Are we still suspicious towards the religious right?

[CoAspen]

A bit to much protestation that lazuras doesn't wish to be side tracked from topic of the thread. Very commendable that he wishes to say on topic. Everyone can start their own topic for what ever agenda they choose. I find it refreshing when people try to stay on/close to the topic as possible.

[doug yowell]

7 hours ago, CoAspen said:

 

I'm highly suspicious of right, left, up, down, when ever that person/persons feels that their perspective is the 'true' one......regardless of political persuasion.

 

Would that be because you are convinced that no one can actually know a true position on anything? Or is that suspicion only aplicable to all political perspectives?

[doug yowell]

8 hours ago, CoAspen said:

 

A bit to much protestation that lazuras doesn't wish to be side tracked from topic of the thread. Very commendable that he wishes to say on topic.

 

But the topic is suspicion of the Religious Right not merely whether or not the Religious Right is racist to the core. My questions are directly a part of the overall question as opposed to the several generalizations about all white, conservative Republicans. I grant anyone to bring up their suspicions based on their perceptions of existing racism. But is seems rather disingenuous to demand that the conversation only focus on the one perceived problem while a much greater problem is intentionally avoided. Condemning the mote while ignoring the beam? Harbingering the Religious Right has been a particular hobby of a large portion of our church for 35 years now but it has usually been because of their prophetic "insights" that Adventists think they have. Now that all of those dire (lying) predictions have proven to be nothing more than fear mongering why is the abortion/same sex marriage/family values that fueled the former suspicions suddenly off the table while the johnny-come-lately charges of racism are the only test of staying on topic? What's not commendable is a failure to speak out with equal passion against one of the greatest moral evils ever to proceed from the human heart.

[lazarus]

20 hours ago, doug yowell said:

Again, you avoided my main question about the moral comparison between the killing unborn children and racism but chose instead to reiterate charges about the alleged hidden motives and actions of only the racial issue.

Your question is a Red Herring. Like I said, start another thread if you like.

Quote

But is seems rather disingenuous to demand that the conversation only focus on the one perceived problem while a much greater problem is intentionally avoided.

  Who is demanding? Seems like YOU are demanding that we say that abortion is a greater crime than racism in the GOP. You can keep posting about that in this thread if you like.

I guess the thread should have gone like this...........

post 1: GOP.... right wing....suspicious.....blah blah

post 2: that's not true.... values....God....Democrats

post 3: What?....Trump....mexicans....racist

post 4: Black Babies Matter!!

post 5: Wow....yes they do

post 6: Why are we paying so much attention to the issues in right wing Christianity?

post 7: What about black on black crime?

post 8: Al Sharpton is a racist!!

post 9: .....White evangelical Christians are being persecuted in this country....lets take our country back...

post 10:....but.....

Quote

If not, I'm ok with that but at least let me know your intentions rather than to continue bashing away at my motives for believing what I believe.   

I have no idea what your motives are?

Quote

johnny-come-lately charges of racism are the only test of staying on topic? What's not commendable is a failure to speak out with equal passion against one of the greatest moral evils ever to proceed from the human heart.

LOL., Who fails to speak out with equal passion?

I've told you what I do. You know my position. Again, what do you actually do to fight abortion besides adopt a political position?

[doug yowell]

2 hours ago, lazarus said:

  Who is demanding? Seems like YOU are demanding that we say that abortion is a greater crime than racism in the GOP. You can keep posting about that in this thread if you like.

Who's demanding that? I only asked a question that you falsely deem a red herring so you can justify not having to answer it. It is, in fact, germane to having a calm and reasoned conversation. For if you are not convinced that unrestrained abortion is AS evil as the existence of racism in the GOP then we can never reach any mutual understanding of each others concerns. Racism in the GOP may exclude the overwhelming majority of it's religious faction leaving the charge (whether true or false, that still remains a disputable fact) of racism still to be determined by the evidence. Since I am labeled as one of the targets of the topic of this thread I think I can speak for what I have experienced for the past 35 years from an unbiased perspective. If the GOP had a political plank that included a statement about unabashed support for "white" advantage or a group of presidential candidates who openly advocated support for such an idea one would be well justified in labeling the RR as supporters of racism. But this is not the case. Conversely, if the GOP suddenly decided to adapt the Democratic party position and begin to advocate abortion "rights" they would lose 98%+ of all RR support. I don't know exactly why this is not understood by those like you who are suspicious of the political motives of the RR? Since most RRers don't see themselves as racists (and, quite frankly, probably aren't) and would never support any movement in that direction. In fact, they would lend great support against it. So

