Moderators lazarus Posted February 20, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 20, 2015 As the masses argue about their rhetorical differences our governments quietly continue work on their real agenda: AMERICAN AND BRITISH spies hacked into the internal computer network of the largest manufacturer of SIM cards in the world, stealing encryption keys used to protect the privacy of cellphone communications across the globe, according to top-secret documents provided to The Intercept by National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden. The hack was perpetrated by a joint unit consisting of operatives from the NSA and its British counterpart Government Communications Headquarters, or GCHQ. The breach, detailed in a secret 2010 GCHQ document, gave the surveillance agencies the potential to secretly monitor a large portion of the world’s cellular communications, including both voice and data. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/19/great-sim-heist/ RobertoDamp, Timothycure, Vitezhish and 3 others 6 Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 20, 2015 Administrators Share Posted February 20, 2015 Wow! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 23, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted February 23, 2015 Thanks for the Wow Gail. It's just as startling that we have mostly resigned ourselves to the fact that privacy no longer exists. In the US it seems like the 4th amendment has been silently been removed from the constitution. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Use to be, you could go to Radio Shack and buy a handheld scanner. With it, you could listen to cell phones! They skip thru frequencies, so, you were stuck to limited snippets. Following an entire call required a scanner that could follow along thru the frequencies. The old mobile phones didn't and you could follow entire phone calls and follow-up calls from the same phone! What people forget is, no matter how well you secure your phones, internet connection, even your homes, someone is going to be right behind you figuring out how to break in. Total longterm security does not and never will exist in this world. Just within this last week, it was reveal hackers breaking into bank have stolen over one billion dollars! Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 And yet people are perfectly willing to load up on FaceBook will all kinds of data, Twitter, dating sites and still complain about what govs do for National Security. Maybe the gov should just have full time analysts monitoring those sites.....I forgot, they already do! Data is floating out in open spaces of our world, and off into space, does anyone not understand that what leaves a persons lips is available for someone to hear and use? Yes, privacy is being limited. The real question to be asked is, Does all this surveillance increase our security as a nation? Might depend on who you ask. Are people willing to give up some personal security for peace and security? I would say yes based on what social media experts say about the everyday use of such. One can not vomit out all the details of their daily life and then expect no one to collect it!! My thoughts... phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 23, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted February 23, 2015 Just within this last week, it was reveal hackers breaking into bank have stolen over one billion dollars! Of course, criminals are always going to try to get our information and exploit it. This story is about our governments however. The stunning part is not really that they would get our information it's that our reaction is so very muted. In the context of partisan politics people will jump up and down but outside of that we as people accept almost anything. That's what I have issue with. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 23, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted February 23, 2015 And yet people are perfectly willing to load up on FaceBook will all kinds of data, Twitter, dating sites and still complain about what govs do for National Security. Maybe the gov should just have full time analysts monitoring those sites.....I forgot, they already do! Posting on Facebook is something you can chose to do. Many people chose not to go on Facebook because they want t keep their info secure. You can choose what pictures etc. that you want to post. The government can spy on us without out every having knowledge of it. We have no choice in that and so now we are in dangerous territory. There's a lot of hype about ISIS but the biggest threat to national security are our own Western governments IMHO. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I knew you would go the choice route and you are correct. My question is, is the government acquiring any more data than the public is willingly giving up on daily basis? Maybe, I don't know!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 24, 2015 Members Share Posted February 24, 2015 The government can make a recipe book from my Facebook page if they'd like. CoAspen 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 25, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2015 My question is, is the government acquiring any more data than the public is willingly giving up on daily basis? Maybe, I don't know!! People don't make all their phone call data, every physical location, emails, and text messages available on Facebook. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Have you noticed that Facebook keeps asking you to import your address book as the easiest way to find more friends? Just think of all the legal spider bots out there on the web collecting and connecting data. The web is not secure. Just think of all the media sites other than Facebook that people are using.Data security is and has been a myth. The real issue is that people want to make the decision on who has access to their data with out understanding how the data is being handled. How often do people read the fine print? Is it reasonable to restrict intelligence agencies on the how or who they acquire data from? Is it reasonable to say 'only spy on other countries, but not your own'? Is the country and it's citizens being adequately protected with very restricted methods of acquiring data? The questions can go on and on, I don't have the answers, but i would suggest the average person has not thought about the questions or even wants to ask them. Remember all the outcry after 911 about our agencies not doing their job? This is a very complicated issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 26, 2015 Members Share Posted February 26, 2015 and then there was the time when the communication lines were taken over by the US military.... 153 years ago today (on 25 Feb 1862), and interesting about the caveat of the 5th point... WAR DEPARTMENT Ordered, first. On and after the 26th day of February instant the President, by virtue of the act of Congress, takes military possession of all the telegraph lines in the United States. Second. All telegraphic communications in regard to military operations not expressly authorized by the War Department, the General Commanding, or the generals commanding armies in the field, in the several departments, are absolutely forbidden. Third. All newspapers publishing military news, however obtained and by whatever medium received, not authorized by the official authority mentioned in the preceding paragraph will be excluded thereafter from receiving information by telegraph or from transmitting their papers by railroad. Fourth. Edward S. Sanford is made military supervisor of telegraphic messages throughout the United States. Anson Stager is made military superintendent of all telegraph lines and offices in the United States. Fifth. This possession and control of the telegraph lines is not intended to interfere in any respect with the ordinary affairs of the companies or with private business. By order of the President: EDWIN M. STANTON, Secretary of War. