Church of Satan- Where do we draw the line?

[Gregory Matthews]

Joe, it is clearly your right to chose not to play here.

 

However, it should be said that you are doing exactly what you complain about us doing.

 

 

In your post, you mention child sacrifice.  I agreed that civil government had the right to prohibit that.  But, the main issue here was not about the murder of children.  No one proposed that civil government should allow such.

 

Pam was correct in her comment about the Asherah Pole.

 

Joeb posted to the effect that God allows people to chose to worship whatever (whomever) they chose to worship, to include Satan.  Then Joeb went on to propose that Christians should not do what God did not do.  Joeb was correct.

 

Your response was off target and unrelated to the issue.  Either you did not understand what was being written about or you simply did not want to discuss the central issue.  You could have responded to the issue.   But, you chose not to do so.  IOW, you chose to ignore the main argument.

 

As a matter of fact, it is often what you call "little parts" that challenge the main thesis.  I will illustrate: 

 

1)  Main thesis:  There are 365 days in a year.

 

2)  Little part:  No, there are slightly more than 365 days in a year and that is why we have leap years that have 366 days.

 

3) Little part:  No that is not exact.  That is why we make another adjustment every 100 years.

 

Like I said, Joe:  If you do not want to play here, where people can challenge any part of what you say, especially when they are correct, you have every right to go elsewhere.  IF you wish, you can play with people who never hold you accountable for what you say.  But, in this forum, you will be challenged and held accountable.   

[Tom Wetmore]

This is why I do not want to post here.  I lay out several Bible texts making the point that God has his people destroy satanic things. There are many additional text I could've used.

Then someone will pick one little part or another, ignoring the whole argument.

If you want to play that way, fine.

But I will not.

 

Context is important.  The context of much of the Bible and such directives is a theocracy.  The US is not a theocracy.  Not even a Christian nation in the sense of one religious POV allowed and no other.  (The great diversity within Christianity hardly allows sufficient consensus to mandate religious views...)  The concept of religious freedom is vital to life in the US and a foundation of our government.  That requires considerable religious tolerance, even of Satanism.  What can be limited is religious practice that goes against established public policy and infringes on the rights and freedoms of others.  So a religion that requires public stoning of those caught in adultery  (Biblical, by the way) would be against public policy, for a variety of reasons.

 

But perhaps more disturbing is one thing you posted that seems to advocate that we as God's people should "destroy satanic things".  That can be a rather subjective line to draw.  A key example is a very recent lecture given against WO.  The basic premise was that WO is the result of feminism and that feminism is the result of Spiritualism, in other words satanic in origin.  The condemnation was made clear that those advocating WO were on very dangerous ground and operating under satanic influences. If those taking that point of view subscribed to what I assume you are suggesting, they would be justified in destroying those satanic things associate with WO, including those who are are feminists, supporters of WO and anything that is used in support of either.

[Joe_in_RP]

>you posted that seems to advocate that we as God's people should "destroy satanic things"

 

Are you putting words in my mouth?

I posted a bible text. The previous post said that the bible does not show God working though force. I showed one of many instances. You may not like that. But that's what the bible says.

 

I am asking a question, and I am not satisfied with the answer "do nothing".

 

Some may be offended by that. The "do nothing" idea has been popular for some time.

 

There are many preachers (Non SDA) who are saying this do nothing has caused the problem to get worse. There are many who say that God's judgements are falling on America because of the tolerance for evil.

 

So I am still looking for an alternative to do nothing.

[JoeMo]

Joe_in_RP,

If you want to do something to fight satanic influence, shine your light into the darkness.  By your life and actions, show people that Jesus has more to offer than satan.  Take Jesus out of the protective, defensive safety of the church into the front lines.  If you want to take the fight to satan, go for it.  You want the church to do something - YOU are the church.  Start a Bible study, feed and clothe the homeless.  Approach people who need support and pray for them.  Intercede for those who are unable to pray for themselves.  God's best weapons are love and compassion.  Use them liberally. 

[LifeHiscost]

  Intercede for those who are unable to pray for themselves.

Having a family lost many years ago, at least partially as a result of my own misapplication and misapprehension of practical application of the Word, made the above statement very meaningful to me. Those prayers have been continued as a result of the loss, which has led to an outgrowth of dependance on promises of God, instead of reaching a state of righteousness before being able rest in the fulfillment of His Word.

