SDA Church Asks for Exemption in Order Banning LGBT Discrimination

[onebeecee]

http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2014/06...-discrimination

"Our requests are grounded in the historical context of strong federal legal protections for religious organizations’ hiring practices. Under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as upheld by a unanimous Supreme Court, religious organizations are free to consider religion when deciding who is most qualified to join their respective staffs. They are free under Title VII to maintain a conduct standard that reflects their religions’ sincerely held beliefs, which include deep convictions about human sexuality."

Yup this church's ideas on sexuality have caused me so many anxieties, that to this day still linger. I was raped at the age of six by three neighbourhood boys. Even by the age of six, I understood many of the church's laws, so I knew this was a sin. Yes it was diffidently a sin, only not mine, but I thought it was mine and all through my life I carried this. On top of that I lied to my mother about what was happening. So I carried that too. It was the first time I wanted to kill myself, because I wasn't getting into heaven. And I've pretty much accepted the fact I won't. I cannot believe so many of the churches mantras, and if EG White is right, I'm a gonner. So congratulations SDA's you've lost another.

You may wonder why I make this comparison, to LBGT. It is because I hope that President Obama, does not endorse this. The church is made up of guidelinesfor us to live by, after all that is what the bible is, and I will not make any comment as to EG White, as I do not believe her to be a prophet. Let people live by their guidelines, they have a brain, and if they talk to God, isn't it between the person and his or her God? After all we will stand all before Christ with our sins and we stand equal!

I read an post here, that wondered why the North American church is losing members instead of gaining them. And there was the talk about repeat sermons, and boy was that right. How many ways can you say you are going to hell if you don't belong to this church. What about acceptance of all people sermons, because if Christ sought out the down and out people, he certainly, if he was on earth during this time, not turn this group away. It does not mean you have to endorse their lifestyle or even talk to them, although how unChrist like would that be? But they deserve the right to be who they are. Do we run around and stone people, do we have the same ideas on sex as we did lets say in the 1970"s (anyone remember that book that was a guideline for teenagers, I do, again a lot of non medical evidence, even when it was published. And a lot of unnecessary guilt from the "church" yet again. We no longer stone because they had sex out of marriage, nor do people even think it is acceptable way of punishing, we leave it up to God to judge. We do not have slaves, even though the bible says we can, because we realize everyone has value. And we certainly do not have multiple wives, because that is also against the law, which you all follow.

Please for the sake of these groups, let God do the talking, and the members do the walk the talk, which so many of you do not do. Yup it has been my experience! Can we not see that we all stand equal before God? That He is our only judge! Not you or I or even the freaking church. Make them feel the warmth of God's love and if it is a sin, don't you think, like the rest of us, when we commune with God, he let's us know our little or big things we need to take care of in our lives, to reflect him better, it will happen with these groups as well, and if it doesn't is it our business? According to the bible pick out that big splinter in your own eye, before working on your neighbours! Please do not let them suffer the guilt Jesus has already carried for us, that we don't need to carry. If they are committing a sin, Jesus already died for it, so why make it a stigma, a status that follows you sometimes all your life.

And if you don't want to follow the law of the land, then you do not deserve tax breaks, nor should you be able to trade shares on the public markets, and you do, I have proof! Nor should you put your money in with other heathens, when you trade in stocks and bonds. Nor be under an umbrella corporation run by the Bush family. I do believe EG White covers this, and she points out that our trading monies with people from outside the church should be done carefully as to not bring down morality of the church down, and I'd say being in business with the Bush family is not a good way to hold up a church's good name in the world today!

A sin is a sin, the only one God considers worse is lying, hmmmmm weapons of mass destruction, the degradation to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, and the millions of lives it affected, will be judged by God, since no court in the world wants to prosecute them. And you worry about a bunch of peaceful people who live to their beliefs. How about embracing that fact that they live to their beliefs how many of us can truly say that, after a very good examination of our lives.

