Stan Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The problem that will becoming is not about people being forced to worship on Sunday, We should all worship on Sunday and every other single day of the week. The 4th commandment is about which day you rest upon and which 6 days you work on. Let's not forget to read the 4th commandment when we talk about Sunday Laws. Bravus, Tom Wetmore, JoeMo and 1 other 4 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 10, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2016 *cough*martial*cough* JoeMo 1 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 22 minutes ago, Stan said: The problem that will becoming is not about people being forced to worship on Sunday, We should all worship on Sunday and every other single day of the week. The 4th commandment is about which day you rest upon and which 6 days you work on. Let's not forget to read the 4th commandment when we talk about Sunday Laws. Although it is enforcement of worship that would seem to me to be where the rub comes in. That is where it becomes a mark of authority to replace the seal of God, directly leading back to the archenemy of the Creator. God is Love!~Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 hours ago, David Geelan said: Do people really think that ghosts (or demons impersonating ghosts) would convince enough Americans that Sunday is the true Sabbath and must be kept to change the law? I would asked the question differently: Do you think people could be deceived by fallen angels appearing as a deceased friend, relative, or family member, etc? Absolutely! I mean let's look at King Saul's deception: 1 Samuel 28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.... Verse 11 Then the woman (the medium of Endor) asked (King Saul), “Whom shall I bring up for you?” “Bring up Samuel,” he said. 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” 13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?” The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure a coming up out of the earth.” 14 “What does he look like?” he asked. “An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.” 16 Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18 Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19 The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.” Note that this deception was so calculated and deceiving that "Saul knew it was Samuel" when the prophet was clearly dead (see verse 3). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 10, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2016 My point, though, was about whether such deceptions would be effective today. Saul was in the 11th century BC, about 3000 years ago. CoAspen 1 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 hours ago, David Geelan said: My point, though, was about whether such deceptions would be effective today. Saul was in the 11th century BC, about 3000 years ago. It is not difficult to imagine that a person could be deceived easily if they were convinced that the dead aren't actually dead, but instead take some other form upon their death. The best reason to believe what God told man originally. 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die....Genesis 2 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:...Genesis 3 God is Love!~Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 7 hours ago, David Geelan said: *cough*martial*cough* A word in time saves nine Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I remember as a new adventist, being told that going to Church on Sunday was the mark of the beast.. going to Church is not keeping the Sabbath, Those folks eventually left the Church, foundation can not be based upon stupidity and have long term substance. JoeMo, GayatfootofCross and Tom Wetmore 3 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 10 hours ago, David Geelan said: My point, though, was about whether such deceptions would be effective today. Saul was in the 11th century BC, about 3000 years ago. Why is deception a matter of time? People are easily deceived. Lies are easily believed. Even more so with a deceased friend or relative who appears as a messenger from heaven. Image the potential for absolute deception! Keep in mind that fallen Lucifer ("the Father of lies") knows everything about everyone - their personalities, personal information, etc. The Bible states that Saul "knew" it was Samuel. There was no question in his mind because he was overwhelming deceived. Our only safeguard is the Bible and a firm faith in Christ Jesus. "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Ecc 9:5 "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Ps 115:17 Again, this idea that men and women go to paradise at death is based on the idea that something good exist in our humanity that transcends death. This idea is based in self-righteousness and pride. Hence this doctrine is anti-gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 11 hours ago, Stan said: I remember as a new adventist, being told that going to Church on Sunday was the mark of the beast.... "Sunday keeping is not yet the mark of the beast" [Maranatha - Page 212] The mark of the beast will be in complete opposition to Christ's finished work (the gospel) and its sign, the Sabbath as linked to redemption. Ron Lambert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 On 3/6/2016 at 6:56 PM, David Geelan said: Candidate most likely to instigate a National Sunday Law? "Political corruption is destroying love of justice and regard for truth, and even in free America rulers and legislators, in order to secure public favour, will yield to the popular demand for a law enforcing Sunday observance."--GC 578, 579, 592 (1911). Politicians will do anything to stay in office, especially when it come to using the religion card. