Guest Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Attempting to enlarge the scope ..... What are the larger issues, as far as approaches and methods, that can be gleaned form the study of this lesson which dwells on confrontion and tough talk by LOVE PERSONIFIED. Is there anything beyond the individual/personal application of the theme of this lesson? Matt 23 has some clues...look at the specific points made by Jesus and notice who is the intended audience. What is the contemporary significance/application of vs 13 and 15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Quote: TF, I believe Jesus would consider it a privilege to have a one on one conversation with you. JimBob, !!!! That is simultaneously the sweetest, the strangest, and the most terrifying thing anyone has ever said to me in my life. I confess I am completely and utterly mystified by it!!! Happy Sabbath anyway. Taint Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Quote: Satan wants us to fail, to be hard on ourselves, and the longer he can keep us in this state, the easier time he has dragging us off into utter darkness. Busybob - you are so right about that. I have had so many ample experiences to show me that this is indeed the case; WHY, then, is this the most difficult thing to remember?? No, more to the point, what's the cure for this tendency? Sometimes I wonder if maybe the issue is that while I know this to be the case -- that Satan wants us to be hard on myself, to be consumed with guilt and misery over my sin, etc. -- I don't really believe it because some part of me is convinced that (a) God wants me to take my sin seriously (true, He does); but more to the point, ( if I don't let myself suffer the pain of self-loathing, guilt, remorse, etc. then I will not be taking my sinfulness seriously. Yet time and again I find that this either makes me more hardened and apathetic about sin -- NOT more sensitive or concerned about it -- or else the pain of it is so great that it weakens me and weakens my resolve, makes me apathetic, tuned out, depressed, flat, passive, weak. Ironically, the guilt and pain make it easier to sin again rather than harder -- but by the same token also makes it more painful to do so!! Oh wretched creature that I am!! How can I be delivered from this imprisonment? (This stuff isn't metaphor with me, it is very literal.) Quote: I find the verse John 3:16 very encouraging when I am off in this gray area. God has sent His Only Son to save the likes of us, ungratful, disrespectful, promise breaking, back-biting, tithe stealing, individuals such as we are. I really like Romans 5:6-11 too. Quote: I remember when I had fallen through the cracks in the floor because of my past drug and alcohol addictions. I was wanted, looked for and followed everywhere I went. I was rejected by family and friends, and angry at everyone and everything. Then my health went south on me and I almost died, not once but three times due to dirty drugs. What it really was is that I had allowed satan to move into my life totally unrestricted. It was satan that was going to allow me to expire, to wait in darkness for the final Judgement. While setting in a chair one day 7 years ago and while fighting an infection that was consuming me, I ask Jesus into my heart and giving my will into His. That it was from that moment to date that my life has been changing. I too still find those days where I doubt and question and slide, and then I see or hear God's sweet words calling me home. I have from time to time prayed to give myself back to Christ and ask Him back into my heart too. Some days I think I feel Him near, think I feel His peace, but other days I just feel like plain old nothing, same-old same-old. I'm not even sure anymore what I'm supposed to be doing and more than anything I long for the sense of dedication, devotion, commitment and direction I had when I was 16 and first encountered Him (before everything went wrong on me). It's like that article CGMedley posted a link to in this week's Review, about "breaking the myth of the secular." I don't just want my life to change in a compartmentalized way but in totality. I want every moment of my life to be suffused with meaning and purpose from on high, constant communion and contact with Him, awareness of His presence, the Hearing of His Voice, the Seeing of His Vision. I want to be swallowed by Him, consumed by His holy fire, speaking His will and word. I don't want anything else. I don't even want a "life for myself" or a "life of my own" or whatever that nonsense is. I never have, though for a long time I was deceived and believed I could have fulfillment of my spiritual passions through other means, through means that probably do not originate in the True and Living God. Quote: Happy Sabbath and God Bless! You too ... please keep me in your prayers ... Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlene Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I rarely visit Town Hall and did not know this thread was here but, have read it with interest. I really like teaching a Sabbath School class and when I am in my home church (rarely)I do get the privilidge from time to time. Our class discussions are not boring and when there is a teacher who brings illustrations and story examples into the lesson it certainly adds to the interest and discussion. I really like it when highlights from the lesson are discussed to make it interesting and worthwhile and then see how the biblical principles can be applied to our lives today, otherwise Bible study is pointless. As someone previously mentioned, the best Sabbath School class is the small group, a place where people can know and encourage one another. This is where learning and Spiritual growth really takes place. It has surprised me that throughout this thread only the class teacher has been mentioned. What about the class leader? Do none of our classes have a class leader? The person who is responsible for the care of the members, the person to lead the fellowship life of the class? The person who coordinates the class community outreach, prayer, etc. Seems to me they are very instrumental in making the class interesting. Yes, the teacher, the one who leads the Bible study, is central to the class, but the class is also the place where fellowhsip and community outreach takes place. Ellen White says..