 

2 hours ago, lazarus said:

 

 it is only natural that they support actions against that which is no secret-the legalized killing of the unborn. So, yes, I admit that abortion is a greater evil than (alleged) racism in the GOP, just as it is a greater evil than (alleged) racism in the Democratic Party. And because it is, no one should question the political aspirations of any religious person to do away with it through the political process. What I am not convinced of is that it should be a given that white, religious, conservative Republicans are racist by nature and should therefore be viewed with suspicion.

[doug yowell]

2 hours ago, lazarus said:

I've told you what I do. You know my position. Again, what do you actually do to fight abortion besides adopt a political position?

No I don't. You only told me what you do but not how you morally view abortion. And what either you or I do is not the sole determinate of what is morally right or wrong. It only illustrates whether or not we really believe what we say we believe. If I admitted that I only vote against it would that make my position invalid? If I told you the several ways in which I've sought to change the abortion mindset would it make any difference to you? If I was a full time worker at a CPC would I still be accused of not doing anything other than demanding political power? What must I do to qualify as a legitimate RRer?

[CoAspen]

15 hours ago, doug yowell said:

Would that be because you are convinced that no one can actually know a true position on anything? Or is that suspicion only aplicable to all political perspectives?

I will add to my statement...when a person/persons believes they have the ONLY correct position and seeks to use that as a pass/fail line for others......how's that?

[doug yowell]

8 hours ago, CoAspen said:

I will add to my statement...when a person/persons believes they have the ONLY correct position and seeks to use that as a pass/fail line for others......how's that?

Still isn't clear. Obviously, some things ARE the only correct position that should serve as a pass/fail line for everyone, as you would probably agree. I don't want to misrepresent what you are getting at, that's why I asked. 

[Bravus]

On 11/14/2015 at 0:52 PM, BigMark said:

Matthew 25 speaks about the 10 virgins, the talents and the sheep and goats. What does that have to do with those less fortunate?

You may want to re-read the parable of the sheep and the goats, if you think it has nothing to do with those less fortunate.

[lazarus]

Quote

I only asked a question that you falsely deem a red herring so you can justify not having to answer it.

Unfortunately, It seems that we have reached an impasse.

[doug yowell]

2 hours ago, lazarus said:

Unfortunately, It seems that we have reached an impasse.

Ok, though I had hoped otherwise, it is as you wish. 

[stinsonmarri]

On 12/17/2015 at 2:12 AM, bonnie said:

PLease tell me what exactly he said and share that portion of the Constitution where it says what you claim. Does it say the US must accept any and all that demand to come here?

Did Trump place the pigs head in front of a mosque? Did Trump make threats to Los Angeles and NY City schools? 

 Should our government have a little firmer grasp on who is demanding to immigrate  here?Is the US government first and foremost obligated to protect US citizens from threats coming in?

Racist is a word that gets cheaper to use by the minute.A peanut butter sandwich is considered racist.

With all of that you didn't answer the question. What has Trump said that is racist. He may very well be,however I am seeing a lot of "He Wants to bar muslims and that really isn't what he said or was getting at. What else has he said please.

Ben Carson is another one that is accused but reading some of the accusations and then what he actually said is two different things

Other than the idiocy over the pyramids as if agreeing with the "experts' on that was somehow vital to the presidency

Bonnie: Here is the Constitution

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I never said anything about demands on coming here at all! Please kindly do not misquote me. This is what I said:

"Because Muslims come from many countries and it has to do with religion."

No one was doing outrageous things until Trump said what he sad and yes it is as if he put that pig head out there himself. He is acting just like Hitler. He didn't do all the deeds but what he said before he was elected German's begin to attack Jewish German people! That is what people like Hitler do insight people. Trump is no different then ISIS he insight hate!

Racism is always cheaper when it come to White people because they don't want to deal with the issue. So they said they are color blind, so I guess they don't see the different colors of flower, the sky, the grass or any of the beautiful colors in the world! Black people should be just grateful for what they get. Even though they have to fight harder, be neglected, mistreated, killed by some of the color blind people or their hated relatives or neighbors!!!!!!

