what in Daniel connects to Obama's term as America's final president?

[hch]

20 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Henry, at this pace, you will run out of time within Obama's term as president.  Just get to the point of explaining how you see how anything in Daniel the connects to Obama's term as president.  You have boldly predicted that Christ will return while Obama is president.  What makes you believe that?  If Daniel give a clue that leads to that specific of a prediction, it should be more than a hunch or rank speculation.  

Thanks for this feedback Tom. I had wondered if more than one or 2 people were even interested.

Daniel 7 states that 4 beasts came from the SEA.

Heaven states that the interpretation is about the 4 kings from the EARTH.

Traditionally we have believed that the symbolic sea-kingdoms ruled the literal earth.

BUT the symbolic SEA is not the symbolic EARTH.

Sea = old world. Earth = new world.

Daniel 7:17  "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

Revelation 13 explains that America is the power that arises from the prophetic earth

Meaning of Daniel 7:17 that was sealed until knowledge increased after 1844:  These great beasts, which are four, are four Presidents, which shall arise out of America.

But the kingdoms that sealed the authenticity of Daniel's prophecy and closed up and shut up the endtime meaning until knowledge was increased has become a stumbling block to most folks like the serpent on the pole that Moses made became an idol over time.

If a Laodicean cannot see that Daniel was for his time and sealed until the time of the end when knowledge was to be increased, they will not allow God's word to say what it says.

Knowledge was not intended to make smarter sinners or give ammo to scoffers.

[hch]

Daniel 7:17 is interpreting the vision to mean that: "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

Meaning These great beasts, which are four, are four Presidents, which shall arise out of America.

Plug the meaning into the prophecy

A lion = American President

Bear = American President

Leopard = American President

Indescribable beast = American President (2 as though they were one like pagan and papal Rome)

[hch]

Dan 7:11  "I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame."
Dan 7:12  "As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

• The speaking horn is an endtime pope
• The beast that is slain is the final American President (the indescribable beast)
• The burning flame is the glory of Christ's Advent (as a consuming fire)
• The rest of the beasts (lion, bear, & leopard) are US Presidents that ruled before the 4th
• Dominion taken away = these 3 were out of office
• Lives prolonged = these three were alive
• Season and time  = specific length of time allotted to the 3 US Presidents (91-years)

4 seasons to a year. 360-days to a prophetic year. 1/4 of 360=90-days. A day is a year in some Bible prophecy=90-years. And a time is already a year =91-years. 

Meaning: I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the pope spoke: I beheld even till the last American President was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame at Christ's Coming. As concerning the other three American Presidents, they were out of office: yet their lives were prolonged for 91-years.

This prophetic meaning could not be understood before knowledge increased any more than the folks in Babylon could have understood Medo-Persia, Greece or Rome before they came on the scene. The prophecy was sealed until God opened it. After history caught up to prophecy folks could look back and see "AH that's what that was about." But if we assume that a partial fulfillment is the full fulfillment, then we will never be able to go beyond the limits that we set upon our understanding.

[Jeannieb43]

It's dangerous to try to fit Bible prophecy into earthly events.   "For at such a time as YE KNOW NOT, the Son of Man comes."

 

[LifeHiscost]

5 hours ago, Jeannieb43 said:

It's dangerous to try to fit Bible prophecy into earthly events.   "For at such a time as YE KNOW NOT, the Son of Man comes."

 

However I would like to suggest while not knowing the day nor the hour of Jesus' return, we are told that the body of Christ will not be taken unaware. The Word clearly identifies the four beasts as from the far past and I can see no evidence giving reason to give the scripture  double application..

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

[hch]

11 hours ago, Kevin(wrx) said:

Still no correlation to Obama even in your interpretation.

The correlation is there, but perhaps you are waiting for me to nail it down

[hch]

9 hours ago, Jeannieb43 said:

It's dangerous to try to fit Bible prophecy into earthly events.   "For at such a time as YE KNOW NOT, the Son of Man comes."

