Is Islam in the Book of Revelation 9 as Explained below?

[samkadya]

Revelation 9:1-4 Commentary

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. Rev 9:1-4. KJV

 

Here a new religion is brought to view: a star fallen from Heaven. It mixes some good teachings with some evil ones like 'smoke' out of the 'bottomless pit'.

 

Islam began by condemning the evil of idolatry as practised in the Roman Catholic Church; and in that it was right. Indeed there is only one God; and no one is to be worshipped but Him. But the teachings of Islam, which were a necessary scourge to an apostate Church, brought further 'smoke' into the world.

 

In the Greek the 'bottomless pit' means any desolate wilderness, and thus fitly represents the desert of Arabia where the Muslim invaders came from in such numbers that they looked like locust swarms.

 

One day King Chosroes II of Persia received a letter from an obscure citizen of Mecca, inviting him to recognise Mohammed as the prophet of God. The king contemptuously tore the letter up, and rejected the prophet's claims. Little did he know that soon he himself would be deposed, and his kingdom destroyed, and that this strange prophet prophet from Mecca would dominate the world. The fall of Chosroes is said by some to have been the 'key of the bottomless pit', because Mohammed could not have arisen to power without the Persian kingdom falling first. Then the Saracens from Arabia were 'given power', and multiplied immensely until they became as numerous as swarming locusts. One writer, not thinking of the book of Revelation, said of these followers of Mohammed: 'Like locusts, the Osmanlis swarmed in all directions, and no village missed their notice up to the very walls of Constatinople.'¹ They struck like angry scorpions, using cruel and vengeful forms of warfare.

 

When Mohammed died, he was succeeded in AD 632 by Abu Bakr, who gathered the Arabian tribes for further conquests. He instructed his followers to respect the religious convictions of people who observed the law of God faithfully. His men were to scourge only those who worshipped idols. He commanded his soldiers: 'Let not your victory be stained with the blood of women or children. Destroy no palm trees, nor burn any fields of corn. Cut down no fruit trees, nor do any mischief to cattle, only such as you kill to eat... As you go on, you will find some religious persons who live retired in monasteries, and propose to themselves to serve God that way; let them alone, and neither kill them nor destroy their monasteries: and you will find another sort of people that belong to the Synagogue of Satan, who have shaven crowns; be sure you cleave their skull and give them no quarter till they either turn Mohammedans or pay "tribute".'2

 

Who were the people with the 'seal of God in their foreheads' that Abu Bakr's soldiers were commanded to spare? All through history there have been faithful observers of the Lord's true Sabbath, which is the 'seal of God' (see chapter seven). In the days of Mohammed and Abu Bakr there were such faithful ones. It seems that a higher authority than Mohammed overruled for the protection of His faithful people!

 

The Arabians used horses extensively in their wars of conquest. The 'crowns; may be the turban, which was for a long time a national head-dress of the Arabians. The soldiers had long hair.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The above is a chapter from a book, The Gospel in Revelation, by Robert J Wieland.  Probably a good idea to state the source when quoting something, such as the above.

In addition, the book was published in 1989 and is under copyright law, I believe.   Not sure how the entire book has become available gratis on the internet:

http://www.richardlemay.com/ENG/LIV/WIE/GIR/Index.htm 

and whole chapters:  http://www.christiansermonsandmusicvideos.com/2015/01/what-bible-says-about-rise-of-islam.html 

[JoeMo]

I believe that fundementalist Islam is as much (or more of) a candidate to be the antichrist power than the RCC.

[8thdaypriest]

I believe that fundementalist Islam is as much (or more of) a candidate to be the antichrist power than the RCC.

I would agree - "as much".  Don't know about "more". 

I personally believe the Ram of Daniel 8, is Islam.  And the "two horns" are Sunni and Shia - the two houses of Islam.  I think the West is going to crush the Islamic expansion.  After that battle we will see the "notable horn" (I believe that's the United States) "broken without hand" through economic collapse.  Then four LAST great powers will vie for dominance.  The "terrible" 4th Beast will win dominance worldwide, and the little horn (on the Beast) will persecute the people of God, who will not violate God's commandments in service to that power. 

[Kevin H]

William Miller applied the seals, the trumpets and the plagues to events over history. While Mrs. White made a comment about Josiah Litch's prophecy which many Adventists latch on to; Mrs. White does no more than mention in passing about a dramatic fulfillment, but beyond something happening to help bring credibility to the Millerite movement, she does not go any farther.

