Would you say anything.....

[Gerr]

....to a friend who has been diagnosed with an aggressive cancer and has been told there is no effective treatment, but is now thinking of going to a third world country hoping for a cure or at least some improvement with a drug that has shown no evidence of being effective?  They can hardly afford the trip.  In fact,  the church is being asked to help with the medical expenses already incurred.

[LifeHiscost]

....to a friend who has been diagnosed with an aggressive cancer and has been told there is no effective treatment, but is now thinking of going to a third world country hoping for a cure or at least some improvement with a drug that has shown no evidence of being effective?  They can hardly afford the trip.  In fact,  the church is being asked to help with the medical expenses already incurred.

To a friend, yes, but I would have to have a lot more information before committing. Praying for them.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Gerr]

Somehow they are holding to some hope that this alternative treatment to mainstream medicine which has shown no efficacy from what I have seen in peer-reviewed literature so far.  Hope is a previous thing.  I would hate to snuff out that hope if I told them the truth about the treatment they are thinking about.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

this reminds me of my grandmother who went to extremes in alternative medicine treatments for my grandfather who'd had a stroke... She wasted so much money and time, and my grandfather miserable when he had to drink those awful-smelling Chinese herbal drinks.  And, of course, nothing helped.

 

My parents and other relatives told grandma that the alternative treatments were not working.  But my uncle told her they might help.  So, grandma took the opinion of one person (my uncle) because it gave her hope...albeit, a false hope.  I could've kicked my uncle for that.

 

I think if the same sort of thing happened with a friend, I'd have to tell him/her that if I or anyone in my family was the patient, I wouldn't waste my time and money chasing invisible rabbits..

[Gregory Matthews]

A United Airlines, non-stop from LA to Chicago declared a medical emergency and set down in Denver to exit a passenger who ended up in the hospital where I worked.

 

I watched this woman die from cancer that had progressed to the place where it could no longer be treated.  Five years previously she had been diagnosed with cancer.  At that time we had treatment for her cancer, at the stage that it was, that had a very high success rate.

 

At the time that she ended up in our hospital, the cancer had gone to her brain and her spinal column as well as elsewhere.

 

For five years, she as a clinical provider in a hospital, had only received alternative treatment in Mexico. 

 

When the United Airlines airplane set down  in Denver to provide her with immediate clinical care, she was returning from a trip to the Mexican clinic that had treated her for five years.

 

Upon her death, and the clinical issues that surrounded it, I had to deal with staff and their grief over the unnecessary death of a human being, one who did not need to have died.

 

 

She died alone, away from family and people she knew because her clinical condition was such that it was believed that she could not have survived transport by air ambulance.

[Naomi]

GERRY

 

   with  out  hope  people  just  give up----so  i  would   continue  to  pray for them

 

 

dgrimm60

True, but false hope is very destructive. 

[Naomi]

A United Airlines, non-stop from LA to Chicago declared a medical emergency and set down in Denver to exit a passenger who ended up in the hospital where I worked.

 

I watched this woman die from cancer that had progressed to the place where it could no longer be treated.  Five years previously she had been diagnosed with cancer.  At that time we had treatment for her cancer, at the stage that it was, that had a very high success rate.

 

At the time that she ended up in our hospital, the cancer had gone to her brain and her spinal column as well as elsewhere.

 

For five years, she as a clinical provider in a hospital, had only received alternative treatment in Mexico. 

 

When the United Airlines airplane set down  in Denver to provide her with immediate clinical care, she was returning from a trip to the Mexican clinic that had treated her for five years.

 

Upon her death, and the clinical issues that surrounded it, I had to deal with staff and their grief over the unnecessary death of a human being, one who did not need to have died.

 

 

She died alone, away from family and people she knew because her clinical condition was such that it was believed that she could not have survived transport by air ambulance.

