luck to visit them.

Quote:

Three of the young families I know just really starting out,live on one salary.All have two children,all have decided that the mother will stay at home until the children are ready for school. None by the way are making 20.00 per hour.One husband is taking classes part time,two are learning the trade on the job for better pay.Each has a spouse that has found ways to save or make money at home.

Since I'm not privy to these people's financial information, it's very difficult to respond intelligently.

[bonnie]

I disagree....the ability to use talents and interests is very much connected to time and place and circumstances.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

My father was one of the hardest working men I ever knew. The lumber mill went on strike, and he had a wife and two babies to care for. NO ONE wanted to hire the mill workers because potential employers figured the fellows would just go back to the mill when the strike ended. It didn't matter how much assurance was given to the contrary. Dad and many of his co-workers were out of work - that meant **no income** for over 6 months, most of whom had families with no other income.

It had absolutely NOTHING to do with "waiting for lady luck to visit"....

Bonnie, just because your husband and your acquaintances were fortunate enough to find work - any work - within a week of not having a job, doesn't mean other people in the same situation are twiddling their thumbs, sitting around waiting for a great job to roll into their lives, and not doing everything in their power to work - AT ANY JOB. Your situation cannot be the measure by which everyone else's financial situation is criticized. The idea that "if we can do it, everyone can" is simply not the case.

[bonnie]

My father was one of the hardest working men I ever knew. The lumber mill went on strike, and he had a wife and two babies to care for. NO ONE wanted to hire the mill workers because potential employers figured the fellows would just go back to the mill when the strike ended. It didn't matter how much assurance was given to the contrary. Dad and many of his co-workers were out of work - that meant **no income** for over 6 months, most of whom had families with no other income.

It had absolutely NOTHING to do with "waiting for lady luck to visit"....

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

No of course.Many need help,some will respond to that help with an all out effort to use that as a stepping stone,others will use it for an excuse.

Many times finding a job,any job,requires more than a lot of people are willing to put forth.

The human society has always had the sheep and the goats. What we are willing to give to others and what we look for in them is usually what we find.

"Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant. Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit."

Galatians 6:7-8 NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

[bonnie]

The human society has always had the sheep and the goats. What we are willing to give to others and what we look for in them is usually what we find.

"Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant. Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit."

Galatians 6:7-8 NLT

As is so often the case the text you quote is not relevant

For me,I don't consider those that fall on hard times and need temporary help "Goats".Those of us that can should willingly lend a hand

Even those of us that could avoid a lot of pitfalls with some better planning.

Do I resent tax dollars going to my next door neighbors? Yes.

Unmarried couple with two children. He works if he is not to busy doing something else.The father of the first child is in prison for beating his little girl.Within a very short time the current boyfriend was in residence and another child on the way.The mother is on welfare.

We have a trailer court three blocks from us. It is divided into two sections. Maybe the sheep and goats to you. No one living there is wealthy,that is where the similarities end.

The sheep keep their area's and trailers up,work,care for their families. The "goats' exist on welfare. Work or effort is a word they don't seem to understand or care to learn. I seriously doubt if luck rained down on only one section of this trailer court. The "sheep" may very well never progress beyond where they are.But they care for their families to the best of their ability.

As to what we look for we will find,Understanding that many abuse the system or could do better is not responsible for their behavior.

[Bravus]

I was talking more about being properly grown up than about economics. Our society tends to keep people younger, longer, and often those in their late teens are far from adult. Brain growth and maturation continues until about 25. Rushing into marriage too soon, purely because sex is off limits otherwise, doesn't help with the longevity of marriages.

While we're on stats, it would be great to see some on the longevity of marriages of Christians who married in their teens versus in their 20s.

[CoAspen]

When looking at stats, even among christian writers, it seems to be agreed that christian vs non christian people have the same divorce rate. The rate of divorce decreases with increase of age at marriage, and the higher the education the less divorce. With the emphasis on education with in the SDA church, it is possible that more are successful. I would think that also ties in with maturity but also economics.

[Geoarrge]

I was talking more about being properly grown up than about economics. Our society tends to keep people younger, longer, and often those in their late teens are far from adult. Brain growth and maturation continues until about 25. Rushing into marriage too soon, purely because sex is off limits otherwise, doesn't help with the longevity of marriages.

The problem isn't "rushing into marriage too soon," it's a dysfunctional education system that leaves young adults with no economically viable skills to enable them to live like adults.