Members phkrause Posted July 1, 2015 Members Share Posted July 1, 2015 Is it possible to lose your salvation? This is a long-debated issue in the Christian community. Beliefnet caught up with Regent University’s Divinity Professor, Dr. Clifton Clarke, to wrestle with five questions surrounding this.Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Articles/5-Questions-About-The-Once-Saved-Always-Saved-Doctrine.aspx#JwRaOXFxwHqJ0DA1.99 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Cry Radio Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 as a former LE for 25 years the phrase "once saved always saved" (often referring to Baptists by we Adventists during Sabbath school) is a phrase not used in the Christian world. You ask Christians about it and they say "Huh? Never heard that expression before." Actually it was a term used describing believers in predestination. However a Google search on Baptists who still believe reveals that ship has sailed for most of them with the odd exception (Primitive Baptists, etc.) Most Christians are right there with us on the fact that in spite of the free gift given to all, it is still possible to spurn the gift away and be lost in the end. Ellen White sums it up best when she says "God's love makes it HARD for the heedless and headstrong to be lost." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 We can proclaim the steps to Christ and avoid the falsehood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I don't believe that anyone is actually "saved" until they are stamped on their foreheads with the mark of YHVH, indicating that they are now members of his Kingdom. People today may believe that they are already "saved" and "born again", but they misinterpret the scriptures. The "born again" part comes when those who are chosen to join the Kingdom receive new bodies, not at all like their old, genetically damaged ones. DreamWeaver 1 Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I don't believe that anyone is actually "saved" until they are stamped on their foreheads with the mark of YHVH, indicating that they are now members of his Kingdom. People today may believe that they are already "saved" and "born again", but they misinterpret the scriptures. The "born again" part comes when those who are chosen to join the Kingdom receive new bodies, not at all like their old, genetically damaged ones. That doesn't seem to agree with this Word. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever....1 Peter God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamWeaver Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I proscribe to the understanding that a person isn't saved until their record is set in stone by either death or the Second Coming when the people who are alive are given the Seal of God. According to how I read the bible the Great Controversy is not over just yet. Jesus is still "saving" us. And until we are brought into the pearly gates to be with Him forever more, there is still a possibility for those who are alive to swap teams and either become saved or lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I don't believe that anyone is actually "saved" until they are stamped on their foreheads with the mark of YHVH, indicating that they are now members of his Kingdom. People today may believe that they are already "saved" and "born again", but they misinterpret the scriptures. The "born again" part comes when those who are chosen to join the Kingdom receive new bodies, not at all like their old, genetically damaged ones. There is no place in the Word where there is a mark of God. Rather the mark of the beast (king or kingdom) refers to a mark of usurped authority. God's children receive a sign of the sovereign God indicated by the 4th commandment.. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.....Revelation 9 20 In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.....Jeremiah 50 13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid....Zephaniah 3 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:....Ephesians 4 God's children are sealed by His Holy Spirit, evidenced by their behavior. God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20 In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.....Jeremiah 50
DreamWeaver Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There is no place in the Word where there is a mark of God. Rather the mark of the beast (king or kingdom) refers to a mark of usurped authority. God's children receive a sign of the sovereign God indicated by the 4th commandment.. God is Love! Jesus saves! Ezekiel 9:1-6 mentions a "mark" that's not bad. I think its technically close to having the Seal. But I know that there is also a bad kind of mark too which will be given at the end of time known as the Mark of the Beast (aka Sunday sacredness). The Sabbath will be the commandment that Satan attacks the most at that point in time. Actually... now that I remember the preceding chapters that go with this situation, it sounds a lot like the Seal of God because in this particular part of the bible the people turned their backs on the Lord's sanctuary and turned their faces toward to sun to worship it. And they also wept over a false Christ figure too named Tammuz. 9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand. 2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; 4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. 5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Don’t harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have placed the seal of God on the foreheads of his servants.” We all know what the presidential seal is. The seal, or logo, of YHVH indicates the entity to whom the human servants belong. Unfortunately, once marked, the servants of YHVH will become easy targets for those bearing the mark of the Beast who will slaughter them without mercy. I suspect that the seal/logo, of YHVH includes either 7 stars or 12 stars in its design. The seven would indicate the home planet of the servants: Earth. The twelve would indicate: YHVH's Kingdom of the Stars. Not exactly sure when the mark of YHVH is etched or stamped on the foreheads of his human slaves, but probably occurs soon after the wash-up in the River of Life when the old selfish, human nature and memories are deleted by the Spirit and the Laws of the Kingdom are downloaded into the mind. This is the event foretold by the prophecy of the 2nd Covenant. Any who refuse to wash up in the Living Water in order to be transformed by Spirit cannot enter into the Kingdom of YHVH and will be cast into outer darkness. If anyone wants to believe that they are already "saved" and "born again", they are free to do so, but I believe that those are future events foretold by Christ. Humans won't know that they're "saved" until they pass the life-or-death test and can stand before the Father unashamed because their transgressions have been deleted from their life records and their memories wiped clean. And so, they begin eternity with a clean slate, ready, willing, and able to serve their Master doing whatever tasks he assigns them because Self is dead and they are no longer capable of rebellion. It is only after passing the test that humans are "always saved" because the Laws of YHVH are then programmed into their minds and they have been chosen to join the Kingdom of YHVH. After programming, human obedience to YHVH's laws are like an instinct, automatic, and irresistible. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamWeaver Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) We all know what the presidential seal is. The seal, or logo, of YHVH indicates the entity to whom the human servants belong. Unfortunately, once marked, the servants of YHVH will become easy targets for those bearing the mark of the Beast who will slaughter them without mercy. I suspect that the seal/logo, of YHVH includes either 7 stars or 12 stars in its design. The seven would indicate the home planet of the servants: Earth. The twelve would indicate: YHVH's Kingdom of the Stars. Alien, I was on board... and then.... ya lost me. I don't think the mark will be something we humans can see on our foreheads. And I also don't think God wants us to be His "humans slaves" as you so interestingly put it. Edited July 21, 2015 by DreamWeaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I did read a version of the Bible once where the Messengers referred to themselves as slaves of God. Can't find it at the moment, though. I don't think that there's much difference between slaves and servants, except for our bad connotation of "slave". "Sharecroppers" might be another word to use for the destiny of most humans in the Kingdom. Sometimes I wake up early and these ideas pop into my brain. Since I believe that the Earth was terraformed and colonized by highly advanced beings and civilization, it's not difficult to see things from that viewpoint. After all, the huge city from space, the New Jerusalem, nearly 2/3 the size of the moon, won't be made out of mud bricks and stones, but metal and glass, with engines, navigation equipment, life-support systems, greenhouses, plumbing, toilets, etc. If we think only in primitive terms, we may be in for a really big surprise when starships battle over our heads for control of the Earth during the Last Days, as predicted in Rev. Alas, the writers of the scriptures were ignorant of highly advanced technology and instead believed in "miracles". Their "miracles" were really just technology that they couldn't explain or even comprehend. To them, miracles were magic. In time, belief in this technological viewpoint will sweep away the myth and superstition that often plagues readers of the scriptures. Once one can appreciate the extreme technology that it took to synthesize life, evolutionary theory will fall by the wayside and be discarded on the garbage pile of human history. Back to topic, Jesus was pointing to the future when he stated that all members of the Kingdom must be baptized by Water and the Spirit, which is the River of Life. The Spirit will "heal" the human mind, reprogramming it into willing obedience to the Creator and downloading the Laws of the Kingdom into our brains. The misguided may think and believe that they are already "saved", but under life-and-death conditions, they could fail the test and choose the Dark Side. Likewise, no one is "born again" in this life, although their lifestyles and thinking can be redirected towards the spiritual. Jesus was speaking about the transformation from our flawed and diseased bodies to the new, genetically pure bodies that those chosen to join the Kingdom will receive. These new bodies will likely all be clones, perhaps looking very much like the Son of Man, the future ruler of this world. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. 5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. Thank you, dreamweaver, for bringing those texts to my attention. I'm totally in agreement with you re: the affinity between the seal of God and His mark in the forehead. My understanding of the mark or seal of God on the forehead accepts the term as metaphorical. Both the mark of God and the mark of the beast would be spiritually included in that respect, one on the side of the Creator and the other on God's enemy, the accuser of the brethren, typifying the war started in heaven as described in the book of Revelation which continues on to this day. 7Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.....Revelation 12 17So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.....Revelation 12 a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”. Compare mixed metaphor, simile (def 1). 2. Metaphorically | Define Metaphorically at Dictionary.com dictionary.reference.com/browse/metaphoricallyDictionary.com God is Love! Jesus saves! DreamWeaver 1 Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamWeaver Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) My understanding of the mark or seal of God on the forehead accepts the term as metaphorical. Both the mark of God and the mark of the beast would be spiritually included in that respect, one on the side of the Creator and the other on God's enemy, the accuser of the brethren, typifying the war started in heaven as described in the book of Revelation which continues on to this day. God is Love! Jesus saves! I'm with you there. I believe its metaphorical/spiritual too. Edited July 21, 2015 by DreamWeaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I read the article through rather swiftly; so I may have misinterpreted. It appears to me that the article kind of mixed grace and works (like we still have to "help" Jesus to save us). I am not a fan of "once saved always saved"; but I am a fan of "once saved, always saved, as long as you stay saved". I agree with the author when he says that once you are saved, it is difficult to be unsaved. You literally must actively "divorce" yourself from God. Being the gentleman that He is, He will not drag you kicking and screaming into His Kingdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 How many times did Christ die on the cross? (1) What was the purpose of that death? (salvation for all) What is the only qualification for eternal life.......John 3:16? (belief) Conservative roots have kept many people from embracing the truth that they are saved, always. Conservatism wants to add all of the 'what if's'. Our 'works' emphasis of the past has stunted a faster growth in acceptance of salvation by the death of Christ. The seed of 'doubt' was planted in the Garden by Lucifer that God can't be trusted at His word. When we are out on the ocean, we stay safe when we are inside the boat. We are unsafe when we slip, fall or jump out. The boat is still there, we only have to climb back in to be safe again. More time has been spent on making people less sure of their salvation than on reassurance. What a shame. JoeMo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 More time has been spent on making people less sure of their salvation than on reassurance. What a shame. 26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”.....John 11 Sounds simple to me. God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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