(I have to put this one in here! I don't have the direct quote with me at home here. Sorry.)"The Sabbath School is intended to enlarge the church." How many people have been lead to Christ because of our Sabbath School/class? Looking at my Sabbath School, I'm afraid that I have to say..none.(Other than our children and don't get me wrong, they are very, very important. I am of course, referring to other adults.) So, what is the Sabbath School class for? Just the study of God's Word? Definitely to help us grow spiritually but, often the most spiritual growth takes place when we reach out and share Jesus with others. The goal in our conference this year is: "Every Sabbath School class a community outreach project in 2004!" A community outreach project can be: a. The usual - giving out literature or giving Bible studies. b. A float in the 1st of July parade. c. Adopt a grandparent in a home around the church (for children's class) d. Soup for the homeless. We are challenging them to be creative. The skies the limit. Though we may not see all those we come in contact with coming to Sabbath School we are in the business of being a friend and winning friends for God. That is Sabbath School. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted December 20, 2003 Administrators Share Posted December 20, 2003 Never been to Townhall? For shame, Darlene!!! Yes, of course you are right. A small group gives a place where members can gain a feeling of belonging and accountability Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators LynnDel Posted December 20, 2003 Moderators Share Posted December 20, 2003 A class leader, in addition to a class teacher, is great idea, Darlene! I've never heard of it before, but will be suggesting it immediately at my church. LynnDel Quote LD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Quote: , but the class is also the place where fellowhsip and community outreach takes place. Ellen White says..(I have to put this one in here! I don't have the direct quote with me at home here. Sorry.)"The Sabbath School is intended to enlarge the church." How many people have been lead to Christ because of our Sabbath School/class? Looking at my Sabbath School, I'm afraid that I have to say..none.(Other than our children and don't get me wrong, they are very, very important. I am of course, referring to other adults.) So, what is the Sabbath School class for? Just the study of God's Word? Definitely to help us grow spiritually but, often the most spiritual growth takes place when we reach out and share Jesus with others. The goal in our conference this year is: "Every Sabbath School class a community outreach project in 2004!" A community outreach project can be: a. The usual - giving out literature or giving Bible studies. b. A float in the 1st of July parade. c. Adopt a grandparent in a home around the church (for children's class) d. Soup for the homeless. We are challenging them to be creative. The skies the limit. Though we may not see all those we come in contact with coming to Sabbath School we are in the business of being a friend and winning friends for God. That is Sabbath School. Thank you for the input. This is what happens in institutional entropy. The purpose and meaning of activities gets lost. The SS class just become the lay portion of the sabbath theological therapy session where the members are fed non fat dry milk and their hurt egos stroked. This is what happens when the leaders lose the vision and don't supervise. If one really had the proper perspective and sensitivity to the worth of souls to God..they would understand that this neglect is WORSE THAN CRIMINAL!!! When one has taken advantage of the spiritual eyesalve..they see the significance and validity of Matt 23 for the church leadership for today. They understand the message which says.. you blind, foolish , hypocrites ...repent of your selfish, wicked, adulterous lifestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I was thinking...those of you who are sensitive to the mediocre state of "playing church"...and "warming pews" You have opportunity to launch a revival and a reformation in your local church with the sabbath school. I don't expect much from a pastor or church board which is usually satisfied if the problem level is at a minimum and has no outreach or spiritual vision of proper teaching methods.. Many out there are contaminated with the usual approaches and methods.. The mental state is just like the Sunday keeper... Ask them why they keep Sunday... "Well, we always did it that way.." Why do you teach, lead sabbath school the way you do? "Well, we always did it that way" Heads up ,, there might be no progress in your endeavors..due to the wickedness, apathy, selfishness, or fear of those you assocoiate with at church..so be careful of your expectations. Gideon started with 32,000 and ended up with 300 ________ Now, how do you know what to do to improve things? Well a good starting place is this thread. 1. Problem - lack of scripture exposure in SS school 2. Lack of introducing outreach thoughts in each lesson 3. Lack of Neh 8:8 type of deep study in the lesson 4. Lack of clear and relevant contemporary application of the lesson.. What is God calling you to do for His cause, mission, and kingdom for 2004??