And while it isn't any of your business, I am not part of the LBGT groups, just someone who would love to get this church out of the dark ages of mechanical thinking (Durkhiem) and into organic thinking. God gave us a brain to think with.

Now I guess really ex communicate/shun me. Don't worry it won't bother me, I'm so very use to it from this church.

Love your neighbour as yourself. And let God do the judging!

[Gail]

Onebeecee, my daughter was also raped as a child. She knows your pain, although she wasn't as far as I know blamed for it. Quite the opposite, she is a vibrant Christian today.

I know that if you came to church here you would be accepted and loved.

I myself am not gay but I have gay friends and have no problem with them.

[Gregory Matthews]

The title of this thread is confusing and subject to misunderstanding.

To clarify the situation, here is what was published:

Quote:

Dwayne Leslie, director of legislative affairs at the General Conference, was one of a list of over 100 religious leaders who signed a letter this week asking US President Barack Obama for religious freedom protection in the executive order he plans to sign prohibiting federal contractors from considering sexual orientation or gender identity in hiring decisions.

The letter asks that religious groups, who are permitted to discriminate in their hiring based on their beliefs, not be barred from working with the government in such areas as:

1) overseas relief and development services in partnership with USAID (which increasingly employs contracts as well as grants); 2) services on contract with the Bureau of Prisons; and 3) research, technical assistance, and other services via contracts and subcontracts with other federal departments and agencies.

The letter wants religious exemption language and a non-retaliation clause included so that faith-based service organizations are protected.

Certainly the Church has a right to request such an exemption. No one in this thread has challenged that right.

However, just because the letter has been written, does not mean that every member agree with it.

As a matter of fact, there are a significant number of members who do not agree with the purpose of the letter.

You will note that I did not say who was in the majority.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Yup this church's ideas on sexuality have caused me so many anxieties, that to this day still linger. I was raped at the age of six by three neighbourhood boys. Even by the age of six, I understood many of the church's laws, so I knew this was a sin. Yes it was diffidently a sin, only not mine, but I thought it was mine and all through my life I carried this. On top of that I lied to my mother about what was happening. So I carried that too. It was the first time I wanted to kill myself, because I wasn't getting into heaven. And I've pretty much accepted the fact I won't. I cannot believe so many of the churches mantras, and if EG White is right, I'm a gonner. So congratulations SDA's you've lost another.

Onebeecee: I hope that you can find the strength to continue to live with us, as warped as we sometimes are. I will be the first one to acknowledge that sometime we make it impossible for people to live with us.

In fact, I have a sermon that I sometimes preach (Did so couple of weeks ago.) on this very subject entitled: Welcome Home, Maybe?

AS to the idea that you are not getting into heaven and are a gonner: I hear the pain that such an idea represents. But, it is not truth. You re not a gonner and are on your way to heaven. God loves and want you very much.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

And while it isn't any of your business, I am not part of the LBGT groups, just someone who would love to get this church out of the dark ages of mechanical thinking (Durkhiem) and into organic thinking. God gave us a brain to think with.

Well, you have hit upon a truth. At times, the Church does seem to be in the "Dark Ages" of thinking.

However, that will change only as people within the Church change and not before.

Welcome to the SDA Church. Be part of that change.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Now I guess really ex communicate/shun me. Don't worry it won't bother me, I'm so very use to it from this church.

You have not given us a valid reason to do so.

Stick around for a while.

[Gail]

Quote:

Now I guess really ex communicate/shun me. Don't worry it won't bother me, I'm so very use to it from this church.

You have not given us a valid reason to do so.

Stick around for a while.

You see? Now there are two of us and I'm sure there are many others here that would befriend you :)

[Sojourner]

Yup this church's ideas on sexuality have caused me so many anxieties, that to this day still linger. I was raped at the age of six by three neighbourhood boys. Even by the age of six, I understood many of the church's laws, so I knew this was a sin. Yes it was diffidently a sin, only not mine, but I thought it was mine and all through my life I carried this. On top of that I lied to my mother about what was happening. So I carried that too. It was the first time I wanted to kill myself, because I wasn't getting into heaven. And I've pretty much accepted the fact I won't. I cannot believe so many of the churches mantras, and if EG White is right, I'm a gonner. So congratulations SDA's you've lost another.