 

By saying "It's dangerous to try to fit Bible prophecy into earthly events" are you suggesting that Bible prophecy will be fulfilled apart from earthly events?

"Daniel is standing in his lot and in his place. The prophecies of Daniel and of John are to be understood. They interpret each other. They give to the world truths which every one should understand. These prophecies are to be witnesses in the world. By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves."  {7BC 949.6}

Isn't "By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves" saying that by the earthly events that WILL transpire in these last days Daniel and Revelation will explain themselves?

[hch]

13 minutes ago, LifeHiscost said:

However I would like to suggest while not knowing the day nor the hour of Jesus' return, we are told that the body of Christ will not be taken unaware. The Word clearly identifies the four beasts as from the far past and I can see no evidence giving reason to give the scripture  double application..

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

If the traditional view is but a partial fulfillment, then the "double application" of which you speak is the final or complete fulfillment. It would be a shame to have the partial fulfillment be accepted as the real deal when that is yet future.

The Jews had that problem when they applied the prophecies relating to the Second Advent to the First Advent. So if we apply the prophecies relating to the Second Advent to historical events that we accept as the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, we are doing the same thing. If we make the same error, we will encounter the same consequences. Christ will come as prophesied, but we will not be prepared to meet Him because we didn't understand the prophecies correctly.

[hch]

I shortened this quote to keep it short. Check the original to be sure it is in context.

“The prophetic events related in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream were of consequence to him…wise men should not place upon it a false interpretation. The lessons taught by the dream were given by God for those who live in our day. The inability of the wise men to tell the dream is a representation of the limitations of the wise men of the present day, who, not having wisdom and discernment from the Most High, are unable to understand the prophecies... The man who is not listening to hear what the Lord says in His word, and who is not opening his heart to receive this word, that he may give it to others, is not a representative of the God of heaven. Not many great and learned men of the earth will gladly receive the truth unto eternal life, though to all of them the truth will be proclaimed.” (YI, November 24, 1903 par. 1 )

Remember that Laodicea is in danger because they do not realize their need. They have the Bible, Spirit of Prophecy, Sabbath, and temporal blessings, and probably think that the warning for Laodicea is for everybody else in Laodicea, but surely not themselves.

I will be away tomorrow. It would be nice to get some feedback when I come back. It is easy to be skeptical. But we are promised that light will increase until Christ Comes.

[hch]

 

“The books of Daniel and the Revelation are one… In the order of God, most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed…but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work.” (1MR 99.3 )

“Daniel’s prophecies have their proper place in the first, second, and third angels’ messages...” (1MR 99.2)  “The first, second, and third angels’ messages are to be repeated.” (RH, October 31, 1899 par. 11). “The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844.” (EW 277.1)

[Note that when the 2nd angels message is repeated something is added mentioning the corruptions that have come into the churches. it is not just saying the message again. The message that is being repeated is different in that something has been added to it.]

“In history and prophecy, the Word of God portrays the long continued conflict between truth and error. That conflict is yet in progress. Those things which have been will be repeated.” (1MR 47.3&17MR 11.1)

“The work of this angel comes in at the right time to join in the last great work of the third angel’s message as it swells to a loud cry. And the people of God are thus prepared to stand in the hour of temptation, which they are soon to meet. I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united to fearlessly proclaim the third angel’s message.” (EW 277.1) 

“Study Revelation in connection with Daniel; for history will be repeated.” (1888 1491.1)

[LifeHiscost]

4 minutes ago, hch said:

“The books of Daniel and the Revelation are one… In the order of God, most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed…but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work.” (1MR 99.3 )

“Daniel’s prophecies have their proper place in the first, second, and third angels’ messages...” (1MR 99.2)  “The first, second, and third angels’ messages are to be repeated.” (RH, October 31, 1899 par. 11). “The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844.” (EW 277.1)

[Note that when the 2nd angels message is repeated something is added mentioning the corruptions that have come into the churches. it is not just saying the message again. The message that is being repeated is different in that something has been added to it.]

