Distraction dilemma - The evils of music

[joshinator]

Evening gents, ladies.

 

I use to post here on and off yearly, cant remember my old username tho, not terribly concerned. Im aussie, I work as a nurse - I currently do not subscribe to several adventist beliefs despite being raised as one. issues like the one Im bringing up below make me want to stay as far away as possible from those who are easily mislead but nonetheless I go to church regularly because its what Im use to and the world doesnt appeal to me all that much. Aside from evil computer games and LOUD DRUMS. lold.

 

Anywhos  to my point.

Theres this dude - Mr Christian Berdahl - a SDA evengalist propogating some stuff about the evils of christian music.

if you haven't seen it here is a summary video that he preaches :

After watching it at first I didn't really care because it seemed to be some silly conservative propgranda that no one really care about. Turns out my GF's mum among other people I know are warped by this nonsense and they tell me "my eyes will open" to it all. I struggled at first to explain exactly what is wrong with the presentation and just recently discovered I was not the only one who is silly enough to believe it.

 

There is a website that I found which shares some of my exact thoughts on the presentation-  many of which I find hard to articulate in conversation - and I feel as though this merits discussion in relation to the agenda of Mr Berdahl and what he represents. To be frank with you all, I find this all to be a little frightening given the information on the website below. I mean, next thing we know he will be preaching against using colours to draw pictures stating how it can lead to demon posession. Quote a few unknown scientists with 0 peer reviewed evidence and BANG, thousands of easily mislead adventist will believe you(David Koresh version 2 anyone?). It hurts my head thinking about how silly people are AND WHY THE CHURCH IS SUPPORTING THIS fool.

This is the link here: The title of the website appears to be dodgy but rest assure it aint.
http://sevytalibancults.blogspot.com.au/p/christian-berdahl-and-shepherds-call.html

The main bits:

"Christian Berdahl claims only to follow the Bible. However, he hardly uses the Bible in his presentations."

"Christian Berdahl almost exclusively relies on selective scientific accounts, and then often not from peer-reviewed scientists but from fellow lay Christians."

"Christian Berdahl seems to suggest syncopation damages the brain and leads to demon possession. Whereas, the latest scientific evidence, as in a 2011 article published in the US Library of Medicine, “Cognitive and Affective Judgments of Syncopated Musical Themes”, suggests syncopation may in fact be good for the brain. There is no credible evidence that it leads to demon possession."

"Christian Berdahl passes himself off as some expert who travels the world (no doubt on the sale of his not inexpensive DVDs). However, he appears to have no relevant tertiary qualification in music, psychiatry, neurology or theology (LOL). He is in fact a theatre actor, and a relatively new Christian (having converted in 1995).  He appears to have hit on a subject that will give him a ‘cult following’ and, together with his concert music ministry, this confers on him a ‘celebrity’ status that is out of keeping with the true ideals of a Christ follower."

Thoughts?
 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I've never heard of Christian Berdahl.  He may be an "evangelist," and I might be mistaken, but I don't think he's on the Adventist Church payroll.

 

re: syncopation... if it's done well, it adds quite a bit to the music (think of the Scott Joplin music)... 

 

If Berdahl has a different opinion from yours, or mine, or anyone else's....so what?  Lots of people (here on C/A and elsewhere) have pet notions.  You can listen to them, but you don't have to accept or agree with them.  

[phkrause]

Well music does have its good and its bad points.

[joshinator]

If Berdahl has a different opinion from yours, or mine, or anyone else's....so what?  Lots of people (here on C/A and elsewhere) have pet notions.  You can listen to them, but you don't have to accept or agree with them.  

 

Traditionally I do no not concern myself with other peoples pet notions... the likes of veganism, women in leadership and dress codes come to mind and are equally debated.

But as far a Im aware there currently isn't any grossly unqualified sensationalist speakers who preach against these topics and passivly condemn those against their personal view. This spastic person says he has had to walk out of some SDA churches because the music was too extreme!! LOL Which mental illness does he suffer from?

I've never had a vegan tell me that my practice of vegetariansm is evil and that I should only practice veganism. I have however had an obnoxious pig preach in church and tell me that drums are evil and pretty much only music he approves of is suitable.

 

i don't care if he isn't on the church pay roll. He is clearly well approved as he speaks at many churches and his propganda plagues church libraries.

 

Excuse my rudeness and bluntless. This whole thing makes me exceptionally angry.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I imagine there are many churches where Berdahl would not be invited to speak.   Perhaps those who make the scheduling for your church agree with his philosophy and think that by having someone say something from the pulpit automatically makes the words true.  Sad that there are such "sheeple."

 

There have been a number of ideas that I've heard preached with which I vehemently disagree.  How I choose to relate to those ideas and the people who preach them is entirely up to me.  I could put on warpaint and blast the ideas to kingdom come (been there, done that), but did it help anything?  No.  Did it change the topics particular people preached?  No.  Did it make me irritable and b****y to be around?  Yep.  (not saying you're like that, but you *are* obviously ticked off about this guy preaching stuff you disagree with)

 

Another thought... perhaps Berdahl is still in the "immediate post conversion" stage of his Christian life, where he might be a bit overzealous and rigid in his views.  Not sure, since I don't know him and have never heard him speak.  

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

this is one of my favorite versions of How Great Thou Art.  Obviously, it would not pass muster with Mr. Berdahl.

