Dr. Shane Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Quote: in the potlucks, Yea, some races use too much fat and fry too much food. and some food just smells so bad that one would have to change churches. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Not races, Shane, cultures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 One of the aspects I like about being sda and the 3 angels msgs is that the idea or truth concept that Jesus' return is so very imminent that it makes all the other worldly social issues secondary. I mean, how much does it really matter being "white in america" if the world as we know it, and all who cling to it are about to be burned up? We should be about telling everyone about the truth that we hold, no matter what their color, and leave all the whiny issues outside on the street corner, as best we can anyway. Besides, I thank MLK and all the civil rights leaders for what they did for me, but right about now I am trying to learn as much espanol as I can so I can do my job, if you catch my drift. Darryl B Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 A dedicated Adventist will find him or herself at odds with their culture - regardless which culture that is. Adventists form a subculture. However, even that Adventist culture varies from culture to culture. That said, I suspect my wife and I wouldn't be celebrating nine years of marriage this week if we were not both Adventists. Our cultures are just too different, but our Adventist subcultures bind us. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I get what you're saying Shane, but I think this whole sda deal is a lot more deeper than just culture. That said, let me come at this from another angle, then I will leave it alone. IMO racism is a sub set of sin, and evil, along with cancer, other diseases, like avian flu, nuclear proliferation in N Korea, now Iran, Pakistan, street gangs, the KKK, etc., etc. Only Jesus can fix this stuff. Still, to the subject at hand. I grew up in SE TX in a small town, that I've mentioned before. There was elements of racism, but I was young and naive and didn't notice it. The good Lord, my parents etc., did a good job of shielding me from it. That, plus racism was more benign in my hometown than in other nearby areas. There was this one incident that stick out in my memory. I know of others, but I won't belabor the issue. There was this guy name Jimmy, an african american kid like myself. He was in the class ahead of me. Jimmy was a good athlete. He had been clocked as running 9.9, or 9.8 in the 100 yd dash in the 9th grade. They have switched to the metric system since then, but still, that was pretty fast, especially for the 9th grade. He may have gotten a scholarship, made it to the pros, who knows? Anyway, being as how Jimmy was a star athlete and all, he had caught the attention of the girls at school. There was a track meet one saturday, where Jimmy had done very well. He and his girlfriend, who happened to be white, were walking home from the meet, when some white guys in the back of a pick up, who obviously didn't like the idea of Jimmy being with that girl, stalked them down, drove by and hit Jimmy in the head with a concrete block. It messed his brain up. He has been basically unable to take care of himself since then. His mom, who was struggling at below the poverty level then, has had to take care of him since then. The guys in the truck were caught. All they got was probation and a slap on the wrist. Now tell me, if the roles had been reversed, and it had been some black kids that had done such a thing to a white kid, what do you think would of happened to them? In SE Texas? Or in any other part of this country? They would still be in prison - or dead. DB Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I don't know what year that happened but if it were to happen today I suspect they would have gotten life in prison or the death penalty in Texas. If you recall the dragging death of James Byrd Jr in Jasper, Texas, they all got life in prison or the death penalty. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 22, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: However, people may perceive a difference in the welcoming greeting, in the conversation in Sabbath schools, in the potlucks, and in the types of social gatherings. The differences in culture are the things that might make a person look for another church. sorry to labour the point but I would love to hear more about this....examples please....cultural differences in the welcoming greeting?????!!!!! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 22, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: D_Bishop said: I mean, how much does it really matter being "white in america" if the world as we know it, and all who cling to it are about to be burned up? We should be about telling everyone about the truth that we hold, no matter what their color, and leave all the whiny issues outside on the street corner, How we treat people, and how we see people is a core issue to Christainity. Jesus challeneged the racism of the Jews. Their racism prevented them from being God's witnesses. Why do some of churches NOT witness? Because they fear they will be swampted by all this difference........all these people who are not like us......eeeewwww......let me go soemwhere else. What on earth happened to teaching ALL nations...... Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 One culture might greet members with a hug and other close physical gestures; while another culture might simply prefer a handshake. Some cultures have choirs that swing their bodies and clap their hands. Other cultures have choirs that are staid in their mannerisms. Some cultures will applause when a church performer gives a moving presentation. Some cultures will, instead, give a hearty "Amen." Other cultures will simply nod their heads in appreciation. Some cultures will hold their hands high in the air while praying--often shouting, "Praise be to God", "Amen!" or simply a "Yes, Brother!". Others will kneel quietly. Some cultures will encourage a minister during the sermon by shouting "Preach it!", "Go on!", and "Amen, Pastor!" Other cultures prefer to listen in quiet reverence. Some cultures believe that the term "white" is acceptable, but "black" and "red" are not. Some cultures believe that the only accpetable terms are "Caucasian", "African-American" and "Native American". (Some cultures insist that even more derogatory terms are acceptable--notably, only by those members of that particular culture: anyone of another culture who uses these terms is labeled as being disrespectful.