“In history and prophecy, the Word of God portrays the long continued conflict between truth and error. That conflict is yet in progress. Those things which have been will be repeated.” (1MR 47.3&17MR 11.1)

“The work of this angel comes in at the right time to join in the last great work of the third angel’s message as it swells to a loud cry. And the people of God are thus prepared to stand in the hour of temptation, which they are soon to meet. I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united to fearlessly proclaim the third angel’s message.” (EW 277.1) 

“Study Revelation in connection with Daniel; for history will be repeated.” (1888 1491.1)

 

Highly enlightening comments from the "lesser light".

There has been other evidence in events that indicates quite forcibly to me that unless we, my wife and I, should pass away unexpectedly, we may be part of the generation the bible points out as being alive when Jesus appears the second time.

…29"Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 30"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 31"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. .....Mark 13

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[Tom Wetmore]

10 hours ago, hch said:

The correlation is there, but perhaps you are waiting for me to nail it down

You are still just beating around the bush.  It is not even about us being skeptical.  It is about you simply not making even a remotely credible case for what you claim.  

Of course we have been through this drill before...

[hch]

15 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Of course we have been through this drill before...

Sometimes it is necessary to go over the same ground again if it didn't go so good the other times.

[hch]

10 hours ago, Kevin(wrx) said:

I don't believe we are saved based on our knowledge of the end times.

That observation appears true on its face value.

If knowledge is unavailable to us, God will not hold it against us if we don't know something. But if knowledge is available and we refuse to pay it any mind that is a different situation. As cause is followed by effect, willful ignorance has consequences.

Hosea 4:6  "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee..."

As it was in Noah's day: knowing when to go into the ark was available to everyone. Failure to search for that knowledge and to rightly put it to use had consequences: death to those who did not enter the ark.

[hch]

10 hours ago, Kevin(wrx) said:

Which part of history specifically will be repeated? 

I don't see it as good hermeneutic to interpret the 4 beasts as separate empires in the old testament then interpret them as 4 presidents of the same empire in the end times. I don't have time to go into detail right now but we know the first beast in Revelation 13 is an empire that exists for a long time and into the past which should be interpreted as an empire. The next beast pays homage to the first so the second beast should also be an empire. Revelation does not leave any room for interesting 4 beasts as presidents. Especially if the first beast of Rev 13 is connected with the last beast of Daniel 7.

When looking at Daniel 7's vision of SEA-beasts and Heaven's interpretation as it relates to EARTH-beasts, it is grounds for examining traditional hermeneutics a little closer.

When the President like a lion (the great orator-the lion's mouth) heals the 1798 papal papal-wound on America's behalf by sending an American Ambassador to Rome the endtime meaning is more clear. And when the American President that's like a bear declares the pope to be the "world's moral leader" it's akin to making the pope the head of all the churches again. And when the Baptist leopardlike American President says of the pope "this guy is on my side" it is not hard to see how how these three American Presidents bonded so much with the papacy that the first beast in Rev 13 took on the features of the animals that depict them. And the fourth earth-beast in Daniel 7 is like pagan & papal Rome (2 entities as though they are one) two presidents depicting the lamblike horns on the beast that arises from the earth that claims to believe the principles of Republicanism and Protestantism while speaking like a dragon. 

[hch]

"Will our brethren bear in mind that we are living amid the perils of the last days? Read Revelation in connection with Daniel. Teach these things. Let discourses be short, spiritual, elevated. Let the preacher be full of the word of the Lord. Let every man who enters the pulpit know that he has angels from heaven in his audience. And when these angels empty from themselves the golden oil of truth into the heart of him who is teaching the word, then the application of the truth will be a solemn, serious matter. The angel messengers will expel sin from the heart, unless the door of the heart is padlocked and Christ is refused admission. Christ will withdraw himself from those who persist in refusing the heavenly blessings that are so freely offered them.  {SpTA08 24.1} 
     "The Holy Spirit is doing its work on the hearts. But if the ministers have not first received their message from heaven, if they have not drawn their own supplies from the refreshing, life-giving stream, how can they let that flow forth which they have not received? What a thought, that hungry, thirsty souls are sent away empty. A man may lavish all the treasures of his learning, he may exhaust the moral energies of his nature, and yet accomplish nothing, because he himself has not received the golden oil from the heavenly messengers: therefore it cannot flow forth from him, imparting spiritual life to the needy. The tidings of joy and hope must come from heaven. Learn, O learn of Jesus what it means to abide in Christ."  {SpTA08 24.2} 

