NY13 Campaign - A Massive Effort with Minimal Results?

[Unchained]

NY13 Campaign - A Massive Effort with Minimal Results

"The numbers are in for the evangelistic campaign targeting metro New York in 2013, spearheaded by General Conference President, Ted Wilson. And they do not tell a compelling story in favour of the campaign." [...]

"The results speak for themselves.  A huge effort was committed to this programme, both by clergy and laity. Significant resources were consumed. And the outcome evidently was no different than if the exercise had not been undertaken."

Source: http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2015/06/09/ny13-campaign-massive-effort-minimal-results

The article quoted above was somewhat critical of the effort, in marked contrast to the official report which can be found here: http://www.ny13.org/site/1/NY13 REPORT/NY13_Booklet_web_ready.pdf

In the report Ted Wilson writes:

The Lord worked in a marvelous way as thousands of lay people, pastors, evangelists, and administrators worked together to reach the hearts of the people of the metropolitan New York area...

 

Do you have any opinions about the NY13 campaign... Was it a failure? A success? Should we give up massive evangelistic campaigns like this or should we go ahead and plan another one?

 

[B/W Photodude]

When a massive crusade like this occurs, you can not judge the success/failure by the number of baptisms that occur at the time of the crusade. Many anecdotal stories can be told of seeds planted that yield results at a later time. One story that I heard regarding this event is that one Sabbath afternoon, a group went out door to door and came back with over 100 names of people interested in Bible studies. You would have a hard time quantifying these kind of results as Bible studies can take a long time and, of course, requires a commitment on the part of the membership.

I do worry about people that judge the success/failure of a crusade by the numbers baptized. I am sure that somewhere someone has done an analysis of the cost per person baptized and may feel it was too much. I am sure that if only one was saved, heaven considers it worth it. Hindsight analysis while good for some projects may not be the best way to judge. Prayerfully considering the results during planning for future events is prudent.

[phkrause]

I have to agree BW, when planting seeds, they can take a long time or a short time. We never know. There is a great parable that Jesus tells about the seeds that are planted. Personally its very unfair to judge evangelistic meetings based on the number that are baptized.

[Tom Wetmore]

But compare the repeated proclamations of the success of efforts measured in the numbers of baptisms. Few question the success of those campaigns  that yield immediate and high numbers of baptisms.  They are widely proclaimed a great success. Yes, seeds are planted in every evangelism effort. But if those seeds show no growth in membership in the future, one has to question the expenditure of a huge amount of resources, when such are indeed limited, to achieve doubtful results.  This was all in all a very traditional approach to evangelism, just done on a widespread coordinated basis.  Maybe the methods need to be reconsidered.  Is there an approach that would plant seeds with a higher crop yield?  Baptisms is still the measure of effectiveness of any outreach effort, like it or not.  

Edited June 13, 2015 by Tom Wetmore

[Gerr]

Did the enormous risk of leaving the 99 to seek the one lost sheep a success or a failure?  If Jesus would have died even for 

just one person, what does say about the success of a huge campaign with only a few baptisms?

[Unchained]

Thanks to everyone for voicing your opinions! 

[Gail]

At the store we recently had a customer tell us that a Desire of Ages that had been given to him had sat on a shelf for 20 years and through a hectic, party-filled life. At the end of his rope the man finally gave the book a shot, and it was by reading it that he was converted. That was a conversion that saved his mortal life also.

You just never know.

[JoeMo]

Even if an incredible number of people were caught up in the revival spirit and were baptized, how many usually stay in the SDA church after baptism?  I have been involved with many large traditional evangelistic efforts where hundreds were baptized; but after a year or two very few people remained as active SDA's.  That being said, most just "move on" to another Christian denomination rather than give up on Jesus.

With this in mind, should our evangelistic efforts be put towards bringing saints to Christ or bringing them to the SDA denomination?  I think it's the former.  My personal experience also leads me to believe that our efforts as individuals to bring people to Christ yield more lasting converts than corporate efforts.  Many traditional evangelistic outreaches are big fancy "entertaining" events.  Then when the evangelistic team leaves, people find out that most SDA congregations aren't that different from other conservative denominations - dull, dry and repetitive (by the standards of the world); with lots of veteran members making sure that new folks tow the line - reminding them of their sins of smoking, drinking, jewelry, immodest dress, women wearing pants, and the evils of cheese and animal flesh.  The newbies go elsewhere because they feel judged.

This is NOT the case with all SDA congregations, but in my experience, it has been the norm (at least in the U.S.).

[pierrepaul]

Fascinating. My experience has been the opposite where there is a wide diversity of opinion and practice within the SdA congregations on matters of food, drink and dress. (Smoking is the exception as it seems to be universally condemned and non-smoking in the congregations I have been a member of trends pretty close to 100%).

[Johann]

It has been my experience that the best and lasting results is obtained when the local church is involved in winning souls. An active youth society can win more souls than an evangelist.