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: Shane said: I don't know what year that happened but if it were to happen today I suspect they would have gotten life in prison or the death penalty in Texas. If you recall the dragging death of James Byrd Jr in Jasper, Texas, they all got life in prison or the death penalty. As I've mentioned in posts before, this was in the same area of Jasper, Texas. I've been to Jasper many times. I never met him, but I knew of James Byrd long before the tragedy occurred. Jasper and Silsbee are long time football rivals, going back 60 years or so, and James Byrd played football for Jasper. Like it or not, politics is an integral component of justice, and more often than otherwise, that component is racial politics. Sometimes it is the politics of class. That whole Jasper ordeal wasn't the first time that has happened. I've heard stories of people being dragged before. It just so happens that in this information age, with the internet and satellite television and so forth, the Byrd tragedy caught on as a news item. If the press in SE TX had been able to keep that story local, those guys would of gotten much less severe sentences, if they had gotten sentenced at all. DB Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: It just so happens that in this information age, with the internet and satellite television and so forth, the Byrd tragedy caught on as a news item. One of the big jobs of groups like Rainbow/Push and NAACP is to make sure these stories become new items. So one wonders where they were when your high school friend got a block to his head. I think they are clearly off track when they are trying to get convicted gang leaders off from death roe. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: Shane said: Quote: It just so happens that in this information age, with the internet and satellite television and so forth, the Byrd tragedy caught on as a news item. One of the big jobs of groups like Rainbow/Push and NAACP is to make sure these stories become new items. So one wonders where they were when your high school friend got a block to his head. I think they are clearly off track when they are trying to get convicted gang leaders off from death roe. People get the misconceived idea that african americans are monolithic, we all think alike. Not so. I don't have much interest in the NAACP, or Push, or in Jesse Jackson, for that matter. If I am channel surfing and have the time, I may listen, but other than that I don't really care. I wasn't on the Tookie Williams bandwagon. I think justice was served in that case. As for my friend, well, not every incident of violence is addressed by the media and special interest groups. I doubt if they have the money or the manpower to address everything. Also, every protest by Push or the NAAcp does not capture the attention of the media. There is so much stuff going on, people have a short attention span. He should of been more careful. We all make mistakes though. People in India live with cobras, and they have learned how to charm them. If you or I went over there the snake would probably kill us. People in the South, learn to live with racial hatred. Emmitt Till comes down to Mississippi from Chicago, whistles at a woman, allegedly, and ends up mutilated. His miss. cousins knew better. Dude shouldn't of been walking with his g/f through a white neighborhood in mid 1970s rural Texas. It probably wouldn't be wise to do it now. Stuff happens. DB Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_McQueen Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 It looks like an interesting film and would love to see it. In my travels there seems to be a different dynamic on the race issue between blacks and whites in the UK as compared to the UK, but to be honest I think that people tend to have more in common based on social strata than colour or racial constructs. Quote Firstborn Ministries: Spoken and written word, without apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Quote: lazarus said: What u said is interesting. Do you think that white people actually do treat people of a different color better? If yes, please give some examples Some do. I try to treat everyone the same though. It doesn't matter what their color is, they are still children of Abba whether they know it or not. My husband says I'm way to trusting. I just tell him that may be true. But my trust is in Abba, and if I'm put in danger by treating them as Jesus would have, then so be it. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I saw some expose on HBO about soccer in europe, including the UK, where black soccer players are harassed. Every time the ball is kicked their way the whole stadium almosts join together in some sort of monkey call. They even throw bananas on the field, they hang effigies of blacks along the side of the stadium. . It even showed whole sections of the stadium filled with skin heads, doing some sort of nazi salute. That's much worse than here in the USA. DB Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 That is very frightening and incomprehensible to me. I just dont understand actions and thoughts such as those. But we should expect more and more of this type of hate as we move forward into the time of trouble. Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Word. That sums it up. We can close this thread now. DB Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 So, by closing the thread, I guess you are saying that everything is solved. No more problems, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 23, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted January 23, 2006 Cricket here's a response to an earlier post you made. Once upon a time..... Anywhere Valley SDA church decided to hold an evangelistic program. They hadn't had one for years since Pastor Anybody who was a dynamic speaker and keen soul-winner. They invite a speaker who would appeal to many of the people in their local area who are a white and middle class. The series of meetings are going well. Attendance is the best they have ever seen for a program for their church. On the 4th night a group of 12 Spanish people turn up in a van they had heard about the meetings. A number of them live about 5 miles from the church. They seem very enthusiatic about about the mettings. They were invited by a Spanish member of the church and word spread because of the power of the speaker and his intriguing sermon titles. Eight of the group decide to get baptised. Some months later 11 are baptised and about 18 new Spanish people are attending. The church membership is about 70. As the months roll by more Spanish people begin to attend. Many are migrant workers. They are very enthusiatic and want to get involved. The like to contribute to put-luck lunches. Of course they bring traditional dishes from their various countries. They ask for a Spanish speaking class but the majority of the new Spanish members are members of the regular English classes. They are often warm and tactile in their approach. They like to say amen in Church. A number of the white members have become uncomfortable and talk about how things have changed. They don't like some of the food (which is all vegetarian) that is sometimes bought to potluck. They say that the Spanish always want to have evangelistic meetings. They are always so loud with their greeting in church. A number of the White members talk about forming another church down the road. "Things have changed so much that we feel that its not our church anymore said the 1st elder at a private meeting one Sabbath afternoon." A number of the Spanish group hear of what has been said and confront some of the white members. The Pastor, who is white, knows how the whites feel but he's not sure what the right thing is to do ...what should he do? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I have seen this scene play out before but I have never seen the whites leave and form their own church. They normally tell the spanish they need to leave and start their own church. There is a solution. It is called a multi-nation or multi-culture church. There are various Sabbath schools and the divine service is geared toward different cultures on different Sabbaths. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I know of at least 2 predominantly black churches that shared their churches with hispanics. Eventually the hispanics left and got their own churches. The hispanic churches are doing great here in Houston. Within a 7 to 10 mile radius of where we live there are about 6 or 7 spanish speaking churches, most of them recently formed. There is one right down the street. They bought a church from this small apostolic congregation that didn't appear to be growing. I would visit the new church there, but my spanish is not that good. I live and work on the same side of town. If there are 6 or so new hispanic churches just on this side of town, who knows how many there are in the other parts of town. I estimate there are about 50 hispanic congregations in the Houston area. Some own church bldgs that are as nice as any other sda church. Some of those congregations rent space in shopping strips. The growth of sda among hispanics in this area is exponential. They are doing so well, that it probably won't be very long until they will have to assist the english speaking churches. More power to them. DB Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Hispanics share their faith. It is part of their culture. In my office, two of the others that work there have Christian radio playing in their offices all day. They don't think twice about inviting someone to a Bible study, concert or worship service. Ango-Americans a quite timid and afraid of offending others with their faith. Anglos are afraid of being seen as pushy. The Spanish church actually disfellowship members as a means of discipline and they still grow. Many that are disfellowshipped later return for rebaptism. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 The pastor should continue preaching just as he always has been. The church belongs to God, not the people. Provided that each culture carefully hear the concerns of the other; provided that each culture respect the opposing culture; provided that each culture recognize the value of the other culture; and provided that each culture behave in a non-judgmental manner, the situation can be handled in a non-conflicting, cooperative way. The people have a right to stay or leave the church. They have a right to do so without being criticized and labeled as racist. These same people also have a right to not participate in things (like clapping in church/staying silent in church, shouting during the sermon/praying while kneeling, eating unfamiliar foods/eating non-vegetarian foods, or greeting others in an unfamiliar way...the list is as endless as there are cultures) that go against their own culture without being labeled as racist. Somewhere previously in this thread, you mentioned that people who left the church because of these differences were leaving because they are racist. I say that these reasons are not racist, but cultural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Quote: I say that these reasons are not racist, but cultural. I would believe that this is just semantics. Perhaps the people involved rationalise their behaviour in this way (and some may even believe it - the human mind's power for self-decption is immense) but when you boil it down racism by any other name smells as foetid. No problem though - in heaven these people can build an enclave with a very high fence and pretend to themselves that they're the only ones there. Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Quote: Quote: I say that these reasons are not racist, but cultural. I would believe that this is just semantics. Perhaps the people involved rationalise their behaviour in this way ... but when you boil it down racism by any other name smells as foetid. I don't care what color your skin is. If you are going to stand in the pulpit and yell out "God created the Earth in 7 days, in 1844 Jesus went into the Heavenly Holy of Holies, homosexual marriage should be banned, and people who don't believe these things are on the side of the Devil", don't expect me to waste my time sitting in the pews. And that does not make me a racist - it just means that our value-systems are so different that we will annoy each other sufficiently to not make for a comfortable worship service. /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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