But on the other hand Mrs. White differs from Miller in that she does not apply the plagues to over history, but to the very end of time. But in that application she says: Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded; vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Ellen G. White, Selected Messages (Washington DC: Review and Herald Publishing Assoc, 1958), 3:426  People try to make arguments to say that this does not mean more than using trumpets in a general way and want to defend the tradition. However, Elder James White was not happy with Uriah Smith going with the traditional application in Daniel and Revelation (and he wrote D and R before Mrs. White wrote much of the Great Controversy so he did not have the advantages of her later writings at the time. And he lamented that there was so much more to learn about Daniel and Revelation than he had a chance to learn.) and in the literary structure of Revelation the trumpets sound AT the opening of the 7th seal which are the closing events of earth's history. In Elder Kenneth Strand's Chiasm of Revelation connects the trumpets to the plagues. Now in his writing he has placed an artificial line in the middle calling it the historical half and future half. I asked him about it and he told me that there were people in power that demanded that he make it support the traditional view or to find a new job and that was his solution to that problem.

As I had it presented in Revelation class at AUC the trumpets are the events pressuring people to make their final decision leading to the close of probation and the plagues are the results of probation having closed and God turns us over to our choice and the vial's of God's wrath are poured into the ground so that God's wrath is no longer holding sin in check.

I have not looked too closely at this but I once read an interesting comment in a Bible Commentary. I believe it was the Anchor Bible Commentary; however the author pointed out that when the High Priest would leave the sanctuary at the close of the day of atonement ministry that 7 trumpets would sound.

I believe that fundementalist Islam is as much (or more of) a candidate to be the antichrist power than the RCC.

The Bible talks about many antichrists. The Flavian Emperors sound very much like Daniel 7. There were 10 Roman Emperors, they plucked up 3 to come into power, and Titus destroyed the temple and his brother Dominatian was the one who sent John to Patmos. The Papacy was the antichrist during the 5th head. However the last antichrist will be very supportive of "Christianity" but of a sticky sweet generic Christianity that Satan is currently herding the church into. Islam will also be herded into this. It will look like a wonderful time for Christians so that if it was possible it would deceive the very elect. Pray tell me what part of Fundamentalist Islam could deceive the very elect?

[JoeMo]

 However the last antichrist will be very supportive of "Christianity" but of a sticky sweet generic Christianity that Satan is currently herding the church into. Islam will also be herded into this. It will look like a wonderful time for Christians so that if it was possible it would deceive the very elect. Pray tell me what part of Fundamentalist Islam could deceive the very elect?

It's not so much that the "religion" of Islam will deceive the very elect; but the world government (caliphate?) which would result.  Unlike Christianity, Islam is an entire world view that envelops religion, politics, government, the economy, and society.  Christians in the Middle East lived under a Caliphate for centuries; and paid dearly.  Those currently living under ISIS are experiencing the same.  Christians living there either hide their faith, pay a steep "infidel tax", try to escape, or lose their heads. It wasn't that long ago that I wondered how beheading would be a common practice for executing Christians.  Now I know.

Furthermore, scripture talks about deceiving the very elect should it be possible (Matt. 24:24 and Mark 13:22).  I infer from this that it may not even be possible to deceive the very elect, regardless of the deception.

One way nominal Christians and the world could be decieved is by compromising biblical principles and complying with government (or world religion) mandated morality, politics, and economics.  One specific area is the EU moving towards a cashless society.  Denmark has a goal to eliminate cash by the end of 2016.   Greece is considering replacing the Euro with the bitcoin as a currency.  In a cashless society, all transactions would be carried out with an account number and a PIN or an equivalent "biometric" ID.  If your behavior and activity don't jive with the secular rules of the prevailing powers, they simply "turn off" your ID; making it impossible to buy and sell.  Contrary to certain theologies, I believe that enforcement of the mark of the beast happens in the marketplace; not the church.  Many people who fear losing access to the marketplace will conform with the rules of the world rather than suffer for upholding divine principle.

 

[Kevin H]

JoeMo, your last paragraph is quite telling. This global economic state is coming from American corporations and rather than Islam conquering us, they too will have to submit to the growing economic pressures. It is this economic system that is the 7th head. It is different from the others that it does not get power from the sward but from people joining for the peace and economic advantages of joining.

[8thdaypriest]

I personally know many folks in this small Texas town, who fear loosing their social support system (friends) more than they fear breaking the Laws of God.  God will forgive them.  Their friends will NOT !! 