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 27, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2015 Data security is and has been a myth. It is possible to secure your data. The whole point of this story is that the security services hacked the company who made the sim cards. Why did they go to such lengths? The stole the encryption keys because the data was not accessible to them. It was secure. (I'm not a computer expert or anything close) Is it reasonable to restrict intelligence agencies on the how or who they acquire data from? Is it reasonable to say 'only spy on other countries, but not your own'? Of course. Governments, all governments have had a history of using the apparatus of the state to abuse their power. Are you suggesting there should be no limits on state power in terms of accessing the private information of their citizens. Why did the framers include the 4th amendment? Totalitarian regimes gain much of their ability to oppress their people from being able the spy, invade privacy, seize information and property without any restrictions. This is a very complicated issue There may be complicated aspects to the privacy issue but the spirit of the 4th amendment seems quite straight forward. In the US and other western countries I believe this freedom has been tossed into the trash. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 27, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2015 and then there was the time when the communication lines were taken over by the US military.... 153 years ago today (on 25 Feb 1862), and interesting about the caveat of the 5th point... Habius corpus was suspended by Lincoln but eventually restored. At at time of war freedoms are often suspended. Are we at war and do you think the spy agencies will decide NOT to steal our data at some future point? Which is a bigger threat to our security? Isis who will let off a bomb and kill lets say 100 in NY? Or our own governments who Adventists believe will persecute their own people and perhaps seek to kill millions? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I'm just asking questions, don't have the answers!! The subject need a lot of thought and discussion by the citizens of this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 5, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 5, 2015 I'm just asking questions, don't have the answers!! The subject need a lot of thought and discussion by the citizens of this country. I think the die is cast. We are already a police state. The coup has taken place. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Maybe we should all go dark, no phones, no internet-connected computers, no licenses, no education, no bank accounts, no loans, no credit cards, just candles and pencil and paper. Maybe some of the things we have said on CA will come back to haunt us. Without a conscience, the government could really hurt us, making us homeless and having to live under bridges, turning us into cold, hungry dumpster-divers. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Maybe we should all go dark, no phones, no internet-connected computers, no licenses, no education, no bank accounts, no loans, no credit cards, just candles and pencil and paper. Maybe some of the things we have said on CA will come back to haunt us. Without a conscience, the government could really hurt us, making us homeless and having to live under bridges, turning us into cold, hungry dumpster-divers. Those currently born and living in the US don't have a clue as to what a "police state" looks like YET. The time is coming Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 6, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 6, 2015 Maybe we should all go dark, no phones, no internet-connected computers, no licenses, no education, no bank accounts, no loans, no credit cards, just candles and pencil and paper. I'm not sure what you are saying. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 In order to reduce the amount of spying on us by government agencies, we could go low tech, or no tech, and avoid being tracked or monitored by not getting licenses, no bank, credit, phone, or internet accounts, no income tax returns, etc. Maybe a few employers might pay in cash, but not many. We could use snail mail to communicate, but maybe not always. If we feel threatened by snooping, we could create a number of aliases making it more difficult to track our movements. The OP referred just to cell phone accounts, but the web is connected to devices that remember everything, and the web will give up its secrets to those who are capable of mining them. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 police state noun a totalitarian state controlled by a political police force that secretly supervises the citizens' activities. supervise verb observe and direct the execution of (a task or activity) I do believe people are vastly stretching the definition to a point of 'not really'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 10, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2015 CoAspen, I would have responded the same way a few years ago. Check out this alternative view: Inverted totalitarianism is a term coined by political philosopher Sheldon Wolin in 2003 to describe the emerging form of government of the United States. Wolin believes that the United States is increasingly turning into an illiberal democracy, and uses the term "inverted totalitarianism" to illustrate similarities and differences between the United States governmental system and totalitarian regimes such as Nazi Germany and the Stalinist Soviet Union.[1][2][3][4] In Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt by Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco, inverted totalitarianism is described as a system where corporations have corrupted and subverted democracy and where economics trumps politics.[5] In inverted totalitarianism, every natural resource and every living being is commodified and exploited to collapse as the citizenry is lulled and manipulated into surrendering their liberties and their participation in government through excess consumerism and sensationalism.[6][7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Everytime I see your topic, Meanwhile!....the thought pops into my head....., back at the ranch! Old song lyrics... There could be some valid discussion with what you posted. Not sure I buy into all of it...but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 10, 2015 Members Share Posted March 10, 2015 Everytime I see your topic, Meanwhile!....the thought pops into my head....., back at the ranch! Old song lyrics... LOL ... that's exactly what enters my mind, as well, along with visions of the Ponderosa, Pa, Little Joe, and Hoss... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 As the masses argue about their rhetorical differences our governments quietly continue work on their real agenda: Maybe some here believe that the USA government's cellphone and internet spying programs on its citizens are benign, but the information gathered could be used to determine who are potential enemies of the state and where they are located. Anyone seeming to be critical of the government could be targeted by freezing financial assets, denial of credit, loss of jobs, all leading to loss of housing and vehicles. I wouldn't take the spying too lightly. Now Paw, Little Joe, and Hoss, all they had to worry about was getting scalped by Indians, getting shot by horse thieves, or getting the consumption. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.