Does the new testament supersede the old testament?

[Okieracing]

Since I am an SDA I have been trying to convince some of my Sunday church friends that they should observe the Sabbath because the bible says so as indicated in the follow link.

 

http://www.thechurchesofgod.com/What%20The%20Bible%20Teaches%20About%20Sunday.htm

 

Now in trying to be diligent in proving my case I have been doing more reading and researching so I could reply to anything they would be able to come up with. Well in doing so I found the follow two links.

 

 

http://carm.org/religious-movements/seventh-day-adventism/does-bible-allow-christians-worship-sunday

 

http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_OldTestamentLaw.htm

 

So needless to say I am really confused now. So does the new testament supersede the old testament? Do I continue my crusade to get my friends to follow the Sabbath? Should I drop it because they are right and let them continue worshiping on Sundays? I am lost and confused.

Thank you for your help.

[Lauralea]

Here is some more information about Sabbath and Sunday

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/free-resources/article-library/id/928/100-amazing-facts-about-the-sabbath-and-sunday

There are also about 8 more links on the right.

There is no Bible text that changed Sabbath to Sunday. Without such, how can it be changed, and even then, it is part of the 10 commandments. God does not change. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

[Okieracing]

Lauralea

 

Thank you for you insight and the link you sent. I agree with you on your quote.

 

"There is no Bible text that changed Sabbath to Sunday. Without such, how can it be changed, and even then, it is part of the 10 commandments. God does not change. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law not abolish it."

This is why I have been trying to change my friends mind on about keeping the Sabbath. 

 

How can the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry say that there are only 9 of the 10 commandments in the NT?

 

First of all, of the 10 commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, only 9 of them were restated in the New Testament. (Six in Matt. 19:18, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, honor parents, and worshiping God; Rom. 13:9, coveting. Worshiping God properly covers the first three commandments) The one that was not reaffirmed was the one about the Sabbath. Instead, Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8).

 

This is part of the reason I am confused.

 

Another friend of mine uses this as the reasoning as to why he can worship on Sunday's 

 

Acts 20:7 NIV

On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. 

 

Acts 16:31NIV

They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved – you and your household." 

 

He is saying that they ate and worshiped on the first day of the week (Sunday) and if you believe in Acts 6:31 you will be saved. So it is ok to worship on Sunday. Maybe I don't know enough about the Bible to try to convince my friends that they should observe the Sabbath and I should keep my mouth closed?

[phkrause]

I don't see anywhere in that verse that says anything about worshiping!! Seems to me that all they did was together to before Paul had to go on to where ever he was going. I would read before and after this verse to get some more context before deciding that they got together to worship.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

not sure if I would try and "convince" someone that they are *worshipping* on the wrong day... while there's nothing in the Bible that changed the Sabbath to Sunday, neither is there any prohibition of worshipping on Sunday.  ("Worshipping God" shouldn't be limited to a specific day.)

 

That said, the fact that God saw the Sabbath as important enough to include in the 10 Commandments should make it apparent that it was *His* idea to have an official day of worship set aside - and He declared it to be "the 7th day"....

 

If it was me, I would simply state my reasons for believing in the Sabbath, and not argue about it.  Bible-thumping is never a good idea...

[Okieracing]

pkrause

 

"I don't see anywhere in that verse that says anything about worshiping!! Seems to me that all they did was together to before Paul had to go on to where ever he was going. I would read before and after this verse to get some more context before deciding that they got together to worship."

 

I agree I couldn't see where he was getting that from either then when I was reading Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry this is what they indicated it as meaning. 

 

The first day of the week is Sunday and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday, though it does not necessitate it. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching/teaching). Additionally, Luke included the Roman system as well as the Jewish system of counting days.  The Jewish system was sundown to sundown.  But Luke also used the Roman system: midnight to midnight (Luke 11:5; Acts 16:25; 20:7; 27:27). This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not exclusively used by Luke.

 

So I wonder if that is how he is taking it also?

[Okieracing]

rudwoofs

 

 ("Worshipping God" shouldn't be limited to a specific day.)