Abuse is a heinous thing to go through and there are no easy answers, yet what I can tell you is that is also normal for victims to believe or to spend a large portion of their lives believing that what happened was their fault and they are in some way responsible for it.

It is also normal for children that are being abused to often go to the home of the abuser and seek out the abuse in order to normalize what is happening and then as they age believe that they are thus responsible for what has happened.

1Cor 13:11 - "when I was a child, I reasoned like a child - " You cannot ever be judged by decisions made as a child. You are judged by the decisions that you make as an adult.

Two things I suggest that you do, is view the film - "Good Will Hunting" by Matt Damon and Robin WIlliams, this film focuses on this issue of the fact that abuse is never your fault, secondly I would like to encourage you with this song written by Bjorn Stigson that was written for abuse victims. God loves you Onebeecee and you are not alone as an abused person in church or an SDA church. Its up to you if you want to be a part of our family, our arms are open to you! - http://youtu.be/Dp2lOI-99To

[phkrause]

Excellent posts Gregory and Gail. To me those replys are the church speaking!!

[BobRyan]

http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2014/06...-discrimination

"Our requests are grounded in the historical context of strong federal legal protections for religious organizations’ hiring practices. Under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as upheld by a unanimous Supreme Court, religious organizations are free to consider religion when deciding who is most qualified to join their respective staffs. They are free under Title VII to maintain a conduct standard that reflects their religions’ sincerely held beliefs, which include deep convictions about human sexuality."

[Gail]

Doctrine? Or behaviour of the members toward a person? I would need clarification on that point.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Now I guess really ex communicate/shun me. Don't worry it won't bother me, I'm so very use to it from this church.

Quote:

You see? Now there are two of us and I'm sure there are many others here that would befriend you

Make that at least 3 people. My heart goes out to you onebeecee. How many people have been chased away from the Kingdom because of being judged by the saints as "unworthy"? There is only One who has the right to judge us; and that is the Lord Jesus. He judges us all worthey; and has paid the penalty for our sins.

If you want acceptance, Gail's church is not the only place - come to ours. We have several members of the LGBT community and their supporters in our congregation; and even financially support a local ministry here that caters to those the LGBT community that are looking to reconcile their life style with their faith. Without churches that love them, they have few to no alternatives to remain in relationship with God.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'm confused. I was under the impression the 1BC was not in the LGBT group.. I may have misunderstood.

re: Émile Durkheim's idea of mechanical and organic solidarity: rather than throw out the entire concept of "mechanical" in favor of 100% "organic," why not simply accept Durkheim's theory of both, as a continuum between the two extremes? (I enjoy Durkheim. One of my degrees is in Sociology.)

[JoeMo]

Hi Pam,

1BC said in his initial post that he is not a member of the LGBT group; but his explicit support of them is causing him considerable grief among the saints who wish to preserve the thinking of the 1800's. I think the church needs clear-thinking supporters of LGBTs (and people with substance abuse problems) to help pave the way for these historic outcasts of Christianity to be reconciled to the Christian community, and let Christ be the judge. As a community, we are supposed to be a 'safe house" and a "hospital" that cares for the ones society frowns upon. How can we bring them any hope, encouragement, or self-esteem if the first thing we do is ban them or harshly rebuke them? I think that's what 1BC is alluding to. I'd best let him/her speak for themselves.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

okay... I thought that was a topic that had been discussed and kicked around on various threads here for quite awhile...

[8thdaypriest]

Another good resource is a book titled "Healed Without Scars" by Evans. Helped me a lot.

[BobRyan]

I'm confused. I was under the impression the 1BC was not in the LGBT group.. I may have misunderstood.