 

I have/had  a friend from college who was a chemist.  Totally distrustful of chemo, etc.  Went to Mexico and opened a clinic in a beautiful villa.  Treated with meditation, far eastern herbs, etc.  success ratio was horrid, but people just kept coming.  Sad

[whbae]

I don't know any alternative medication which can cure any ca. I heard many times that Canbidoil (marijuana) works for many ca.  I really don't know the effectiveness.  I have seen several people who chose alternative medical treatment for ca did not make it.

[Liz]

....to a friend who has been diagnosed with an aggressive cancer and has been told there is no effective treatment, but is now thinking of going to a third world country hoping for a cure or at least some improvement with a drug that has shown no evidence of being effective?  They can hardly afford the trip.  In fact,  the church is being asked to help with the medical expenses already incurred.

 

I would only say something if they asked for your medical advice/opinion. Otherwise, it's their body, their disease, their treatment option. They probably know they are grasping at straws, but there is no need to kick them when they are down. As for the church helping, the church can decide if or in what capacity they will help, maybe give X amount to help but no more, but that is for the church to decide.

[phkrause]

True, but false hope is very destructive. 

Not sure he means that kind of hope! I believe he means the hope we have in Jesus. We all will die, but those that have the hope in Jesus, that we will be resurrected in the first resurrection.

[Lauralea]

Tough call. I would encourage them to consider anointing. Have similar sad stories of some who made unwise choices. Unfortunately SDAs seem more susceptible to this. While some natural treatments provide an extra boost for certain cancers like the heat treatments used by Wildwood and Cancers Centers of America may facilitate chemo they are not the ones typically vaunted by these places in Mexico. There are a few herbs like pau d arco that do fight cancer some according to the NIH but trials were stopped due to liver damage. And with advanced cancer there is not much to recommend. Perhaps a promising clinical trial or going to Duke or Johns Hopkins or Mayo for a second opinion if its a viable option for them.

[Gerr]

Thanks for all your input.

[Lauralea]

Even though we may not have much to offer someone from a medical perspective, there are a few rare individuals who still get better despite all odds. Knew a colporteur once, a young guy, who started doing something making more money and got inoperable cancer. Literally they opened him up and closed him up, said they could do nothing for him. He came back to a closer relationship with the Lord (His statement not mine- not judging him) and went into spontaneous remission and when I knew him he was training me to colporteur in Pensacola Florida. He was a colporteur leader for the Southern Union and was medically fine.

[Stan]

MAN  this is one of the real questions.  I have met people over the years that did go to Mexico for some 'cutting edge' pharmaceuticals... and it worked.,..  others not so.

 

There is a new procedure  (always seems to be) that appears to come out of Canada, and they attack the DNA of the cancer strain, it has been proven very successful on a friend of mine. He had lung cancer, and the MRI looked like a Christmas tree lights.  He never smoked etc. The details, if you can see them are here, read from the bottom up.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/friendsofgerry/?fref=ts

[Gail]

The number of responses here show me that many are genuinely interested in the illnesses of their loved ones and acquaintances but sometimes don't know what the right thing to say at the right time is. You can count me in on that.

I recently made a friend by commenting to her story of her cancer (among other things). I am not sure how appropriate this is but just said that Nothing fazes God, even death. It's big to us but biblically from God to us He has plans for that old enemy. The words popped out... I am glad that she appreciated it, like I said we are friends now rather than acquaintances. But it could have been understood differently, as minimising the person's experience.

What are some things that you guys have said that seemed to have connected? I'm taking notes...

[Gerry Chudleigh]

Thanks for thinking of me, Stan. Six months ago I was very late stage-4 lung cancer, with cancer in my lymph system, spine, jaw, ribs, liver, spleen, and many other places. Fortunately, Tarceva has removed all of that -- temporarily. Unfortunately, Tareceva is affective only for a certain type of lung cancer (and somewhat effective in combination with other drugs for some cases of pancreatic cancer) and only for about 25 percent of the people with that type of lung cancer. It works an average of 11 months before the cancer develops an immunity to it. Now there is at least one backup medicine that I may be able to switch to when Tarceva quites working. The new pill, if the next DNA profile suggests it will work for me, will cost $150,000 per year instead of the mere $72,000 the Tarceva costs. This is not chemo. It is just one small white pill each day. My co-pay is $13.35 per month.