Trump called Latino Immigrants "Criminals" And "Rapists.;" He, said Mexicans (And Other Hispanic Immigrants) Were "Killers" too.; He insisted the Mexican Government intentionally sends their criminals to the U.S.

He said to “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

The previous week, Trump addressed the Republican Jewish Coalition on Dec. 3, calling himself “a negotiator like you folks,” “You’re not going to support me even though I’ll be the best guy for Israel,”

Trump said “I have a great relationship with the blacks. I’ve always had a great relationship with the blacks.;”  “‘Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that.;” “A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market.;” “If I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I believe they do have an actual advantage.”  He gave this CSB graphic which falsely shows that most whites are killed by blacks!

Here are some of Ben Carson lies:

Ben was offered a full West Point scholarship, he said he tried to attack her with a hammer when his brother disarmed him.; Carson, then a junior with a key to a biology lab where he worked part time told The Wall Street Journal last month that he protected a few white students from the attacks by hiding them there.

It couldn’t be confirmed in interviews with a half-dozen of Mr. Carson’s classmates and his high school physics teacher. The students all remembered the riot. None recalled hearing about white students hiding in the biology lab, and Carson couldn’t remember any names of those he sheltered.; Carson said in a radio interview that, as a young doctor, he had a gun stuck in his ribs at a Popeye’s restaurant in Baltimore near Johns Hopkins University. “A guy comes in and puts a gun in my ribs. And I just said, ‘I believe that you want the guy behind the counter,’” Mr. Carson said. “He said, ‘Oh, okay.’” The Baltimore Police Department later said it couldn’t find a report matching the incident Mr. Carson described.

Carson even lied to my family in New Haven claiming he came from the project. He lived a middle class home in Detroit. There is a picture of it. There are other lies look in Wall Street Journal Nov 6, 2015

 Blessings! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bonnie]

On 12/17/2015 at 11:25 PM, stinsonmarri said:

 Here is the Constitution

 

 

Amendment I

 

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I never said anything about demands on coming here at all! Please kindly do not misquote me. This is what I said:

"Because Muslims come from many countries and it has to do with religion."

No one was doing outrageous things until Trump said what he sad and yes it is as if he put that pig head out there himself. He is acting just like Hitler. He didn't do all the deeds but what he said before he was elected German's begin to attack Jewish German people! That is what people like Hitler do insight people. Trump is no different then ISIS he insight hate!

You need to read a little more carefully. Congress has not established a religion as far as I know. 

1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, a.k.a. the McCarran-Walter Act (An act to revise the laws relating to immigration, naturalization, and nationality; and for other purposes)

H.R. 13342; Pub.L. 414; 182 Stat. 66.

82nd Congress; June 27, 1952.

You can find the full text of this law here or download the PDF.

 

SUMMARY

Otherwise known as the McCarran-Walter Act, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 was meant to exclude certain immigrants from immigrating to America, post World War II and in the early Cold War. The McCarran-Walter Act moved away from excluding immigrants based simply upon country of origin. Instead it focused upon denying immigrants who were unlawful, immoral, diseased in any way, politically radical etc. and accepting those who were willing and able to assimilate into the US economic, social, and political structures, which restructured how immigration law was handled. Furthermore, the most notable exclusions were anyone even remotely associated with communism which in the early days of the Cold War was seen as a serious threat to US democracy. The main objective of this was to block any spread of communism from outside post WWII countries, as well as deny any enemies of the US during WWII such as Japan and favor “good Asian” countries such as China. The McCarran-Walter Act was a strong reinforcement in immigration selection, which was labeled the best way to preserve national security and national interests. President Truman originally vetoed the law, deeming it discriminatory; however there was enough support in Congress for the law to pass.

 

I never said anything about demands on coming here at all! Please kindly do not misquote me. This is what I said:

I would ask the same consideration of you. The demands are being made by those wanting to immigrate here. As far as I know you are a US Citizen 

 

 

No one was doing outrageous things until Trump said what he sad and yes it is as if he put that pig head out there himself. He is acting just like Hitler. He didn't do all the deeds but what he said before he was elected German's begin to attack Jewish German people! That is what people like Hitler do insight people. Trump is no different then ISIS he insight hate!