[CoAspen]

Waiting....waiting....waiting.....I'm getting older!

\

 

[hch]

4 hours ago, CoAspen said:

Waiting....waiting....waiting.....I'm getting older!

As am I, but are we getting wiser while knowledge increases all about us?

[hch]

Daniel 2 was initially about the kings in Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty.

Daniel 7 was initially about the great kingdoms from Babylon to papal Rome.

When the 4-kingdom meaning of Daniel 7 was revealed, it repeated and enlarged Daniel 2 to give it a dual meaning: 1) the kings in Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty & 2) the great kingdoms from Babylon to papal Rome.

But man's wisdom overlooked the obvious meaning in Daniel 2 that relates to the kings in Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty and focused on the great kingdoms from Babylon to papal Rome that were revealed when Daniel's prophecies repeated and enlarged. That mindset limited the word of God to man's interpretation.

Then when the heavenly being interpreted Daniel 7 focusing on the future earth-kings (American Presidents), man's predisposition to limit the meaning of Daniel's prophecies to the great kingdoms from Babylon to papal Rome made null and void the increase of knowledge when it came at the appointed time.

The contradiction is evident: man focused on the enlarged meaning of Daniel 2, while man limited Daniel 7 to its initial meaning and refused to see the enlarged meaning that focused on the earth-kings, i.e., the endtime American Presidents.

And God used man's stubborn attitude to conceal (shut-up & close up) the endtime meaning of Daniel 7 until the time of the end when "knowledge shall be increased."

 But in spite of man's wisdom that focused on the obvious meaning in Daniel 7  that relates to the 4 kingdoms and overlooks the endtime kings when Daniel 7 repeated and enlarged, the word of God is sure. When the 4-kings meaning of Daniel 7 was revealed, it repeated and enlarged Daniel 7 to give it a dual meaning: 1) the great kingdoms from Babylon to papal Rome  2) the endtime kings/American Presidents.

And When the 4-king meaning of Daniel 7 was revealed, it repeated and enlarged Daniel 2 again to give it another meaning: 1) the kings in Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty, 2) the great kingdoms from Babylon to papal Rome, 3) the endtime kings/American Presidents.

[hch]

The question implied by the title of this thread: is Obama the last one? 

When Heavens interpretation is applied to Daniel 7, the prophecy is saying that there is a President like a lion, a President like a bear, a President like a leopard, and a fourth President like an indescribable beast that had previously symbolized 2 kingdoms as though they were one and thus now symbolizes 2 Presidents as though they are one.

As explained in an earlier post 3 Presidents symbolized by the lion, bear and leopard are allotted a specific amount of time=91-years. There is no starting date or end date cited in the endtime meaning of the prophecy. But Revelation 13 Identifies the symbolic earth as relating to America and the symbolism in Revelation 13 links to the first beast like a lion in Daniel 7. The lion's feature in Revelation 13 is it's mouth.

What American President is known for his mouth? Ronald Reagan, the great orator. Does he link to a 91-year prophetic period? He was 90-years old on 2/6/01. 9/11/01 was an epic event in his 91st year. Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton had "their dominion taken away" by 9/11 in that they were out of office as prophesied. And "their lives were prolonged": they were alive.