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 On 3/7/2016 at 10:47 AM, JoeMo said: Quote I don't think there will ever be a National Sunday Law in the U.S. - maybe there will be in Australia. Even if there is a law mandating worship on Sunday, I'm OK with it. What I won't be OK with is if they ever pass a law prohibiting Saturday worship. The narrative portions of Daniel are as instructive as are the prophetic portions. First the faithful were commanded to worship an image. They were commanded to participate in false worship. For disobeying, the faithful were thrown into a fiery furnace. Later, when Medo-Persia had taken over, the faithful were commanded not to engage in true worship--not to pray to any god other than King Darius. For this, Daniel was cast into a den of lions. This shows that there were two phases in Satan's methodology for attacking the faithful in the time of ancient Babylon. So in the time of the end, we should expect Satan to employ the same methodology through spiritual Babylon. First he will require Sunday worship (false worship), then will come the command forbidding true worship--observance of the Sabbath. Make no mistake, anyone who submits to the first command, will also submit to the second. hch and phkrause 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 While it is hard to predict what someone will do if elected to the highest office in the land, we can note that Ted Cruz has shown a stronger, unequivocal commitment to religious liberty than any other GOP candidate. And also, his wife, Heidi, is a Seventh-day Adventist--who like Esther would certainly be in a position to apprise her husband of the concerns of Adventists. Cruz is a Baptist. Marco Rubio is a Roman Catholic. Donald Trump is not noticeably religious in any sense, except maybe to be his own god. John Kasich did not clearly answer the question about the bakers who were sued for not baking a cake for a same-sex wedding--he said that instead of suing, the plaintiffs should have just sought out a different baker. Thus Kasich essentially avoided declaring himself on religious liberty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted March 11, 2016 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2016 7 hours ago, Ron Lambert said: Ted Cruz has shown a stronger, unequivocal commitment to religious liberty than any other GOP candidate. And also, his wife, Heidi, is a Seventh-day Adventist--who like Esther would certainly be in a position to apprise her husband of the concerns of Adventists. I don't believe he is committed to religious liberty. He's committed to the the cultural preeminence of Christianity in the United States. I've never heard him speak up for the religious liberties of Muslims, Sikhs or others. To suggest that the religious liberty of evangelical Christians in the US is under threat is ridiculous. phkrause 1 Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Carson will endorse TRUMP Not surprised! So much for fruit inspection! On 3/8/2016 at 11:47 PM, GayatfootofCross said: yes lest I forget the Trumpet! I was just talking last week to one of my fave SDA Sainted older Ladies. She expressed with me the cray cray of his followers seeming to be OK with everything he does and says. She is a republican. A mob like atmosphere when Donald points out someone in the crowd he don't like. Imagine that mob like atmosphere toward our own? Sanctioned by a POTUS! Jesus is very near! #embarrassed I have to apologize to my non SDA friends yet again Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 And in turn Trump will become SDA! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Which of the candidates would be most likely to institute a Sunday law? The one who has the least interest in following the Consititution. Many of our Consitutional rights have already been destroyed, or are currently being destroyed, and we already have governmental institutions that are outside of Constititutional bounds. For SDAs it ought to be very obvious that any political actions taken that move us away from our Constitution are a great danger to our foundational liberties. Ellen White tells us specifically that the Sunday law will come when the US finally abandons all pretense of following the Constitution, and we are already at the point of pretense in following the Constitution. So, any politition who gives only lip service to the Constitution but is willing to pass laws that not based on our Constitution is very likely to be the one who will pass laws restricting religious liberty. This makes it clear that almost all of the current presidential candidates would pass a Sunday law, and the more progressive/Socialist they are the more likely they are to do so for that side of the political spectrum does not like the Constitution. bonnie 1 Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 When that time comes democrats and republicans alike are going to be searching for a solution to the mess the world has become God will no longer be a word only allowed in your home and churches.Nor will it be only republicans demanding a return to God with democrats standing firmly on the constitution. Of course we should know how that will turn out. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoarrge Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 It strikes me as incredibly perverse that fear of the Sunday Law has driven people to be more afraid of electing openly Christian officials than godless secularists. Rather, it could be the moral relativists who throw the gates open to the barbarians, which drive a mass panic to re-establish some form of morality and cultural cohesion. You can already see this beginning in Europe. bonnie 1 Quote To be an agent of creation is to serve the Creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Quote "Political corruption is destroying love of justice and regard for truth, and even in free America rulers and legislators, in order to secure public favour, will yield to the popular demand for a law enforcing Sunday observance."--GC 578, 579, 592 (1911). It's rather simple: Our Country is becoming more and more corrupt daily. After all, corporations are people and money is free-speech. This is what our Supreme Court tells us. The reality, however, is that power and money are used bribe politicians. "We the people" has been replaced with "we the powerful, wealthy elites"! That's what controls Washington. Therefore we have a plutocracy, not a true republic. John Locke said, "Where-ever law ends, tyranny begins". As Ellen White stated, "Political corruption is destroying love of justice". The USA is ripe for tyranny and according to the Bible that tyranny will come in the form of the Papacy. Thus the religious dogmas imposed, through a union of church & state, will be nothing short of a self-righteous attempt to make our politician leaders appear as "angels of light". phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 The following my shed some light on the coming issue concerning Sunday enforcement? The Sabbath-Sunday Controversy The real issue is not the one we usually think of — Sabbath keeping versus Sunday keeping. Many sincere Sunday-keeping Christians today are fully resting in Christ for salvation. They are keeping the wrong day but for the right reason. Likewise, many sincere Sabbath-keeping Christians do so because they think their Sabbath keeping will save them. They are keeping the right day for the wrong reason. Both need to be corrected and, if we let Him, the Holy Spirit will do this as He guides us into all truth [see John 16:13]. When