I have known families that lived under Hitler's rule. To compare the two you obviously have much research to do. They would find your comments laughable if not insulting.Would your claim also involve the calls for violence from many in the black community Some that are involved withBLM and others that call for the killing of whites and cops?

Racism is always cheaper when it come to White people because they don't want to deal with the issue. So they said they are color blind, so I guess they don't see the different colors of flower, the sky, the grass or any of the beautiful colors in the world! Black people should be just grateful for what they get. Even though they have to fight harder, be neglected, mistreated, killed by some of the color blind people or their hated relatives or neighbors!!!!!!

This is absurd. Do you honestly believe if someone makes the statement "color blind" he/she is unaware of the difference in skin color. Most rational people understand that to mean that skin color is irrelevant to them.

I had many black co-workers,some became friends outside of work. I obviously knew they were black and it didn't make any difference. Some I shied away from because of the constant cries of racism every time something wasn't to their liking.

Many white people are killed by "those people" of color or their hated relatives and neighbors as well. Doesn't make either right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bonnie]

 

Trump called Latino Immigrants "Criminals" And "Rapists.;" He, said Mexicans (And Other Hispanic Immigrants) Were "Killers" too.; He insisted the Mexican Government intentionally sends their criminals to the U.S.

He said to “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

 

Salon has a interesting article on this. Can't get much more liberal.You might want to do a bit of reading before venting your hatred

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/21/the_media_needs_to_stop_telling_this_lie_about_donald_trump_im_a_sanders_supporter_and_value_honesty/

 

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MONDAY, DEC 21, 2015 09:27 AM CST

The media needs to stop telling this lie about Donald Trump. I’m a Sanders supporter — and value honesty

Trump's words on Mexicans have been misconstrued by all sides. This liberal, Puerto Rican professor says enough

ALBERTO A. MARTINEZ

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TOPICS: DONALD TRUMP, MEXICO, IMMIGRATION, EDITOR'S PICKS, MEDIA CRITICISM, ELECTIONS 2016, BUSINESS NEWS, NEWS, POLITICS NEWS

Donald Trump(Credit: Reuters/David Becker)

It’s time to start cleaning up the mess of misinterpretations about Donald Trump.

 

 

Back in June, I first saw Mr. Trump announcing his candidacy for president. What he said about unauthorized immigrants seemed ridiculous so I laughed. I showed the video to friends, and I laughed again. His words were poorly chosen.

 

 

 

But something worse happened. People interpreted Trump’s words in the most awful and offensive ways.

In one of my courses, at the University of Texas at Austin, I asked my students: “What has Donald Trump said that you found most offensive?” One student raised her hand high: “He said that all Mexicans are rapists.” I asked a coworker the same question. He replied: “He said that all Mexican immigrants are rapists.”

I explained that Trump said no such thing. This is what Trump said:

“When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. […] When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you; they’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting.”

You might well dislike Trump’s words. I did. But let’s not make it worse. He did not say that all Mexicans are rapists. Yet that’s what many commentators did. For example, Politico misquoted Trump by omitting his phrase about “good people.” They said he was “demonizing Mexicans as rapists.” They argued that Mexicans do not really commit more rapes in the U.S. than whites. But that’s not what Trump claimed.

Similarly, other news sources misrepresented his words in offensive ways:

The New York Times: “Trump’s claim that illegal Mexican immigrants are ‘rapists.”

Time Magazine: “Trump’s comment that Mexican immigrants are ‘rapists.’”

Associated Press: “Trump called Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals”

CBS News: “Trump defends calling Mexican immigrants ‘rapists.’”

L.A. Times: “describing Mexican immigrants as ‘rapists.’”

Fortune: “in a speech branding Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists.”

Hollywood Reporter: “he referred to Mexican immigrants as ‘rapists.’”

Huffington Post: “He called Latino immigrants ‘criminals’ and ‘rapists.’”

The Washington Post: “He referred to Mexicans as “rapists.”

 

 

 

It is not unamerican or unreasonable to step back and come up with a little better game plan and figure out what is going on

[bonnie]

Trump said “I have a great relationship with the blacks. I’ve always had a great relationship with the blacks.;”  “‘Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that.;” “A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market.;” “If I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I believe they do have an actual advantage.”  He gave this CSB graphic which falsely shows that most whites are killed by blacks! do 

IIs this a quote by Trump or by a man going back severala years and saying he was quoting Trump?

