Disturbing text

[Kevin H]

Disturbing verse, Jeremiah 31:22 "How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man."
 

Bible commentaries tend to explain away this text. Some say that this means that the woman will headship of her son when he is small. then when he grows up of course he takes over headship. Others apply it specifically to Mary saying that she had headship when Jesus was a boy but of course he grew up into headship. Others apply it to Israel saying that she will be the headship country over the other countries.
 

Dr. Jim Fleming says that the text should be taken literally. He argues that in Israel/Judah that the men and women were equal. then when taken to Babylon that the equality was taken away as the Babylonians believed in and practiced male headship. Dr. Fleming argues that this text is a promise from God that when they are called out of Babylon that God would not merely restore the equality that men and women shared before the exile, but to make up for that loss in equality that God would allow women to be in a headship position.
 

Now whether we are to take the quote as symbolic of a mother or Mary or Israel, or whether we are to take it literally; why would God use a sin as a symbol of being in the Messiah and being called out of Babylon? How would we feel if there was a verse in the Old Testament talking about the age of the Messiah as worshiping on Sunday and having a pork barbecue? Yet, whether we take the text literally or symbolically God still used women's headship as the sign of being called out of Babylon. 

 

[Gail]

It's interesting... the NET stresses the uniqueness or newness part of the verse, while Rotherham puts a very strong emphasis on "a female", which gives the impression that it really is a novel idea.

Keep at it!

[phkrause]

 

Disturbing verse, Jeremiah 31:22 "How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man."

 

Bible commentaries tend to explain away this text. Some say that this means that the woman will headship of her son when he is small. then when he grows up of course he takes over headship. Others apply it specifically to Mary saying that she had headship when Jesus was a boy but of course he grew up into headship. Others apply it to Israel saying that she will be the headship country over the other countries.

 

Dr. Jim Fleming says that the text should be taken literally. He argues that in Israel/Judah that the men and women were equal. then when taken to Babylon that the equality was taken away as the Babylonians believed in and practiced male headship. Dr. Fleming argues that this text is a promise from God that when they are called out of Babylon that God would not merely restore the equality that men and women shared before the exile, but to make up for that loss in equality that God would allow women to be in a headship position.

 

Now whether we are to take the quote as symbolic of a mother or Mary or Israel, or whether we are to take it literally; why would God use a sin as a symbol of being in the Messiah and being called out of Babylon? How would we feel if there was a verse in the Old Testament talking about the age of the Messiah as worshiping on Sunday and having a pork barbecue? Yet, whether we take the text literally or symbolically God still used women's headship as the sign of being called out of Babylon. 

 

Here's how the CJB translates this verse: 22 How long will you hesitate, you unruly daughter? For ADONAI has created something new on earth: a woman with the strengths of a man.

Here's how the Tanach translates this verse: 21 How long will you hide, O backsliding daughter? For the Lord has created something new on the earth, a woman shall go after a man. & here's Rashis Commentary of this verse: will you hide: will you hide from Me, that you are ashamed to return to Me because of your way? Behold, something new has been created on earth, that a woman shall go after a man to seek him that he should marry her. This is an expression of “and I will go around (וַאֲסוֹבְבָה) in the city; I will seek, etc.” (Song 3:2). And in the name of Rabbi Judah the Preacher I heard: A woman shall turn around to become a man. I gave you like a daughter, who receives a tenth of the property of her father, seven nations out of seventy. Ultimately, you shall take everything like a son, a male, who inherits everything.

[Gerry Chudleigh]

I don't know what this text means, but it seems to me that your question complicates the matter by using the word "headship." No form of the word head or headship is found here. Our brothers and sisters who advocate an eternal principle of male headship have created the idea that men are to have the last word on all important family and church decisions and that women are to submit. Relations between men and women are about authority and submission. If fact, in their system the pastor has authority over the local church, whose members submit to him. Jesus said "it shall not be so among you" and taught and demonstrated a different kind of leadership -- servanthood.

It seems clear that this text is promising a future where the role of women is upgraded, but if we drop headship out of the equation the role of women may be upgraded to something more like mutual respect and mutual servanthood, not authority or dominance. Still, your point that a prophet of God would not use "sinful" female equality as a symbol of His future blessings, is worth thinking about.

[Kevin H]

Gerry, while I have not done an exhaustive study of this text, I've done an overview study and from what I've read, despite disagreements in what the text is talking about, they tend to agree that the word "compass" or "encircle" does mean headship. Then they apply it to either boys submitting to their mothers (was that a new thing when coming out of Babylon?) or Jesus submitting to a woman, his mother Mary as a child. Or the other nations submitting to Israel.

Flemming argues that the mutual respect and mutual servant hood was in Israel prior to Babylon. That this is God's ideal. But that in Babylon men would compass or encircle women. Men were definitely the head and women had to submit. And that this upset God so much that he promised that he would not merely restore what they lost (which is what you suggest and which I see as God's plan and ideal). But that this is something special to make up for what they had to endure under Babylon.  I'm sure that women have the freedom to choose not to go that far and inflict upon men what Babylon inflicted upon them. But I think that here is that men should be so willing to correct the errors of Babylon that they would not insist on equality but be willing to make up for Babylon's headship theology by a willingness to submit to women.

Either way this text does not support headship theology. It makes male headship theology an issue of the false doctrines of Babylon and that the sign of having come out of Babylon and living in the messiah is a wiliness to allow women to have headship if they wished.

We claim to be Seventh-day Adventists. We claim to believe in the 3 angel's message. "And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

² And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

³ For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

⁴ And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

⁵ For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

⁶ Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double."

Jeremiah 31:22 gives a specific example  of the iniquity of Babylon that upset God. So why do we want to keep this sign of being in Babylon as God's ideal and Jeremiah's sign that we have come out of Babylon as a sin?

[Kevin H]

The one verse is given in the context of going through some hard times. The other is in the context of the promise God made to make up for the hard times.

[Unchained]

I think that the following explanation of this passage is very plausible:

"tesovev, literally means encircles, but should be translated here metaphorically to mean “court” or “woo” as in "courting a woman."”

for the source and the full argument see:
http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/200/what-is-the-meaning-of-encircled-in-jeremiah-3122
(scroll down to the comment made by Amichai)

[Kevin H]

Yes, that is part of the linguists point out in all this word implies!