the gospel of the kingdom is preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations [see Matthew 24:14], it will polarize the human race into only two camps — believers and unbelievers [see 1 John 5:19]. There will be only those who are fully resting in Christ and those who have ultimately rejected Him. In the end time, all who come under the banner of Christ will worship the Lord of the Sabbath; their Sabbath keeping will be the outward sign or seal of the righteousness they have already received by faith, just as Abraham’s circumcision was “a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised” [Romans 4:11]. In the end time, those who have deliberately turned their backs on God’s free gift of salvation in Christ will worship the dragon that gives power to the beast [see Revelation 13:3-4]. They will exalt Sunday as man’s day of rest in defiance of God’s rest day. The issue, then, in the final conflict will not be between two groups of Christians, or even between two rest days, but between two opposing methods of salvation. The conflict will be between the seventh-day Sabbath, signifying salvation by faith alone, and Sunday, signifying salvation by human effort. The fundamental issue throughout Scripture is salvation by faith versus salvation by works. At the heart of the Bible message is salvation by grace made effective through faith alone [see Habakkuk 2:4; Romans 3:28; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Hebrews 10:38-39; Hebrews 11:1-40]. At the heart of every false religion is salvation by works. In ancient times, Sunday became not only man’s day of physical and mental rest, but above all it symbolized his day of spiritual rest and worship based on the pagan belief that the sun was the chief of gods. This became prominent in the Roman Empire of Christ’s day. Hence, at its very foundation, Sunday rest is a pagan institution representing self-righteousness in contradiction to God’s Sabbath, the sign of righteousness by faith. These two opposing concepts of salvation have been in conflict since the Fall and can never be reconciled. When the true gospel of righteousness by faith will be fully recovered and preached in all the world for a witness, every person will have to make a choice — either for or against Christ [see Deuteronomy 30:19-20; Joshua 24:13-15; Romans 9:30-33; Philippians 3:3-9]. At that time, the Sabbath will become God’s seal, representing righteousness by faith. Sunday keeping, in contrast, will represent the mark of the beast, signifying mankind’s rejection of God’s saving grace in Christ [see Revelation 14:10-11]. When laws legally establishing Sunday worship are enacted, it will indicate the world’s deliberate and ultimate rejection of God’s loving offer to salvation through His Son. This is the “the abomination that causes desolation” of which Christ spoke [Matthew 24:15]. Those who will then insist on Sunday rest in willful opposition to God’s Sabbath will receive the plagues, God’s wrath poured out without mixture [see Revelation 14:9-11]. In contrast, those who will stubbornly cling to the seventh-day Sabbath will manifest a faith in God that is unshakable. They will go through the great time of trouble and wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb [see Revelation 7:14]. Because even so many Christians still have confused ideas about salvation, the true nature of the controversy between God’s Sabbath and man’s Sunday is also not clearly understood. But when the two opposing methods of salvation come clearly into focus, then the true importance of the Sabbath will also be clearly seen. At that time Sabbath keeping will become a test of faith. At that time, may God give each of us the grace and courage to stand for truth. “He who testifies to these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming soon.’ Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people” [Revelation 22:20-21]. [JS] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 23 hours ago, Geoarrge said: It strikes me as incredibly perverse that fear of the Sunday Law has driven people to be more afraid of electing openly Christian officials than godless secularists. Rather, it could be the moral relativists who throw the gates open to the barbarians, which drive a mass panic to re-establish some form of morality and cultural cohesion. You can already see this beginning in Europe. I agree. I've thought this way for years now. Liberty isn't lost in one fell swoop. It trickles away slowly under increasing governmental regulation and power. And the left is the great proponent of governmental power. The Republicans aren't that far behind anymore, but it's the left that has consistently led in this direction for the last 100+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 13, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2016 Fascinating to me in this thread that everyone manages to decide it will be the 'other' side of politics from the one they favour that institutes a National Sunday Law. And yes, I'm self-aware enough to realise that this applies to me as well. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, David Geelan said: Fascinating to me in this thread that everyone manages to decide it will be the 'other' side of politics from the one they favour that institutes a National Sunday Law. And yes, I'm self-aware enough to realise that this applies to me as well. Everyone is too broad a brush. When I identified GW in Bible prophecy, some folks assumed wrongly that I was a D. When I identified BO in Bible prophecy, some folks assumed wrongly that I was a R or prejudice or worse. The fact of the matter is that I have voted for Presidents from both the D and the R parties and that when some people stand for what they read God's word to be saying; it is a frivolous argument that seeks to explain away conviction by assuming that everyone is merely exercising political gamesmanship. To explain that you study the Bible from your political prospective is a confession that you are free to make if you so choose. But to assume that everyone has fallen into the same mindset, only belittles relevant Bible study. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 13, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2016 It's a fair point. My 'everyone' was indeed too broad. I think you're wrong about Obama instituting it, but happy to accept that that is not because you are specifically anti-Obama but because that is what you believe the Bible says. I suspect most others are not coming up with their predictions or views based on Bible study, but I could be wrong. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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