Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 7, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/concern,-compassion-and-hope-for-ex-adventist-pastor-who-rejected-god WelchGary 1 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 7, 2015 Members Share Posted January 7, 2015 I don't agree with the notion that Ryan Bell is in the throes of "major depression." That assessment rather smacks of trying to figure out an excuse as to why he made the decision to state that he doesn't think God exists. I think the "God" that many Christians worship really *doesn't* exist. Tom Wetmore, Kevin H and phkrause 3 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 My reaction as well. Unless the author has more info about the person than what he wrote, I wondered about his diagnoses, with out any supporting documentation. I would hope that people who have given up on a belief do not get put into the 'depression' bucket!! lazarus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2015 I like the idea of expressing concern, compassion, and hope for this former pastor but It is quite disturbing that someone with the title "spiritual counselor" (not exactly sure what that is) would draw such a conclusion about someone who I assume he has not sat down with. He has "all the signs and symptoms" is quite a statement since Major Depressive Disorder has a number of specific symptoms. Rather odd and a bit scary really. Tom Wetmore 1 Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 7, 2015 Members Share Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/concern,-compassion-and-hope-for-ex-adventist-pastor-who-rejected-god Wasn't this posted somewhere else?? Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 8, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 8, 2015 I like that Mr. Bell is being honest by declaring where he is at. We can't chastise him for that, can we? I would rather a person be real than faking his spiritual stand. Kevin H 1 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 8, 2015 I like that Mr. Bell is being honest by declaring where he is at. We can't chastise him for that, can we? I would rather a person be real than faking his spiritual stand. Rather than being depressed he may feel relieved that, like you said, he can now be really honest about where he is. The good thing is the even though he may have given up on God, God has not given up on him. Gail, LifeHiscost, phkrause and 1 other 4 Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 8, 2015 Depressed: Who would not be over the treatment that we all to often give to people like him. However, I have not seen the signs of Major Depression in him. Kevin H 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 8, 2015 I don't agree with the notion that Ryan Bell is in the throes of "major depression." That assessment rather smacks of trying to figure out an excuse as to why he made the decision to state that he doesn't think God exists. I think the "God" that many Christians worship really *doesn't* exist. Is that what he meant when he said he dosen't believe that God as person exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 8, 2015 Gerry, why speculate as to what he meant? If you do not want to ask him directly, read everything that he has said to come to an understanding of what he meant. Kevin H 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 9, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 9, 2015 Gerry, why speculate as to what he meant? If you do not want to ask him directly, read everything that he has said to come to an understanding of what he meant. When someone says, "God does not exist", or "There is no God", and offers no other explanation, that is clear enough for me. Sorry, Greg, life is too short to spend it speculating or checking out what every Joe Blue means when they open their mouths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 9, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 9, 2015 Lyndon, I have some agreement with your post. 1) I also believe that there are real issues in doing any diagnosis without a face to face clinical meeting. From this perspective, I have major problems with telephone and e-mail diagnosis. I generally refuse to do such. However, sometimes one has to work with what they have available to them. I have professionally worked on a call-in emergency telephone line responding to people who telephoned us. It performed a needed service. 2) Professional ethics: While I am not presently a member, I have been an Associate Member of the American Psychological Association. I could be wrong, but I doubt that the author of that article violated any professional ethics. Why? Professional ethics apply to professionally trained and/or licensed people. I am not aware that the author of that article was such. I am not a trained and licensed physician. If I stopped to give aid to a person involved in an accident, I will not be considered to have violated any professional ethics due to my lack of license and trainings. Yes, I could still be charged with other issues. 3) Violation of HIPPA: For many years I have worked as a hospital chaplain and been subject to HIPPA. As far as I know, HIPPA did not apply to the author of the article. If, I am correct, the author can not be charged with a violation. I have no knowledge that HIPPA applies to you. IF so, you cannot be charged with a violation. 4) Ethical violation of making a clinical judgment based upon written materials: There is a sub-set of psychology that does just that. I call it historical psychology. I looks at written materials related to one's life and their written documents and makes clinical suggestions based upon those written materials. Lyndon, I have amplified (expanded?) your post a bit. Please do not take it as a criticism. I have major agreement with your post and believe that it was of value. But, I have chosen to give some additional information. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 9, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 9, 2015 For those who might want to know more about where Ryan Bell actually is: http://atoday.org/interview-ryan-bell-former-adventist-pastor.html Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 A very interesting interview. I was disappointed by the comments of the 'pastors' and others. Not much compassion expressed for his journey. I liked his comments about how Christians and atheists should see each other, not the stereotypical. Thanks for posting. Kevin H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 10, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2015 I was one of at least 4 people I know of who wrote thoughtful comments on the Review site challenging the author of the article on some of the points others have raised in this thread. None of those comments was accepted for publication. The Comments section looks like a litany of agreement... but that's due to censorship and selection, not to what readers actually said and thought. rudywoofs (Pam), Kevin H and Jeannieb43 3 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 10, 2015 Members Share Posted January 10, 2015 they didn't accept my comment either... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Bravus did you read the article GM linked too? That was the one I was referring too. I agree, comments in the Review are censored, by their own admission. I do see some disagreeing from time to time, but I wonder about the ratio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 10, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2015 The REVIEW Website is moderated. Comments are only posted if the editors want them posted. I feel good if I get one-half of my comments posted on that website. Check out my reference to an Adventist Today website--post # 17. You are more likely to get posted there. Kevin H 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted January 10, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2015 I find this so sad. Ryan Bell got into trouble for ministering to people who others would over look. He has been willing to seek and to search. I have to admit I would have liked to see him remain a theist and to have been a Seventh-day Adventist lay member coming to Sabbath School and Church on Sabbath, but spend Sunday through Friday pastoring say a Methodist or United Church of God church, encouraging them to be a bit more moderate and open to the Bible and continuing his ministry that he started with us but we did not have room for. (and maybe this should not have been one of our ministries, but could have worked out like how I describe above). At times our church is too centered on ourselves and getting more tithe payers, instead of equipping people for ministry. Brother Bell has been the focus of this shortcoming in our church. He has been unnecessarily hurt. He has found a fantastic job in helping the homeless and he has been finding among the atheistic community a lot of searching and questions that they are afraid to reach out to believers for answers. He says that he feels like he has become a minister to the Atheists, and he had been opposing stereotypes of believers that atheists tend to have. When Satan comes claiming to be Jesus, there will be no Atheists. They will fall to "Seeing is believing". What is going to be their downfall is their ignorance of scripture for their safeguard. Brother Bell might be able to help some of them see that this is Satan when he comes and as Atheism comes to an end he may be able to point many of them to the true Jesus. He has always been willing to minister in unusual ways. Our job is to stop inflecting pain on him. Pray for him and be his friend. Share with him what we find helpful and let him decide what to do with the information and what and how to share. phkrause and Gail 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carey Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 How about this: "My beloved wife, thanks for your true love for me. We've been together for a couple of years now and seems like our love become stronger day by day. But wait a minute, honey, next year I simply have a plan to stop loving you. THIS WILL BE JUST TEMPORARY. So don't worry sweetheart. This only last for one year. I'll be back and start loving you again. I promise!" "You know that we love each other. But during my period of "ONE YEAR WITHOUT YOU" please don't make any call, don't pray for me, don't even thinking of me, and don't ask where I go. Stop bothering me or I will call police....oppss... I mean... ahh...never mind... but please.... " "Again, don't worry too much, honey. At the end of my "ONE YEAR WITHOUT YOU" timeline, surely I'll come back to you and loving you even more.... "" ~end~ Though within non SDA churches this joke seems to be a bit too much and been widely spreading everywhere, I think we must prevent this joke to stop spreading too much in our own SDA churches, especially among youth. While we shouln't disagree the fact that the (progressive) SDA members are too proud of too much investing in any grey area by mixing truth and error, many of the outsiders are seriously loving God and keep searching the Biblical Truth with all of their hearts and would rather to die. So please don't be surpised if those faithful non SDA christians are really offended by Ryan Bell's "A Year Withour God" LifeHiscost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 While we shouln't disagree the fact that the (progressive) SDA members are too proud of too much investing in any grey area by mixing truth and error, What does it say over in the NT about the back biters, slanderers, etc? Way to much presumption. Each person makes their own choice. There is nothing to fear but fear itself. Do you trust in God or your own attempts to protect your self from what ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carey Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Dear CoAspen, you said "Each person makes their own choice." Right... and you know that speaking of "own choice", people's mind and cultures keep changing all the time. But Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is the same Jesus that 2000 years ago declared "But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”Matthew 11:24 LifeHiscost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 12, 2015 Members Share Posted January 12, 2015 Dear CoAspen, you said "Each person makes their own choice." Right... and you know that speaking of "own choice", people's mind and cultures keep changing all the time. But Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52 Jesus was not the same when He was born on earth as He was prior to His incarnation... At what point did Jesus stop increasing in wisdom? At what point did Jesus cease to increase in his favour with God? phkrause and Kevin H 2 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted January 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2015 Good one Pam. Fight fire with fire. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carey Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This is all about ATTITUDE. When the attitude is always uncomfortable at the very first place, it doesn't matter how sincere of someone's rebuke, warning or sharing...they always consider it as a grievous crime and equal to the very worst type of hostility. And they don't care how blasphemous Ryan Bell's attitude against God, they will always fall in love with his character though it's against God. Guaranteed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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