 

23"Can the Ethiopian change his skin Or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good Who are accustomed to doing evil.  Jeremiah 13

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[joeb]

Really

What about this:

 

Bible VersionsNIV2 Kings2 Kings 232 Kings 23:6-16

2 Kings 23:8..16 (New International Version)

 

 

8 Josiah brought all the priests from the towns of Judah and desecrated the high places, from Geba to Beersheba, where the priests had burned incense. He broke down the shrines at the gates--at the entrance to the Gate of Joshua, the city governor, which is on the left of the city gate. 

 

10 He desecrated Topheth which was in the Valley of Ben Hinnom so no one could use it to sacrifice his son or daughter in the fire to Molech.

 

 

15 Even the altar at Bethel, the high place made by Jeroboam son of Nebat, who had caused Israel to sin--even that altar and high place he demolished. He burned the high place and ground it to powder, and burned the Asherah pole also.

 

16 Then Josiah looked around, and when he saw the tombs that were there on the hillside, he had the bones removed from them and burned on the altar to defile it, in accordance with the word of the LORD proclaimed by the man of God who foretold these things.

Even though Israel had a king at the time this was written it was still basically a theocracy.  The nation was dedicated to God, and explicitly formed by God.  All that went away at the cross.   

 

Do you propose we adopt something like Sharia law and kill anyone who breaks it such as Islam says should happen?  Should we be cutting off the hands of thieves?  Should we mandate the subjection of women?  Should we have a priesthood like the Israelites who run the government?  Should we take over the government and force our will on all other people?  

 

Do you really think you live in a theocracy?  

[joeb]

>you posted that seems to advocate that we as God's people should "destroy satanic things"

 

Are you putting words in my mouth?

I posted a bible text. The previous post said that the bible does not show God working though force. I showed one of many instances. You may not like that. But that's what the bible says.

 

I am asking a question, and I am not satisfied with the answer "do nothing".

 

Some may be offended by that. The "do nothing" idea has been popular for some time.

 

There are many preachers (Non SDA) who are saying this do nothing has caused the problem to get worse. There are many who say that God's judgements are falling on America because of the tolerance for evil.

 

So I am still looking for an alternative to do nothing.

Interesting.  So you believe Christ took a "do nothing" approach to the sinfulness of the government under which He lived.  I say that for I can see no other reason for the statement you made as I plainly stated that we are to become as much like Christ as possible through the closeness of our association with Him.  You seem to believe that becoming like Christ is "doing nothing"....

[Joe_in_RP]

>Do you propose we adopt something like Sharia law and kill anyone who breaks it such as Islam says should happen?

 

I am not proposing any specific action. I'm trying to stimulate discussion about other ideas. I know this is difficult for people. When someone challenges the official position, people want to attack.

 

People are conditioned by the media to pick to extremes, Then argue. It's either one or the other.

 

There are a range of possible ideas to combat this attack on Christianity.

[Tom Wetmore]

You are not being clear in stimulating other ideas. You have posted as examples of what to do that narrow the scope of the discussion and imply a direction to which you are driving the discussion. It seems to indicate what you think should be done. Anyone who has responded has seen this and fairly assumes you are suggesting or advocating an approach as is described in the OT. If you are not, then why post only what you have posted?

Just be out with it. Tell us what you think should be done.

[Joe_in_RP]

I give up. Its hopeless.

[Gregory Matthews]

Joe, you often post in a context where a reasonable person would think that you are advocating a specific point.  Then when one responds to that point, you suggest that they are putting words in your mouth, or some similar comment.  In any case, you appear to be offended by the response.

 

It is your right, and choice, to be offended if that is how you wish to respond.

 

In any case, probably people here think that it is hopeless to dialogue with you.  You seem to acknowledge that.

[joeb]

>Do you propose we adopt something like Sharia law and kill anyone who breaks it such as Islam says should happen?

 

I am not proposing any specific action. I'm trying to stimulate discussion about other ideas. I know this is difficult for people. When someone challenges the official position, people want to attack.

 

People are conditioned by the media to pick to extremes, Then argue. It's either one or the other.

 

There are a range of possible ideas to combat this attack on Christianity.

Really?  You think living the same way Christ did is just a fear of challenging the "official position"?  How? I've always seen becoming like Christ as the goal of being Christian, the reason for being one, if you will.  You go in your next sentence to basically say agreeing with the "official position" is to pick an extreme.  

 

You're all over the place.  Middle of the road(official church position) is extreme.  It's also "doing nothing", however, doing nothing about a situation is almost always a sign of apathy.   

 

I'm trying to understand what you're saying, but what you're saying doesn't make sense to me.  Try again to explain yourself and maybe I'll be able to understand where you're coming from.