I hate to defend Trump,I do not support him and hopefully I won't have to choose between Clinton the consumate liar and him. However we have several unofficial truth detectors present on the forum and they seem strangely quiet.

Later I will look up Ben Carsons actual words and see if the same carelessness is used in describing what a liar he is

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[doug yowell]

2 hours ago, bonnie said:

This is absurd

Exactly, so why continue the conversation unless you're a glutton for endless strife?

[lazarus]

17 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

 So they said they are color blind, so I guess they don't see the different colors of flower, the sky, the grass or any of the beautiful colors in the world! Black people should be just grateful for what they get.

I have sometimes found that the claim of "colorblindness" is often another way to avoiding dealing with the issue of racism. It's a pretense, especially in a country where race has been a key feature of how society is organized. Many well intentioned white  Christians make this claim but it's often viewed as dismissive by people of color.

[bonnie]

49 minutes ago, lazarus said:

I have sometimes found that the claim of "colorblindness" is often another way to avoiding dealing with the issue of racism. It's a pretense, especially in a country where race has been a key feature of how society is organized. Many well intentioned white  Christians make this claim but it's often viewed as dismissive by people of color.

A white christian making this statement is in no way responsible for people of color dismissing it. 

[Tom Wetmore]

WOW!  Missed that point by a country mile!!

[bonnie]

27 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

WOW!  Missed that point by a country mile!!

I have sometimes found that the claim of "colorblindness" is often another way to avoiding dealing with the issue of racism. It's a pretense, especially in a country where race has been a key feature of how society is organized. Many well intentioned white  Christians make this claim but it's often viewed as dismissive by people of color

The way people of color choose to see this statement is their business.There is no way to change the mind of someone that is convinced that it is used to avoid something racial

 Not everyone is obsessed with the color of someone's skin. It is not a phrase I ever recall using but if I did it would have nothing to do with avoiding the topic of race.

 

 

 

[Tom Wetmore]

You know, racism, bigotry, classism, and all such things is not simply about the color of someone's skin, although that is obviously one of the more prominent manifestations.  At its heart it is more about differences and diversity and ones attitude toward such.  Your comments suggest to me a possible profound level of ignorance about e whole topic.  Some folk are ignorant for lack of opportunity or experience from which to gain insight and knowledge.  Some folk just bypass such opportunities to enrich their understanding of  others not like themselves.  The reasons behind their avoidant ignorance gets to the heart of the attitude that motivates it.  The question we should search our souls with on this is to simply as ourselves, "Why?"  "Why do I prefer not to think about or be confronted in any way with that which makes others different from me?"  "What happens inside me when I am confronted by such realities?"  "What feelings does it raise within me?"

If one hears comments about needing to be "colorblind", sometimes those deep seated attitudes reveal themselves in actions and other words surrounding that declaration.  The supposed fair mindedness is too often revealed to be a means of perpetuating the status quo of discrimination. It really is an out of sight, out of mind mentality that has motivated ghettos, separate but equal nonsense and similar practices that do nothing to bring people together in mutual understanding that enriches us all.  

[bonnie]

4 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

You know, racism, bigotry, classism, and all such things is not simply about the color of someone's skin, although that is obviously one of the more prominent manifestations.  At its heart it is more about differences and diversity and ones attitude toward such.  Your comments suggest to me a possible profound level of ignorance about e whole topic.  Some folk are ignorant for lack of opportunity or experience from which to gain insight and knowledge.  Some folk just bypass such opportunities to enrich their understanding of  others not like themselves.  The reasons behind their avoidant ignorance gets to the heart of the attitude that motivates it.  The question we should search our souls with on this is to simply as ourselves, "Why?"  "Why do I prefer not to think about or be confronted in any way with that which makes others different from me?"  "What happens inside me when I am confronted by such realities?"  "What feelings does it raise within me?"

Great post,however you have gone way off from what was said.

Contrary to your implications talking about the above mentioned isn't a problem. We have several minorities as part of our immediate and extended family.My granddaughters dated young black men,no one fainted or wished they would go away. A family member is married to a wonderful black man. Big whoop. They do not feel the need to constantly confront the nasty whites" in the family.

