pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Samie, these issues are inter-related. You cannot possibly hope to understanding justification or forgiveness without understanding sin! The same comment applies in regards to the questions I was asking you about the importance of believing the truth. This is all one issue, which is justification by faith. The fact that you conceive of these as separate issues means your perception of what is happening is very different. I'm asking questions of you to try to understand your thinking. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Regarding the justification and forgiveness issue, I invite you to respond to my post on this. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 OK. If you are not amenable to discussing one issue at a time, then consider me out of this discussion. Good day, my brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Samie said: OK. If you are not amenable to discussing one issue at a time, then consider me out of this discussion. Good day, my brother. You wanted to discuss whether justification is the same as forgiveness. I invited you to respond to the post discussing this. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 You're an interesting fellow to discuss things with, but it's sure a lot of work! Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 What is lot of work is when you try to discuss different issues at the same time. I am in fact trying it easier for you to discuss things by just focusing on one single issue, and discuss it to the finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 But you want to make it hard work by introducing into the discussion other issues, which although relevant, are not that mandatory to be first addressed before continuing on with what was initially started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, Samie said: What is lot of work is when you try to discuss different issues at the same time. I am in fact trying it easier for you to discuss things by just focusing on one single issue, and discuss it to the finish. No, Samie. People ask you questions, and you don't answer. This has been going on forever. I know when I ask a question, there's a 5% to 10% chance you'll answer, depending on the question. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 That the issue involves you and not me is clear in that I don't have any problems discussing things with other people, and I don't know anyone who doesn't have a problem discussing things with you. If you'd like to discuss the forgiveness vs. justification issue, I invite you to respond to my post. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I have about 15 minutes if you'd like to discuss this. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 If that's your perception of my personality, then why bother discussing with me, and then complain? I don't compel you or anyone else to discuss with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 By this I mean forgiveness vs. justification. Actually I'll discuss anything you want for 15 minutes. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 You're interesting to talk to. It's worth the work. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said: I have about 15 minutes if you'd like to discuss this. Your perception of my person tells me I am a wrong person you'll be discussing with. Have a good night's rest, my brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, Samie said: Your perception of my person tells me I am a wrong person you'll be discussing with. Have a good night's rest, my brother. Lol! Expected. Ok. We'll try again some other time. Samie 1 Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Samie Check out this pie-chart of world religions at... http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/mysticism/world_religions_populations.html ... and explain to me how you can say that none in the world are deceived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Is Justification the same as Forgiveness? Samie says, No, because: 1. We were yet sinners, hence yet unforgiven, when Christ died NAS Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 2. In that death we all died with Him, being His Body. NKJ 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. NAS 1 Peter 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. 3. But when He resurrected and we were made alive TOGETHER with Him, God has already forgiven us: NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions 4. And yet one purpose for which Jesus was resurrected was for our justification. KJV Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Therefore Forgiveness is not the same as Justification, otherwise, they would have occurred at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 43 minutes ago, Wingnut said: Samie Check out this pie-chart of world religions at... http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/mysticism/world_religions_populations.html ... and explain to me how you can say that none in the world are deceived? Did I say no one is deceived? What I remember is telling you it was the deceiver that deceived people, and not the hearts of those people that deceived them, as what you were trying to tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 hours ago, Samie said: Did I say no one is deceived? What I remember is telling you it was the deceiver that deceived people, and not the hearts of those people that deceived them, as what you were trying to tell me. So this is Satan's world, since most are deceived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 hour ago, Wingnut said: So this is Satan's world, since most are deceived? No. In a man's house, cockroaches outnumber the children 100 times over, but the house still belongs to the man, not to the roaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 24 minutes ago, Samie said: No. In a man's house, cockroaches outnumber the children 100 times over, but the house still belongs to the man, not to the roaches. So looking at the pie-graph of world religions, give me a % of people whom you think are deceived by the deceiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 4 minutes ago, Wingnut said: So looking at the pie-graph of world religions, give me a % of people whom you think are deceived by the deceiver. Sorry, I'm not into that kind of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 "It is impossible for me to say since there are good people in all religions" This was the answer I was expecting, and typed out before your reply. Pretty close, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Pretty close. I am not in a position to say, since there are both overcomers and non-overcomers in this world and I have no clue about the relative percentages. But Scriptures describe the number of the wicked as "sands of the sea", while the righteous as "little flock". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 We could talk from now to doomsday, and I know there are certain questions I will not get an answer to... 1) Specific commands we must do to overcome 2) Specific guidelines as to who are overcomers or not 3) That is why I knew you could not commit yourself to condemning any religion, because... 4) ... there are overcomer in all religions, right. 5) So if I ask you a question such as are all religions other than Christianity populated with deceived people....? I can hear the band strike up and Samie is about to do the two-step around this question? But I will ask it anyhoo... ... and type the response I expect, just so that you know how well I know you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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