If your Christian beliefs tell you that you are already saved, and God will forgive you for breaking His law (if that's what you HAVE to do for food, clothing, and shelter) - then why obey?  There's no danger to your soul. 

It's easy to see how Christians will blend in. 

[Aliensanctuary]

I suppose it might be possible that if the Vatican is attacked and popes and prelates are killed, that the new leadership might call on all good Catholics to arm themselves and defend their religion against terrorists.

[Johann]

Which is more important to us, The seal of God, or the mark of the beast?

Have you noticed that the Bbile calls the Ten Commandments the Covenant? Hebrew scholars tell us that the language of the Commandments are the language of a covenant and not a prohiition.

In the middle of this covenant you have the expression "Remeber" That is part of the covenant. Within this covenant with our Creator we serve no other gods, we worship on no other day, we do not steal or  speak an untruth. So in this covenant you keep the seventh-day Sabbath and no other day, neither the first nor the sixth day of the week.

Legalism will deministh the importance of the this covenant by making it merely a set of "Thou shalt nots" in order to gain salvation.

When our friends, Lea and Gudmundur Olafsson, dropped by a coupe of days ago this was the gist of our conversation. Before they left Lea reminded us that it was when Gudmundur was my student back in 1954-5 and I wrote some words in Greek and Hebrew on the blackboard, that he hearc a voice from behind telliing him that this was to be his special study, so he went far ahead and became a teacher of Old Testament at Newbold College and at Pacific Union College. We had gone through this before and it is a blessing each time we renew this covenant idea.

 

[Unchained]

I think a big problem with much of the historical interpretation of Revelation is that it's mainly eisegesis... To be honest I haven't found a single passage in Revelation that I've been able to apply to Islam. I don't believe the Revelation speaks about Islam in particular. Those who today speak the loudest about Islam are the same people that used to insist that the prophecies had a lot to say about the Soviet union.

[JoeMo]

Unchained,

How much do you know about Islamic history?  There are many prophecies in Revelation that could speak of Islam as well as the RCC.  If you can find them, read "The Dragon and the Beast" by Faith Jones, or just about anything by Joel Richardson or Joel Rosenberg.

[Geoarrge]

How does the 1260 day prophecy line up with Islamic history?

[Lauralea]

Islam is unlikely to be the main beast power in Revelation. It is more likely to have been described in Revelation 9, as being given power oven men for 150 days, as there were 150 years when it conquered a substantial part of the then known world. It also fought with the Catholic Church during the Crusades for centuries.  I believe the original interpretation of the Adventist Church to be correct, that it is the power discussed in Revelation 9.

[brotherly love]

I believe that fundementalist Islam is as much (or more of) a candidate to be the antichrist power than the RCC.

The RCC would not be an antichrist since it worships and acknowledges a risen Christ. Islam is an antichrist because it denies Christ

1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 1:7

I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

1 John 4:3

but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

[brotherly love]

I would agree - "as much".  Don't know about "more". 

I personally believe the Ram of Daniel 8, is Islam.  And the "two horns" are Sunni and Shia - the two houses of Islam.  I think the West is going to crush the Islamic expansion.  After that battle we will see the "notable horn" (I believe that's the United States) "broken without hand" through economic collapse.  Then four LAST great powers will vie for dominance.  The "terrible" 4th Beast will win dominance worldwide, and the little horn (on the Beast) will persecute the people of God, who will not violate God's commandments in service to that power. 

You say you personally believe that the ram of Daniel 8 is Islam and the two horns are sunni and shia sects. The next guy says it is something else..... so on and so forth. What is the common denominator? They all have been 100 percent wrong 100 percent of the time.

This is the result of imagination imposed onto the text. It is similar to a person reading and interpreting a Nostrodamus writing-this means that in order to make something fit. This really is not prophesy but divination and sensationalism.

Prophesy was about a situational crisis for the faithful at a certain time, it was to encourage them and guide them. Contained within these messages and part of the messages would be a Messianic prophesy, a prophesy of what they would endure would be worth it as it would change the world, and a time when God the curse would be lifted. There really is a small small percentage of prophesy devoted to far future events.

Put your feet in the shoes of whom the Bible was written to. To rip the message and historical situation out of their hands makes the bible generally meaningless to anyone other than those living in the 21 century. This makes the bible into a book that would be more likened to a schizophrenic than a book of wisdom and guidance.