It is true that when a person is diagnosed with cancer there are a host of people urging you to try everything imaginable. Some come very close to being stalkers. I am fortunate to have one of the best lung cancer research doctors in the world (at Cedars-Sinai). One of the things I appreciate about him is that he tells me the truth. When there is no longer a treatment that will work, he will tell me, and he will tell me how long I probably have to live. I like that. Check with me when the medicine stops working to see if I still like it then. And he patiently explains the physiology involved in each non-traditional treatment I have asked him about and what evidence there is or isn't for its effectiveness. I might later try non-traditional treatments, but not if the expense is great and the evidence of success is minimal.

Praise God, hate cancer and keep praying.

[Gail]

Thanks for the input

[Igakusei]

This isn't exactly helpful to your friend, but it's a great read and fairly on topic.

 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/08/02/letting-go-2

[Gregory Matthews]

An article that everyone should read.  However, be prepared.  It will emotionally touch you.

 

After 20 years of working in a hospital, I have come to some conclusions:

 

1) Life is quality, not quantity.

 

2) Medical science can often postpone death.  But, when the body commits itself to dying, medical science cannot prevent death.  The body always wins that  battle.

 

3) So-called cost benefit analysis is much more than financial.  Treatments may have pain and side effects.  Is that cost worth the expected benefit?  NOTE:  We have such treatments that may only postpone death for a few days. 

 

4) Individuals have to make their own decisions related to quality of life.  I have seen total care patients come into our hospital who were happy with the life that they were living and content.  Not my choice, but it was theirs.

 

5) Hospice care does increase the quality of one's life prior to their death.  But, hospice care is a developing field.  One should exercise as much choice in the selection of hospice care as one exercises in the selection of their physician.

 

6) Yes, God is powerful.  Yes, I have seen changes that are beyond the power of science to explain.  But, God expects us to use the minds that we have been given.  Death is a reality that all of us have an obligation to face and to prepare for.  That includes preparation of wills that are current and reflect our wishes.  It includes conversations with our relatives as to our wishes as we near the end of our life.  It includes personal understanding of the limits of medical science and the consequences of our decisions.  It includes preparation of our family members for our eventual death and their life that will continue after we die.  This all involves conversations.  NOTE:   Later today my wife and I will sign updated wills and following that we will communicate with our sons specifics as to what we have done and our wishes.  My wife and I are in great health.  But, due to an age difference, It is expected that she will live for years after I die.   We have to plan for that.  While my health is great, I may go blind, or have greatly reduced vision, prior to my death.  That is a reality that we have to deal with.  Yes, I have the best of care.  We will do whatever is reasonable to preserve my eyesight.  But, we will deal with reality.  That reality, in total is that the longer I live the less functional my body will become.  I may run a 10 K race.  But, that does not mean that I can ever run a marathon.      

 

7) Time is limited for all of us.  But, in recognizing that we can set goals that we want to accomplish during the time that we  have.  We can accomplish those.  I tell people who have been given    X number of months to live that they have been given a blessing that many people do not have.  They can set their goals and accomplish them.   If they have always wanted to visit someplace, do it now while they can.  If they need to establish a relationship with someone, do it now.  Do what needs to be done so that one can die without regrets.

 

8) People like me want control of their lives.  Preparation for death involved accepting that one cannot control everything.  That includes giving information, with consequent control, of some things to others.  In preparing the wills that we will sign today, we have had extended conversations with a son whom we have asked to step in and take charge after our deaths.  This includes an honest sharing of what our wishes are.

 

9) Preparation for death includes an understanding of the consequences of medical decisions that must be made.  What does it mean to be on a ventilator?  How long does one want to be on such before one is removed.  What does it mean to open a human chest and perform cardiac surgery?   NOTE:  I have personally witnessed the recovery period of a very elderly CABG patient.  He actually spent several months in a NHCU.

 

Well folks, the article touched me.  I hope my thoughts, above, have stimulated your thinking and your preparation for your death.