 

[joshinator]

I imagine there are many churches where Berdahl would not be invited to speak.   Perhaps those who make the scheduling for your church agree with his philosophy and think that by having someone say something from the pulpit automatically makes the words true.  Sad that there are such "sheeple."

 

There have been a number of ideas that I've heard preached with which I vehemently disagree.  How I choose to relate to those ideas and the people who preach them is entirely up to me.  I could put on warpaint and blast the ideas to kingdom come (been there, done that), but did it help anything?  No.  Did it change the topics particular people preached?  No.  Did it make me irritable and b****y to be around?  Yep.  (not saying you're like that, but you *are* obviously ticked off about this guy preaching stuff you disagree with)

 

Another thought... perhaps Berdahl is still in the "immediate post conversion" stage of his Christian life, where he might be a bit overzealous and rigid in his views.  Not sure, since I don't know him and have never heard him speak.  

 

Thank-you for saying that - I definitly needed to hear that.

[TruthSeeker123]

Christian Berdahl is not the first person I heard speaking about the evils of music and syncopation. About 7-8 years ago, Ivor Myers spoke about "The Beast from the Abyss" and Brian Neumann (a South African musician) joined the chorus.

I agree with what rudywoofs said. Sometimes the best thing to do is not to fight them but leave them in God's hands. It's His church so He will weed the people out. He will also show you how true your beliefs are, who is right or wrong.

My advice to you is be a conscientious objector but don't allow your vehemence and disdain for their teaching to get personal. That puts people off and closes them up more than anything else. Why not encourage them to study the matter for themselves?

Truth will triumph in the end.

[JoeMo]

I once read a book called "Don't Sell Your Soul to Rock and Roll". I think it was by John Osbourn.  I didn't care for the message - being a contemporary worship leader that loves drums and electric guitar.  I believe there is no such thing as evil music.  Some of our favorite hymns use melodies from drinking songs.

There are, however, evil lyrics.  Sometimes I think that putting evil words to music allows some of those words to bypass conscious logic and travel directly to your subconscious brain.  Of course, the same thing happens with uplifting lyrics.  For example, I'm listening to "Oceans" by United right now.  It takes me to my happy place every time I hear it.

[Kevin H]

I agree that it could be the post conversion stage of his Christian life. Also, there are so many people who believe that the Gospel is the good news that the church and everyone else if going to hell in a hand basket.

 

People read 1 John that says "Love not the world, nor the things in the world" and grasp that text. They miss the next verse that tells us that what it is about the world that we are not to love is an attitude inside ourselves where we think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world.

 

In the communion chapter of the Desire of Ages Mrs. White says "There is in every person a disposition to esteem himself higher than his breather. To serve self, to seek the highest place and often this results in evil surmisings and bitterness of spirit." The Poet/Philosopher Eli Siegel said "There is in every person a disposition to think they are for themselves by making less of the outside world."

 

This is our sinful nature. This is what the sin problem is wrapped around, focusing for reasons to have contempt for the world around us.

 

John 3:16 says that for God so loved the world...

 

Desire of Ages page 641 says "When we love the world as Jesus has loved it then for us his mission is accomplished; we are fitted for heaven for we have heaven in our hearts."

 

It is so easy to use even good things for contempt. While it is good to hear ideas. Our job is to evaluate them and follow our conscience in our study of the Bible and the evidence.

 

I've noticed that the second commandment is frequently broken when it comes to music. We make a mental graven image of God where he only likes the music that I like and he does not like the music that I don't like. 

[Tom Wetmore]

I have noticed that there are a number of "ministries" very similar to this often by recent converts with an entertainment background. The zeal of recent converts is often admirable, but often quite misguided. There is a pendulum effect with many converts swinging from one extreme over to the other. And it is not too unusual for the pendulum to keep swinging from one extreme to another, sometimes on the same opposite side of a topic but more often from one fringe hobby horse idea to a other.

On the topic of music, there are a number of more balanced perspectives thankfully. A very helpful book to understand the neurological and psychological effects of music is "This Is Your Brain On Music: The Science of a Human Obsession" by Daniel J. Levitin. The author is uniquely qualified for the topic both as a musician and scientist. Here is his bio from the Amazon website:

"Daniel J. Levitin is the James McGill Professor of Psychology and Music at McGill University, Montreal, where he also holds appointments in the Program in Behavioural Neuroscience, The School of Computer Science, and the Faculty of Education. An award-winning teacher, he now adds best-selling author to his list of accomplishments as "This Is Your Brain on Music" and "The World in Six Songs" were both Top 10 best-sellers, and have been translated into 16 languages. Before becoming a neuroscientist, he worked as a session musician, sound engineer, and record producer working with artists such as Stevie Wonder and Blue Oyster Cult. He has published extensively in scientific journals as well as music magazines such as Grammy and Billboard. Recent musical performances include playing guitar and saxophone with Sting, Bobby McFerrin, Rosanne Cash, David Byrne, and Rodney Crowell."

[Sojourner]

I belong to Para Vista SDA here in South Australia, we have a "rock band" for praise and worship as do several other local SDA churches. If you believe that this speaker above speaks for the SDA, you are very much mistaken. 

 

Did the Rev Fred Phelps speak for all Baptists? Did Benny Hinn speak for all AOG people?