 

​I would never suggest to my friends or any one else to worship on just a specific day. I think we should worship each and every day. I never tell my friends or anyone else they are wrong for worshiping on Sundays either. What I try to convince them of is that the Sabbath is the day of rest not Sunday. According to what the Bible tells me. If you were to follow the Sabbath you would rest, gather and worship the Lord on the Sabbath not Sunday. As an SDA and a follower of God am I not asked to go out and speak the word of the Lord? If this is not what I should be doing then please tell me now and I will stop what I am doing. According to: 

 

Deuteronomy 4:2

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

 

With my laymen terms of thinking, if a person worships on Sunday are they not taking away from the word of the Lord? Again if this is wrong please tell me now and I will stop what I am doing.

 

Thank you for your help.

[Lauralea]

I agree with you that they are taking away from the word of the Lord if they deliberately turn from it. It is also true Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables, because they were not ready for many of the truths he had for them. I guess I would approach it prayerfully, to try to show them things that could be a blessing to them. If it reaches the point of discussions that generate more heat then light, it will be unlikely to convince them in that way, so another approach might be to share more about the health message or your relationship with Jesus ,l then either bring the Sabbath up at a later point, or invite them to a prophecy series your church is holding later, because when they see a series of truths that are less controversial presented, then the Sabbath truth, they may be more ready to accept it. You could also invite them to a small group Bible study, but you would want to include other Adventists who were tactful but well versed in the word so that you could together present the truth, but start with other topics.

[Gail]

You may have a hard time convincing someone that doesn't want to be convinced... The Holy Spirit has been working on your heart regarding this. As Pam has suggested, simply state your reasons and hold fast to what you have learned.

When you begin to see the Bible as a whole then you will see Jesus all through the Old Testament as well as in the New. You will see more and more how God doesn't change. The Bible will have a harmony you never knew was there. I wish you God's blessings as you seek to follow Him more closely :)

[Gregory Matthews]

Sounds to me like you started off with the Sabbath.   Why?

 

Why not first build a common relationship of beliefs?

[Okieracing]

Lauralea & Gregory

 

One of my friends we have know each other for over 2 years. We have oatmeal on our morning break at work when we can and we talk about religion. We are both in agreement on just about every aspect except day.

My other friend we have known each other for over a year. We ride van pool together and we talk about religion a lot also. Again we agree on just about every aspects except day. 

 

We all three have invited each other to our churches. Partly due to the fact I live 80 miles from work and one friend lives another 20 miles from work. We have not made it to each others church or done bible studies together besides what we already do. The other friend we live over forty miles apart and again we have not made it to each others church or bible studies with each other.

 

At this point I will have to agree with Gail. I may have a hard time convincing them what I feel is the Sabbath. I will drop it for now and continue enjoying their company and our fellowship as we have it now. 

Thanks everyone for you help and input.

[Okieracing]

Now to get back to my original question. Does the new testament supersede the old testament? I know we do do sacrifices Leviticus 4:35 or give 10 percent of our livestock, crops and things to the churches Leviticus 27:30-33. I know we don't physically die for not keeping the Sabbath Exodus 31:14-15. I know that we do not have to do some of these thing because Jesus sacrificed his life for us and our sins. His sacrifice is what makes that possible. So where is that line drawn at as to what we follow from the old testament and what we follow in the new testament? Or how do we follow both? 

[Gail]

You may have to do a bit of study

Why do the Jews no longer sacrifice at the temple? (Or at least I don't think they do) It doesn't have to do with the NT vs the OT.

The things that typified Jesus from the OT were fulfilled through Him. Some of the laws have to do with the fact that old time Israel had God as its leader. Then it became like the other nations, having a worldly leader and worldly laws.

Instead of sticking to the moral guidelines as set down and preserved through the Tanakh, they expounded on them via the Mishnah, the Talmuds and the Midrash. By the time Jesus came on the scene He astounded the people because He taught from the Old Testament. He told the hearers that they had made nought of God's commandments by the commandments of men. They totally missed seeing who He was. If they had stuck to the OT only, who knows- they may have recognised Him as the Messiah. Even a quick read of the NT shows you how well-versed the typical Jew was in Scripture.

The fact that Jesus quoted profusely from the OT shows you that it was an important source of truth to our Saviour. It is not that one is better than the other. It is more like a continuation.