 

 

schizophrenic

[8thdaypriest]

You say you personally believe that the ram of Daniel 8 is Islam and the two horns are sunni and shia sects. The next guy says it is something else..... so on and so forth. What is the common denominator? They all have been 100 percent wrong 100 percent of the time.

This is the result of imagination imposed onto the text. It is similar to a person reading and interpreting a Nostrodamus writing-this means that in order to make something fit. This really is not prophesy but divination and sensationalism.

Prophesy was about a situational crisis for the faithful at a certain time, it was to encourage them and guide them. Contained within these messages and part of the messages would be a Messianic prophesy, a prophesy of what they would endure would be worth it as it would change the world, and a time when God the curse would be lifted. There really is a small small percentage of prophesy devoted to far future events.

Put your feet in the shoes of whom the Bible was written to. To rip the message and historical situation out of their hands makes the bible generally meaningless to anyone other than those living in the 21 century. This makes the bible into a book that would be more likened to a schizophrenic than a book of wisdom and guidance.

 

 

schizophrenic

Daniel 8:26 Seal up the vision of the evenings and mornings. 

Daniel 11:4 “seal the book”

Daniel 11:9 “the words are sealed until the time of the end”

All these verses tell us that the prophecies of Daniel (repeated in the Book of Revelation) were NOT for the people of Daniel's time.  They were written FOR those who would be living at "the time of the END".  That is - the time leading up to the END - the END of this age - the Second Coming.  These prophecies will NOT be perfectly understood UNTIL that time.  We may conjecture concerning them.  We may pose likely scenarios.  But we will NOT see them fulfilled UNTIL "the time of the END". 

To say that the 1260 (time, times, and a part - 42 months) ENDED in 1798, just does not compute.  That time period LEAD UP TO the END.  1798 was NOT the END.  And to say that 1798 began the "time of the end" so that since then, we can all understand the prophecies - does not compute either. 

Daniel was told that he would "rise to your inheritance at the end of the days".  Far as I know - Daniel is still sleeping. 

[8thdaypriest]

Let me recommend a book.  "God's War on Terror - Islam, Prophecy, and the Bible"  by Walid Shoebat with Joel Richardson.  Mr Walid is a former Palestinian terrorist.  He speaks with complete understanding of the Islamic mindset. 

The author goes through the prophecies, point by point, and shows how Islam FITS the prophecies of the Beast.  He is arguing that ISLAM is the Beast.  And it really is a good fit.

The scenario I think is possible, is for the REAL Antichrist to deceive by ousting (by seeming miraculous means) the COUNTERFEIT Antichrist.  If ISLAM looks just like the BEAST, and fulfills those prophecies, and a "savior" shows up to oust this power, then the world will serve this "savior".  Right?

I think we will just have to wait for the unrolling of the scroll.  Until then, we should keep studying. 

[phkrause]

We had a pastor berry come to our church. He's had meetings that started last night, this morning for SS, and than for the worship hour and I believe will be there this evening and maybe tomorrow. I got to listen to him this morning for SS. I tried finding the exact title of the sermon online, but couldn't find it. I did however find one that was very similiar, with a few missing pieces.

"The Advent Movement" by Maurice Berry

What's missing is the part that talks about history repeating itself. As you will see, he talks about Islam in Bible Prophecy and how it was defeated back in 1840, and how its rising again, except this time on a global scale. He says it will be defeated again! When I find this sermon I will post it.

 

[brotherly love]

Daniel 8:26 Seal up the vision of the evenings and mornings. 

Daniel 11:4 “seal the book”

Daniel 11:9 “the words are sealed until the time of the end”

All these verses tell us that the prophecies of Daniel (repeated in the Book of Revelation) were NOT for the people of Daniel's time.  They were written FOR those who would be living at "the time of the END".  That is - the time leading up to the END - the END of this age - the Second Coming.  These prophecies will NOT be perfectly understood UNTIL that time.  We may conjecture concerning them.  We may pose likely scenarios.  But we will NOT see them fulfilled UNTIL "the time of the END". 

To say that the 1260 (time, times, and a part - 42 months) ENDED in 1798, just does not compute.  That time period LEAD UP TO the END.  1798 was NOT the END.  And to say that 1798 began the "time of the end" so that since then, we can all understand the prophecies - does not compute either. 

Daniel was told that he would "rise to your inheritance at the end of the days".  Far as I know - Daniel is still sleeping. 