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted December 20, 2003 Administrators Share Posted December 20, 2003 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Well a good starting place is this thread. 1. Problem - lack of scripture exposure in SS school 2. Lack of introducing outreach thoughts in each lesson 3. Lack of Neh 8:8 type of deep study in the lesson 4. Lack of clear and relevant contemporary application of the lesson.. What is God calling you to do for His cause, mission, and kingdom for 2004??? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Well, here is one man who has a vision!!! Praise the Lord! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted December 20, 2003 Moderators Share Posted December 20, 2003 Tainted. Just as a psychologist friend of mine used to say, in marriage counseling: "Love is something you do -- not something you feel. The feeling follows the behavior." If you DO loving things, you will begin to FEEL loving. Even so, I think we could paraphrase: Christian experience is something we do -- not an emotional feeling. If we DO the Christian thing -- whether it is merely in worshipful acts, or also in benevolent acts -- the feeling will soon follow. I don't think anybody feels good all the time. We just have to keep on keeping on, during the "down" times. God bless. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Quote: I am going to share something now that might get your attention. The SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH is currently studying Jonah for the sabbath school lesson. It consists of just 48 verses that can be read in 6 to 7 minutes out loud. BUT because of the usual TOPICAL approach the tendency is to cover one topic, maybe 2 each week. This week the focus was on judgement. SS lesson leaders, teachers, facilitators will most likely lead discussion involving judgement in general..maybe not even relevant to the book of Jonah... Now I know in this age of quick sound bites that most in the congregation would greatly suffer trying to concentrate on listening to 6-7 minutes of scripture reading..especially at one time. However I know that in some sabbath school classes the verses will not even be read over the course of 13 weeks. It is now supposed to be a no no ,in some areas, to even ask the sabbath school class if they took opportunity to study or even look over the sabbath school lesson...too offensive or embarrassing. I challenge you..the ones who are faithful attenders of your sabbath school class to see if the book of Jonah is ever read once this quarter in class, out loud, by the teacher or a few people taking turns. I also challenge any teacher out there to ask at the end of the quarter to see if any class members took the time to read the 48 verses of the book of Jonah..or have ever read the whole book of Jonah. Keep this under wraps and wait til the end. Write it on a paper and stick it in Lesson #13 of your quarterly.. Well, I read this above part in sabbath school class today.(will be out of town next sabbath). There was a person who was honest enough to say he hadn't read the 48 verses of Jonah this quarter. There is a good chance that they all knew what I was getting at. Matt 15 and 23 helped to make it relevant. History repeats itself and it doesn't take much for people to walk in the footsteps of those who Jesus had serious/strong words for. BTW...some asked if I would stay in the class and teach on a regular basis. There is an approach where one can share what people NEED to hear instead of what they think they WANT to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 The next quarterly is on the book of John.. We are starting 2004 with it.. Ever tried to read your bible all of the way through and got stuck on Leviticus and threw in the towel??? Try again and read faster through the tabernacle stuff and geneologies..bite the bullet.. OR try at least reading the New Testament in 2004.. There has to be some OLD GUARD SDA's out there who have never done that either... Start reading in something other than the somewhat difficult KJV Start reading John... "In the beginning was the ... Yeah...that scripture can be as dry as eating peanut butter sandwiches on whole wheat bread while walking in the the Sahara during Summer...to the carnal and entertainment media addict... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 TaintedFate You asked,"what's the cure for this tendency?" In regard to the discussion of Satan wants us to fail. The only cure is for us to come fully and unconditionally into God's will. I find this to be very easy for each of us to say to ourselves and even easier for us to share with others. In reality this is probably the hardest single part of our thinking to change when we are constantly battling our naturally sinful tendencies. It is the easy way out, giving into these bad habits, we have grown to feel some sort of false security through this sinfulness. Having been lost in these sinful ways for so long they become like our best friends. To shake yourself from them is like losing your wallet. How am I going to replace all the important data that I have stored in there for so long? Now I have to call the card companies and place a stop order, and my social security card was in there, my whole identity is now in someone else's hands. Your left stnading there either as empty as your pocket is right about now, or as empty as your hand-bag is. Like the one point in the last paragraph, your Identity is now in someone elses hands. This is what happens to us when we can fully let go and surrender our will to God, letting Him be our will so we can carry out His will. Hard to let go just like that, because we feel like we are going to fall off the edge if we should