[LifeHiscost]

You may have to do a bit of study

The fact that Jesus quoted profusely from the OT shows you that it was an important source of truth to our Saviour. It is not that one is better than the other. It is more like a continuation.

Only one who is content to live without Jesus as Lord can fail to see the (Truth) rightful logic in the statement above.

 

"But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'" Luke 16

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

In the Old Testament, Jesus was concealed in parables and rituals.  The New Testament is revealed in the flesh. When Paul says "all scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness" in 2 Timothy 3:16, the only scripture they had was OT.  Evidently, Paul still found the OT important.

[Lauralea]

Hi Okieracing God writes the 10 Commandments in our hearts in the New Covenant. Some of the laws of the Old Testament are principles because love worketh no ill to his neighbor. Other things we can learn from but are symbolic.  The ceremonial law of ritual sacrifices is no longer binding on us, although we can learn from the symbopls and ceremonies, especially the Sanctuary and the day of Atonement in the light of the time prophecies of Daniel. Hope this helps. Maybhe your friends would like some SDA web sites like some of our tv or radio sites, or to study about the prophecies in Daniel at a site online.

http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/media/e/2057/t/the-millennial-man.aspx

[Gerr]

That's like asking, does the life of Jesus supersede His birth?  His death supersede His life?  And the resurrection His death?

[JoeMo]

Sounds to me like you started off with the Sabbath.   Why?

 

Why not first build a common relationship of beliefs?

For some reason, the "system won't let me "like" this.  But I do; and agree with it 100%.  The primary condition for salvation is an intimate relationship with the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit convicts us of Truth.

 

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." (John 16:13)

 

Our job is to witness about the goodness of God and what He has done for us; not to corner others into believing our version of the Law.  How many of us really "keep" the Sabbath the way ancient Israel did (if they even did it well enough)?  How many of us that "keep" the Sabbath impeccably keep the other 9 Commandments and those remnants of the Mosaic Law which SDA's have chosen to enforce on each other?  My guess - none of us.  That makes us just as "lost" as anyone else.  Sabbath is not the sole saving truth.

 

Galatians 5:4 says "You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."  When we fall from grace, where to we fall?  Right into the Law.  The OT symbol for this is the mercy seat covering the tablets of stone within the Ark of the Covenant.  Could it be that even then, God wanted us to see His mercy rather than His Law?

[LifeHiscost]

God wanted us to see His mercy rather than His Law?

Please describe the particular law(s) of the original ten, given to Moses on the mount, written by God's finger without interference from men, that doesn't offer mercy as well as love to man, if followed according to what He asks.

 

27"The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28"And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?' 29"But he said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.…Matt 13

 

…7Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. 8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace...Hebrews 13

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

LHC asks,

"Please describe the particular law(s) of the original ten, given to Moses on the mount, written by God's finger without interference from men, that doesn't offer mercy as well as love to man, if followed according to what He asks."

 

The law show no mercy whatsoever; it shows us what sin is.  Those who perfectly follow the law as stated need no mercy.  Problem is, no ever followed (or will follow) the law perfectly except Christ this side of the Kingdom; so we all need mercy and forgiveness.  That only comes through grace and faith.

[LifeHiscost]

LHC asks,

"Please describe the particular law(s) of the original ten, given to Moses on the mount, written by God's finger without interference from men, that doesn't offer mercy as well as love to man, if followed according to what He asks."

 

The law show no mercy whatsoever; it shows us what sin is.  Those who perfectly follow the law as stated need no mercy.  Problem is, no ever followed (or will follow) the law perfectly except Christ this side of the Kingdom; so we all need mercy and forgiveness.  That only comes through grace and faith.

 

 

See my last answer on....

in Origins

 

Every time I come into proximity and don't threaten them with death, or steal their stuff, or go to bed with their wife or girlfriend, or hungrily look at their new car with the intent of surreptitiously removing it from their use of it, etc., etc., with the object of bringing glory to God and peace to my neighbor I fulfill these two Laws;

 

…26And He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" 27And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 28And He said to him, "You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."…Luke 10 emphasis theirs' LHC

 

40"On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."...Matt22

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!