Lauralea Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I found this encouraging and to be modeled on the Biblical model of resolving theological differences within the church. http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/mark-finley-offers-5-steps-for-resolving-disunity-on-women%E2%80%99s-ordination#.VEtAfz_O5eY.facebook Johann and LifeHiscost 2 Quote Behold what manner of love the Father hath given unto us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 25, 2014 Members Share Posted October 25, 2014 Pastor Finley is quite a guy, a Christians Christian. The problem I see in this WO issue, is each side seems to think the other side is not sincere. For me I see all the Pastors, evangelists, Ministers, etc., are all sincere, there is no right or wrong in this issue. Kevin H and Lauralea 2 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Pastor Finley is quite a guy, a Christians Christian. The problem I see in this WO issue, is each side seems to think the other side is not sincere. For me I see all the Pastors, evangelists, Ministers, etc., are all sincere, there is no right or wrong in this issue. So as long as one is sincere, they cannot be wrong? If that's the case then there will be a lot of unrepentant Satan worshipers, murderers, pedophiles, etc. who are sincere in their beliefs, and are not wrong because of their sincerity, and will be in heaven because they were sincere. I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hi, Richard! Nice to see you today! Woody 1 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 satan is very sincere with his work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauralea Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 I appreciate Elder Finley's position. He says we should focus on mission. He is forbearing to those who have a different viewpoint. Personally, I find his viewpoint worthy of emulation, and one we will need if we intend to press forward with the movement of the church. Quote Behold what manner of love the Father hath given unto us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Pastor Finley is quite a guy, a Christians Christian. The problem I see in this WO issue, is each side seems to think the other side is not sincere. For me I see all the Pastors, evangelists, Ministers, etc., are all sincere, there is no right or wrong in this issue. Agree! Of course there are those who have posted who seem more comfortable with trying to negate you. That is where the issue lies.....some wish to take the good and make it appear to be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 So as long as one is sincere, they cannot be wrong? If that's the case then there will be a lot of unrepentant Satan worshipers, murderers, pedophiles, etc. who are sincere in their beliefs, and are not wrong because of their sincerity, and will be in heaven because they were sincere. I don't think so. So good to see you Richard. But have to disagree with you brother. I do believe that God knows the heart. We have no way of knowing whom He will deem as fit. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted October 26, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 26, 2014 There is definitely a truth and definitely a right side. However the unassuming nature of God does not force us to the correct side. It is by discussion, disagreement leading us to deeper Bible Study that will lead to conclusions so that we are blessed in that flesh and blood does not tell us but the Holy Spirit. The problem here is that one group tends to have a picture that they are defending the Bible and the other side is just trying to be liberals and explain the "Proof" texts as "cultural biased" and thus not to be followed. What they fail to recognize is that both groups are trying to be fair to the Bible. This is different than being "Sincere." The not willing to accept this keeps the two sides from really listening to each other, from blinding themselves to Biblical arguments for the other view and from examining their view in light of this other information. Woody, Johann, Lauralea and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Excellent comments Kevin. I happen to personally believe that any church who believes as our church does .... in Salvation by Faith .... that it can rightly be called a 'liberal' church. Any church that believes in legalism as in keeping the commandments in order to obtain salvation .... I would classify as conservative. Our denomination is not a legalist church. However .... there are legalist churches in our denomination. So .... we are blessed to be able to take our pick. Do we want to attend a conservative church or a liberal church. I get tired of legalism at times and need some fresh air before returning to conservative churches. I can do it on occasions but it is draining. Johann 1 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 26, 2014 Pastor Finley is quite a guy, a Christians Christian. The problem I see in this WO issue, is each side seems to think the other side is not sincere. For me I see all the Pastors, evangelists, Ministers, etc., are all sincere, there is no right or wrong in this issue. I think some here have missed your point. I did not understand you to be saying that all you need is sincerity. But rather that the problem is the suspicion of the other side as not having proper Chrisitan motives, for example hat the other side is not sincere in their POV. And I also read your comment to say that you are not questioning the motives, or sincerity, of anyone and by doing so one can reasonable conclude that there is room for differences of interpretation and on this because the evidence does not support a firm conclusion one way or the other. That really was the outcome of the TOSC. No consensus could be reached. No clearly prevailing right or wrong conclusion could be reached that could be agreed upon by all. The objective at this point is how do we move forward. The growing sense is that we must respect these differences as valid and allowable. That this is not something that should divide us. Just as the NT church recognized that they could all move forward together in unity, allowing a divergence of practice between the Jewish and Gentile believers on a number of key points, most significantly the Jewish practice of circumcision. It was well founded and established by Jewish history, culture and Scripture, but not essential for the faith and should not be imposed on the Gentiles. Johann, Lauralea, Woody and 2 others 5 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 26, 2014 Members Share Posted October 26, 2014 Agree! Of course there are those who have posted who seem more comfortable with trying to negate you. That is where the issue lies.....some wish to take the good and make it appear to be bad. Great point CoAspen Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted October 26, 2014 Members Share Posted October 26, 2014 I think some here have missed your point. I did not understand you to be saying that all you need is sincerity. But rather that the problem is the suspicion of the other side as not having proper Chrisitan motives, for example that the other side is not sincere in their POV. And I also read your comment to say that you are not questioning the motives, or sincerity, of anyone and by doing so one can reasonable conclude that there is room for differences of interpretation and on this because the evidence does not support a firm conclusion one way or the other. That really was the outcome of the TOSC. No consensus could be reached. No clearly prevailing right or wrong conclusion could be reached that could be agreed upon by all. The objective at this point is how do we move forward. The growing sense is that we must respect these differences as valid and allowable. That this is not something that should divide us. Just as the NT church recognized that they could all move forward together in unity, allowing a divergence of practice between the Jewish and Gentile believers on a number of key points, most significantly the Jewish practice of circumcision. It was well founded and established by Jewish history, culture and Scripture, but not essential for the faith and should not be imposed on the Gentiles. Exactly Tom. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted October 27, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 27, 2014 Excellent comments Kevin. I happen to personally believe that any church who believes as our church does .... in Salvation by Faith .... that it can rightly be called a 'liberal' church. Any church that believes in legalism as in keeping the commandments in order to obtain salvation .... I would classify as conservative. Our denomination is not a legalist church. However .... there are legalist churches in our denomination. So .... we are blessed to be able to take our pick. Do we want to attend a conservative church or a liberal church. I get tired of legalism at times and need some fresh air before returning to conservative churches. I can do it on occasions but it is draining. i will mull on this a bit, and surmise a bit. the legalist have a great investment in being right, and they will be saved because they are right. and on the wo issue they are right. and to have someone like Finley open neutral ground is not right for them. they will be courteous, and talk behind closed doors in their own circles about the fall of the sda churches, and how entire churches will be lost... as made known in the E White writings... and it never occurs that it is the Spirit of self righteousness that will cause the light to go out from entire congregations. it was this same spirit that turned on Jesus. they will bear with this great "apostasy" because they believe the church will seem about to fall but will make it to the end, so they will never leave the church. this is not unity. it is Jesus who is right. only Jesus. In Jesus their is no disunity. Tom Wetmore, Johann and Kevin H 3 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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