let go. There is another part to this, we humans want to go through life thinking that we have a firm grip on 'our control' of every given situation. That being the case, how do we then explain how we fall into the sin game? We can be left in charge of certain areas of our daily activities, but when push comes to shove we control nothing without God's willing it. Think how much more any of us would gain in Gods grace if we could just do this one thing he asks of each of us. I am not the mathematician, but I would guess the numbers would be staggering. If we could do this I think that Satan would be without a place to hang his hat. You also asked, "How can I be delivered from this imprisonment?" I think that you are already on this path because you realize their is a need for God in you heart. It seems to me that He dwells there already, even though you struggle with your sin. Hey! I find the same thing happening over in my house also. A constant battle with sin and its representatives daily. On the same note, I find that by making time for God in my life daily and working to apply the lessons that God has given me, keeps satan at bay. It is when I remove this protection either by not studying or ignoring God through other distractions, I have created cracks in my armor and this in turn gives satan a way in. I can only share with you what I have expirenced in my walk. When I first came to the point of accepting Jesus into my life I wondered if He could forgive me of all the sin I had piled on. It was when I committed to Him that the guilt instantly had been removed from me. I felt so free at that very moment I wanted to run out into the street shouting with joy. God showed me that I needed to get down on my knees and repent of each sin and truthfuly mean I was sorry for committing it. I thought well how am I going to do this Lord there has been 50 years of sin, and I could not recall all that I had done or remember those who I had hurt. Again I ask God, how Lord, and this is what was the reply, one sin at a time, some days more but the list has become shorter and shorter in the past year. I will be walking or even working on the computer and up pops an aweful thing I had done way back in time that I had forgottten, and wham it is the formost on my mind. I get into prayer right away and ask that the Father forgive me. Surrending to God is an act of coming like you are and not looking back to see if you have left something behind. When we start looking back is when we leave the door ajar just enough to let the master of all lies and confusion, a way in. And there isn't a more appealing prey for satan to drag off than a believing soul. For him it is like the big take on a game hunt, he stuffs you and mounts you upon his wall. Now that is scarry stuff. Thank you Jesus for loving each of us even though we are undiserving and incomplete according to our thinking, Lord. Thank you for being there to keep us from becoming satans trophy, Thank you Father for the Gift of salvation that you share with each of us. And thank you for our sister Tainted Fate, I ask that you bless her AND REMOVE THE DOUBT THAT SHE BATTLES WITH DAILY. Father keep her safe from Satans firey attack that seems to draw her away in thought and deed from time to time. Father watch over each of as during this holiday season, fill our days with your happiness and joy Father. I ask this all in Jesus glorious name, amen!! God Bless! BusyBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlene Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I have looked at the new SS Quarterly for 2004 and it is good! Very good! I'm really looking forward to studying it deeply. We all need a relationship like John the Beloved disciple. If we all had it we would be home in Heaven long before this. I hope that each week all teachers spend some time dwelling on how we can apply the biblical principles presented in each lesson to our own life. I really feel that if we do this during 1st Quarter it will make a huge difference in our lives and in our Church. Someone mentioned not knowing about a class having a class leader and a class teacher; one to care for the fellowhsip and outreach of the class and one to care for the spiritual growth of class members. This idea is presented in the "Sabbath School Handbook" that came out about 4-5 years ago and if one is familiar with the make up of small groups you will find it used there also. It can be very, very successful! Yes, our classes need more than just to focus on the Study of God's Word. That of course is central, but we also need to put God's Word into practise by outreach to fellow members and to our communties. That is what Sabbath School is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Anyone, Did any discussion during week #12 lesson..at your sabbath school ..relate to Matt 23 or were any of the verses in that chapter read in class?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 We never went to Matthew in the group that I am in we did get into Isaiah 7, and went to Luke and John. We had a discussion as to our own expirences as compared to the lesson. But we have been in Matthew 23 in several of the previous studies at Sabbath School. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 2004 For most people in the church, will be it be like last year..and the year before that? Sanctification is a work of a lifetime...yet some are running out of their lifetime. Will people neglect to look at their SS lessons.. Read only their bibles when asked to turn to a passage when in the worship service...if you're fortunate to be asked. Not know much more about what the SS class time is about? Not have any new insights, agendas, or goals? Put off any revival or reformation until CHAOS hits? Do you have the GOSPEL of JOHN mastered? DO you care if you just warm a pew? Are you afraid to bring a question or something of interest to the sabbath school instead of just SHOWING UP??? For the most part..what I see in sabbath school is a PATHETIC WASTE OF GOD GIVEN TIME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 With the views on this thread approaching 500..is it possible I have hit on a legitimate sore point in the church??? HUH?