[LifeHiscost]

Did the enormous risk of leaving the 99 to seek the one lost sheep a success or a failure?  If Jesus would have died even for 

just one person, what does say about the success of a huge campaign with only a few baptisms?

Noah preached for 120 years with only eight being saved from the flood. Noah gave both activity of industry and word of mouth. Since he was called of God, who am I to say God must have given him bad advice.

…5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. 6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."…1 Corinthians 10  bold theirs' LHC

God is Love!  Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

 

 

Do you have any opinions about the NY13 campaign... Was it a failure? A success? Should we give up massive evangelistic campaigns like this or should we go ahead and plan another one?

 

14Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.…Mark 16

17"Lo, for my own welfare I had great bitterness; It is You who has kept my soul from the pit of nothingness...Isaiah 38

After all my effort if all I were to see in conversions was my own soul, those efforts would not have been misplaced. I am only a seedsower. The Lord is Master of the harvest.

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

[B/W Photodude]

Perhaps the people who became baptized and then later for whatever reason "dropped out," is what was behind the parable of the sower and the seed. Some will fall on good ground and some will fall into areas choked with weeds or where shallow roots will form as in the stony areas beside the good earth. Jesus never said make sure your seeds fall onto good earth, he was describing what would happen. Perhaps a read of this parable in Christ Object Lessons should be considered good reading before beginning any evangelism crusade.

Also, people get discouraged with poor results. You just have to plan for poor results sometimes. EGW discussed how some become discouraged by poor results and never make another effort in the work of bringing the gospel to others.

[LifeHiscost]

 Jesus never said make sure your seeds fall onto good earth

God is Love!  Jesus saves!  

[Sojourner]

If we as SDA's believe that we have been given the Three Angels Message to share with the world, is the message of the first angel not a message of Evangelism? I would continue with as many evangelistic efforts as we can physically handle. The youth pastor and several of the youth from our church in Australia went to the Philippines for a crusade and baptised well in excess of 200 people. More people wanted to be baptised and were physically prevented by others to do so. 

I know a lady who was born again at a Franklin Graham crusade held in the 1990's. I was a volunteer at that crusade and it was heavily criticised at the time for being a "waste of resources". Yet this lady who was a sole parent at the time with two small daughters now grown up all attend a Church of Christ fellowship that they were followed up by after the crusade. There were a number of people that went forward on the three nights, yet even if this lady and her daughters were the only ones that made a commitment I would still say it was totally worthwhile and something that the churches in my city need to have a look at doing again. 

[Lauralea]

I think we need to continue to work the cities in a variey of ways including large crusades but also one to one activities health evangelism and perhaps urban missionaries. Also New York is unusual because Anglo American Protestants are a minority. Most whites are Jews or Catholics and it can be more difficult to reach these demographic groups. I am half Jewish and from NY and used to work in health evangelism there btw this is not a slur just an observation. Also most NYC Adventist churches have few Caucasians and may not be nearby their homes which may make them feel less at home attending there. There is an individual interest in religion. Religion is personal for many there. Bringing our media ministries to their attention may be helpful. We also may need church plants or health ministries  including in areas of the city where there are now few Adventists.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Lauralea

[Gerr]

Looking at the ratio of the lost to the saved, God must have expended massive amount of resources in emptying vault of heaven for such minimal results.

[Gregory Matthews]

I have lived in New York City twice--once for 3 months and once for 6 months.

I attended many SDA Congregations all over the city.

AS a general rule, I found that congregations associated with one Conference had vibrant programs that met the needs of their members, while congregations associated with the other Conference were struggling and did not have programs that were effective.

Yes, there were exceptions.  But, I found the above to be generally true.

 

[JoeMo]

In my 40 years in the SDA Church, I have only participated in one large evangelistic meeting that had any long-term fuit; and that was a 1777 Crusade held in Albuquerque NM by Ken Cox.  The wheels have come off every other big effort with 6 weeks of the evangelistic team leaving; and all the "entertainment" value of church left with them.  Once the great music and bible teaching leave, so do the converts who though they were joining some vibrant thriving "alive" church.  In my experience, one-on-one or small group evangelism provides better educated and longer lasting believers.

[LifeHiscost]

In my 40 years in the SDA Church, I have only participated in one large evangelistic meeting that had any long-term fuit; and that was a 1777 Crusade held in Albuquerque NM by Ken Cox.  The wheels have come off every other big effort with 6 weeks of the evangelistic team leaving; and all the "entertainment" value of church left with them.  Once the great music and bible teaching leave, so do the converts who though they were joining some vibrant thriving "alive" church.  In my experience, one-on-one or small group evangelism provides better educated and longer lasting believers.

Maybe that's why Kenneth Cox has been preaching so long since it takes him longer than most to do the harvesting. If I'd been working since 1777, I'd be worn out. LoL

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[JoeMo]

Maybe that's why Kenneth Cox has been preaching so long since it takes him longer than most to do the harvesting. If I'd been working since 1777, I'd be worn out. LoL

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

Ken looks pretty good for being over 250 years old, huh? 

That should have been 1977 ...