Israel and Palestine

[Stan]

I think most of us here support Israel and the right to for him to exist in the location it is.

I just watched another video but the IDF (Israel defines forces) video about the trauma that is point on there. Very compelling.

One of the rings they said was Israelis were in exile in the first Century. AND the jews did not return until 1948.

Who gave them the land? What were the then citizens supposed to do?

When I spoke with the Palestinian Christians not so long ago, as was as a few Muslims, was the frustration to the children about being caged in a box.

IN retrospect, what could have been done better with the Palestinians?

Anyone have a good answer?

[Stan]

I do know several Palestinians accepted the New Israel, and are living peacefully outside the 'caged-in' areas.

A similar case, and this of course in Imaginary, What if Russia took back Alaska, what would the Americans in Alaska do?

Or is Hawaii went back to England?

[Sojourner]

This is a very good question and perhaps historically the crux of the problem.

I feel that the problem is WW2 and the suffering that happened at Aushwitz and other places. People quickly forget that these Jews that survived had no where to go and nothing to go back to. They also lived in a time where the hatred that people had for them whipped up by the Nazi regime had not subsided. This is against a backdrop of the fact that many world leaders knew what was happening to them and turned a blind eye to it and now had to address the situation.

It is not true to say that there were no Jews in Israel prior to 1948. There was an existing Jewish community in Israel and the fact was that many Refugees went there to them to be cared for. Think of the "Jewish Quarter" in the old city of Jerusalem. It was one of the few places in the world where they could go and be Jewish freely and not be targeted and persecuted. My understanding is that at the time many people thought that it was an appropriate response to send Jewish refugees to Israel, which they did.

Personally I can not see what else they could have done differently. War causes suffering and decisions then had to be made. There was not a wealth pool to send people anywhere they wished either. I have a relative who escaped Estonia during the Russian Invasion and spent over a year in a Refugee camp in Finland with one meal per day until they were given refugee places in Australia and there were many more that spent much longer in those camps after WW2.

There are a number of Israeli Arabs, Christian, Muslim, Druze and so forth who have the same rights as any Jewish person in Israel. Any Palestinian person can apply to be naturalized as an Israeli, the bulk of them choose not to.

Its also worth pointing out that when the war happened in 1949 the arab nations surrounding Israel expelled their indigenous Jewish populations to Israel. They took from them their homes and all that they had. These people then were settled in Israel as refugees quite legitimately. It would be appropriate for people born in those nations that are forced to live as "Palestinians" and not given citizenship in the nation of their birth to be accepted as citizens. Some people in these nations are third generation born there and are still being labelled as foreigners, not permitted to work and held in a perpetual state of poverty to continue to inflame violence into the situation.

[Stan]

Yes there were plenty of Jews living in Palestine prior to 1948, more than the Jewish quarters.

Not sure all the Jews were expelled from the ARAB nations, I have talked with Iranian Jews who eventually immigrated to North America.

I would not agree that they would have the same rights as Israelis, I do no think they can be elected, Muslims can not join the military, and I do not believe they can fly out of the airport.

[Sojourner]

Hi Stan, there are Arab parties in the Knesset and Arabs also serve in the IDF! I do not think that Arabs can be drafted, but am not sure on that one!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset

[phkrause]

Anyone have a good answer?

Not sure how good this will be for you, but here are 2 perspective's for you. The first is from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine

The next is from what I consider a better source:

http://www.aish.com/atr/History_of_Palestine.html

[joeb]

One of the things I've come across in my reading on this subject is that the Arabs living in Palestine before the modern state of Israel were in a society in which a very few people held title to the land and most of the Arabs were itinerant farmers and renters.  The landowners were basically slumlords in that they did not invest in the land, farms, and existing towns.  The took money out, but put no money back into their possessions.   When the Jews started moving back in the 1930's they bought the land the Arabs would sell them, often the worst land the Arabs had.  The Jews poured money, time, and great effort into developing the land the land they bought and made it into something worthwhile, something much more profitable than what they had purchased.  Then they reinvested their profits in buying and developing more land.  Soon they had the best land the most profitable farms.  This made the Arab tenants, and landowners, jealous as the watched the Jews prosper.  They, the landholders, could have done the same things themselves but they didn't have the ambition nor the desire to improve the lives of their own people.  All they wanted to do was drain them dry.  

 

The same thing can still be seen as the wealthy Arab nations surrounding Palestine could make the lives of the Palestinians much, much better but they don't.  They would rather live in palaces and great luxury than help their own people.   

[phkrause]

The Truth about Palestinians

Does history back up the claim that Palestinians are indigenous to the land of Israel? Promote peace for both peoples; not lies that drive them apart.

http://www.aish.com/jw/me/The-Truth-about-Palestinians.html