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Quote: With your use of the 'I' word approaching 500 times, it is getting a little boring, wouldn't you say 'ol chap'? Oh, then let's have fun with your post. I find it a little contradictory. If you seemed to keep your interest while counting all of those "I's"..hmmm...maybe you are used to boredom from boring SS classes and TOPICAL sermons. I am curious about what you do in the medical field...are you a phlebotomist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirley Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Quote: 2004 For most people in the church, will be it be like last year..and the year before that? For the most part..what I see in sabbath school is a PATHETIC WASTE OF GOD GIVEN TIME Here you go again, JimBob. Do you realize that there are over 13 million members in the SDA church and at least 20 million who attend Sabbath school? How many of those people do you associate with on a weekly basis in church and Sabbath school? When you use the terms "For most people in the church" and "For the most part" others would assume that you have been around the whole world and talked to most of the millions of SDA's out there to be such an authority on what they are thinking and doing and saying. NOT!!!! Just because YOU see what is going on in your tiny spere of the Adventist world as a "PATHETIC WASTE OF GOD GIVEN TIME" does not make it so for the rest of the members in the rest of the world. Come back to reality. Shirley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Yeah, I (here is another one for those counting)don't have my hand checking the pulse of 20 million SS members. However...IF things are so dandy and successful....how come there are messages preached on Laodicea...and why can big shot SDA conference officials remark that there is need for revival in the church? ALSO....how can you challenge when there is no criteria or means for monitoring/reporting the SS members satifaction, interest or growth? Care to dig up some statistics as to what percentage of United States SDA members don't even attend sabbath school anymore? By the way...evidently in Latin America, the Philippines and Africa there seems to be successful efforts.. BUT...my concern is for here in this country.. There is the biblical parable about the shepherd leaving the 99 and looking for the ONE AND...what are members to do with that LONGGG sabbath day if they don't force themselves, from habit, to get up and warm a pew for a few hours..in the hopes that they might hear one single inspiring tidbit once a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Was asked to teach the lesson this week. I will emphasize Tuesday's section.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 HEY!!! Are you neglecting the sabbath school lesson again?? HUH?? You have a chance to talk about BOOZE and NOISY churches this week. Last week you could have discussed Trinitarianism, Creation/evolution, Incarnation, glory of God, how and why people reject God, the nature of Christ hot potato, the power and effect/influence of words On CA we have a sabbath school thread where contemporary practical applications and issues are posted... I encourage you to participate..it can help .."prime the pump" for your weekly ss class so it won't be the usual boring experience.. mine sure isn't... The class members get generous portions or all you can eat buffet portions in the sabbath school I lead..instead of the expensive restaurant diet portions that some get...poor starving souls.. ever heard of the biblical/Christian world view??? How about the WCTU in the SOP? AA or MADD.. Do you know how to extend your influence??? (SALT and LIGHT) This week's lesson is "Something Better" When we contemplate and value something better..we can be ...someone better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 SS Lesson #4...Focus is on Nicodemus and Samaritan woman... ---------------- OK...religion, theology and ancient history.. Are all class members tuned into that?? Look at the larger picture here... The first encounter involves an unconverted clergy and the second involves broken marriages/dysfunctional interpersonal relationships. If our sabbath school lessons don't equip class members to cope with the issues at hand...WHO CARES???? Do you think there are any clergy out there who are in Nicodemus' position? Want to walk up to them after a TOPICAL sermon and tell them that they must be born again? When you find out that someone is struggling with, or thinking about a divorce or has been married 2 to 5 times...do you just walk up to them and say..."Read JOHN 4" and then walk away and say to yourself..."Well that one is taken care of"?? Do you tell them.. "Keep your eyes on Jesus, look to the cross , He will never forsake you...have a nice life."?? Is our study approach practical , relevant, contemporary..clear? Is there anything there for our application ..or are we just to analyze/brainstorm some 2000 year old religious one on one personal encounters..?? OK..before you pick apart some part of this post...do you catch the main point/theme of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Did you ever hear someone say that not looking at your SS lesson is like unconsciously saying.... GIVE US BARABBAS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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