It is not about the second coming nor the end of the world-the end is the ending of the indignation. In order to have an end, there has to be a beginning. The first chapter of Daniel shows us the beginning of this indignation. Daniel and Covenant Israel were led into captivity. This may seem trivial to a modern church, but this meant they were cut off from the presence of God and unable to practice the requirements of the Torah.

The covenant nation would be in exile and ruled by a succession of four kingdoms. Then there would be a great persecution and they would have their kingdom back despite great odds- hence ending the indignation.

God promised those who were loyal and prevailed with resurrection just like he promised Daniel.

Some see this with a gap and the 1948 secular Israel in mind, but this would hardly be likely. God rose up prophets to guide Covenant Israel, and none were raised before, during or after the secular state was formed. The founders of the secular state were actually not religious and were staunch atheists. This is a huge problem for a religious Jew to work around and most just resort to historical revisionism and re-interpret the prophets to suite their needs. The restoration from the first exile was predicted by the prophets, but everything is then ripped out from the original recipients hands.

One would have to embrace that God rose up bank robbers, terrorists and assassins to establish this state even though these actions go against Torah commandments.

1798 with Popes and napolean does not add up at all...this is a good observation! Now apply this same criticism to your exegesis. Speculation is speculation and trading one for another is troublesome.

What ends up hapenning is very solid Messianic prophesies in Daniel gets trampled...ones that the New Testament actually quote

[8thdaypriest]

I do NOT personally believe the modern nation of Israel, fulfills the promises of return.  85% are secular.  they inhabit only a small fraction of the "land" promised to Abraham.  I believe the "return" prophecies for Israel will be fulfilled for the LORD's redeemed Israel, who will be made a kingdom of priests.  They will be "returned to the land" AFTER the 7th millennium.  During the 7th millennium the earth will be desolate and uninhabited. 

I believe the present nation called "Israel" will be used by Satan.  She will become the Harlot, when she turns to the Beast power to preserve herself. 

[brotherly love]

I do NOT personally believe the modern nation of Israel, fulfills the promises of return.  85% are secular.  they inhabit only a small fraction of the "land" promised to Abraham.  I believe the "return" prophecies for Israel will be fulfilled for the LORD's redeemed Israel, who will be made a kingdom of priests.  They will be "returned to the land" AFTER the 7th millennium.  During the 7th millennium the earth will be desolate and uninhabited. 

I believe the present nation called "Israel" will be used by Satan.  She will become the Harlot, when she turns to the Beast power to preserve herself. 

You are correct that it is a secular state and it is not the Israel of the Tanakh. The Lord fulfilled His promise to them and fulfilled all the Land boundaries, and to be in the Land was conditional upon faith. It was never their land, it was God's land. Israel gathered around their King, and Israel went out to the world.

The return prophesies were to those who were exiled under the Covenant in a certain time and situation, to make this about a 21 century or beyond return is to deplete the text of its meaning. Could you imagine being exiled from your home and people who were encouraging you really were not talking about your yearning for home, but a second return 2500 years later?

The church before the cross was never intended to be a wooden literal kingdom of priests, and neither is the church after the cross. The references to the priesthood are given as an example to be set apart. The priesthood was to be set apart. Israel was to be set apart from the nations around it....we are to be a set apart people and an example to everyone.

As for the harlot, this again would have been unbelieving Israel who persecuted the believers after the cross and judgment was pronounced upon them. This happened after one generation as Jesus foretold. If not, the logical conclusion is the curses upon them would apply throughout the ages-This has real consequences that has hurt many.

[8thdaypriest]

Concerning ISLAM, did you know that Mohammed is believed by Muslims to be the intercessor who occupies "the Station of Intercession at the right of the Glorious Throne" ?  (Qur'an 17:79) (Living Islam, The Prophetic Title:  The Best of Creation" Dr. G.F.Haddad).  Mohammed is believed to be "the perfect One" and "the best of God's creation".  The Qur'an even teaches that Allah (God) shared His own name with Mohammed.  

Mohammed has taken the position of Christ, and has demoted the Son of God to a lesser role.  I'm learning all this from the book by Walid Shoebat, "God's War on Terror". 

 

[hch]

I believe that fundementalist Islam is as much (or more of) a candidate to be the antichrist power than the RCC.

My favorite author states that in the endtime apostate protestantism will pick up where the RCC left off.

[hch]

From my understanding of the Spirit of Prophecy. Revelation often speaks of the past, present, and future as it reveals the history of all nations and rulers.

The prophetic link to Islam that was revealed in the past and that is so true may not be the complete meaning that applies to the present or future.