Colorblind to me is there isn't the slightest distinction between those that are "minority" and the white members of my family. That could change if it was a constant topic and I felt as if I had to guard every word,trying to anticipate what might offend them. I would not be very comfortable with them

I didn't say ..Why do I prefer not to think about or be confronted in any way with that which makes others different from me. You did. What is tiresome is always having someone second guess motives of others  as you have done. Or being told  how privileged I have been thru my life because I am white. If my brothers and I had to much more privilege I hate to think of what would have happened to us. So what.? 

Any family black or white that is on welfare is leading a privileged life by comparison to what we had

4 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

If one hears comments about needing to be "colorblind", sometimes those deep seated attitudes reveal themselves in actions and other words surrounding that declaration.  The supposed fair mindedness is too often revealed to be a means of perpetuating the status quo of discrimination. It really is an out of sight, out of mind mentality that has motivated ghettos, separate but equal nonsense and similar practices that do nothing to bring people together in mutual understanding that enriches us all.  

And sometimes those making that statement are uncomfortable because they are being accused of racism or bigotry and try to explain. Nor do I believe you are in that elevated position to be able to always tell who is who.

. It really is an out of sight, out of mind mentality 

 

Nor is a in sight and always front and center mentality helpful.  It may be those leveling the accusations and telling others what they really mean non stop are dealing with more than a little of what they place on others

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom Wetmore]

Part of the problem with any discussion about racism is what seems to be a knee-jerk defensiveness and what seems to be a myopic view of the issue as if it is always and only personal.  Why this may sound contradictory to what I previously said, there is also a tendency to take ones own close personal experience as definitive to the issue under discussion, as if ones own experience is truly representative of the issue. It's not, really.  Just because one has peaceful stasis in their own small world that may intersect or include members of different races, color, or background by no means it is representative or even the point under discussion.  

[bonnie]

11 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Part of the problem with any discussion about racism is what seems to be a knee-jerk defensiveness and what seems to be a myopic view of the issue as if it is always and only personal.  Why this may sound contradictory to what I previously said, there is also a tendency to take ones own close personal experience as definitive to the issue under discussion, as if ones own experience is truly representative of the issue. It's not, really.  Just because one has peaceful stasis in their own small world that may intersect or include members of different races, color, or background by no means it is representative or even the point under discussion.  

 

 Just because one has peaceful stasis in their own small world that may intersect or include members of different races, color, or background by no means it is representative or even the point under discussion.  

 

That isn't exactly what I said tho. If in my "own small world" I was confronted constantly by the topic of race and racism by the white race,my own small world wouldn't have such a peaceful status.

Colorblind to me is there isn't the slightest distinction between those that are "minority" and the white members of my family. That could change if it was a constant topic and I felt as if I had to guard every word,trying to anticipate what might offend them. I would not be very comfortable with them

Same when I was working.  I had co-workers that represented many "different" race or skin color. Most were great to work with. There were those few,white,black,gay,fat that wanted to make their particular circumstance the most important issue and anyone that disagreed with them was either a racist or bigot or as some like to point out "ignorant" It was almost impossible to carry on a conversation that did not end up on their favorite hobby horse. What was interesting was most of the black and gay employees were their harshest critic.

I do shy away from close contact with those that do that. Regardless of what is said or how understanding someone tries to be you will not change those that make this an important part of their life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[doug yowell]

23 hours ago, bonnie said:

Part of the problem with any discussion about racism is what seems to be a knee-jerk defensiveness and what seems to be a myopic view of the issue as if it is always and only personal.

Yes, that's a part of the problem but it is no more a part of the problem than the  knee jerk, myopic offense that seems to permeate the instigation of every discussion of the issue. Nor is the charge of racism always and only impersonal particularly when it is 99% attributed to white, conservative, religious Republicans. That is why discussions like these, which are generally based on the assumption that those being charged are guilty and if they deny it they are even more guilty, are 99.9% fruitless, and probably even more likely to create more of the very thing they are trying to eliminate. So as you say, Bonnie, it's a no win situation for anyone no matter what the evidence. So a blessed and Merry Christmas to all races or Peace, goodwill towards all men ( and women too).