Review Revelation 13:1-10 Pope John-Paul II was the only pope ruling during their Presidencies and he spoke great things in Dies Domini.  Pope John-Paul II had a deadly wound (assassination attempt) that was healed. And the 1798 wound to the secular papacy was healed on America's behalf when Reagan recognized the Vatican as a state. And Pope John-Paul II was reinstated as head of all the churches when Bush I declared him to be the "world's moral leader." Pope John-Paul II toppled Communism without firing a shot "who could make war with him"? And Pope John-Paul II died 42-months after 9/11/01 [October, November, December 2001; 12-months 2002; 12-months 2003; 12-months 2004; January, February, March 2005]. He died 2 April 2005.

Dan 7:11  "I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake [Pope John-Paul II]: I beheld even till the beast was slain [GW & Obama], and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame [Christ's Advent]."
Dan 7:12  "As concerning the rest of the beasts [Reagan, Bush I, & Clinton], they had their dominion taken away [they were out of office] yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time [they were alive on 9/11/01]."

But this is just the beginning. With this key, the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation repeat and enlarge prophetic understanding to prepare a people to meet their God.

"Daniel was honored by God as His ambassador, and was given many revelations of the mysteries of ages to come. His wonderful prophecies, as recorded by him in chapters 7 to 12 of the book bearing his name, were not fully understood even by the prophet himself; but before his life labors closed, he was given the blessed assurance that "at the end of the days"--in the closing period of this world's history--he would again be permitted to stand in his lot and place. It was not given him to understand all that God had revealed of the divine purpose. "Shut up the words, and seal the book," he was directed concerning his prophetic writings; these were to be sealed "even to the time of the end." "Go thy way, Daniel," the angel once more directed the faithful messenger of Jehovah; "for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. . . . Go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days." Daniel 12:4, 9, 13".  {PK 547.1}

"Because the events not pleasant for consideration, are so faithfully traced by the prophetic pen; and people who are in any way troubled about the matter are soothed by their shepherds, with the statement that the revelation cannot be understood. But it is to be understood; for it especially concerns us who are living in these last days."  {SpTA07 52.2} 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I hate to say this, but the above prediction is kinda creepy.  Are you saying that President Obama will be assassinated and the United States will be thrown into something akin to anarchy?

 

[hch]

19 hours ago, Kevin(wrx) said:

Which part of history specifically will be repeated? 

Sorry I missed this earlier.

Daniel 11 is the 2300-years from 457 BC to 1844 AD spelled out that ended when Michael stood for His people to commence the IJ. The prophecy repeats at verse 11:6 [in the end of years = 1844] through 12:1 when Michael stands to declare that it is done. But when the prophecy repeats the time [2300-years] is no longer repeated just the prophetic history.

[Tom Wetmore]

9 hours ago, hch said:

Sometimes it is necessary to go over the same ground again if it didn't go so good the other times.

When I say we have been through this drill before, I was speaking of going through false "prophetic" predictions that such and such president will be the last, or this pope will be the last, or Jesus will definitely come after such and happens or will come on this date....

The associations and connect the dots approach I am reading here is looking an awful lot like reading an astrology horoscope. 

[hch]

49 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

I hate to say this, but the above prediction is kinda creepy.  Are you saying that President Obama will be assassinated and the United States will be thrown into something akin to anarchy?

No nothing like it. You will be blessed to take the time to prayerfully reread my posts on this topic a little slower.

When Daniel 11 speaks of President Obama, it says:

"And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries" (Daniel 11:21).

Very poor translation see Strong's.

And in=beyond the time

his estate=the foot [idol in Daniel 2 has 2 legs that extend into the feet -- Obama is one]

shall stand up=shall continue

Thus I read it "Beyond the time the foot [Obama] shall continue: the vile person, to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries."

[hch]

4 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

When I say we have been through this drill before, I was speaking of going through false "prophetic" predictions that such and such president will be the last, or this pope will be the last, or Jesus will definitely come after such and happens or will come on this date....

The associations and connect the dots approach I am reading here is looking an awful lot like reading an astrology horoscope. 

Thanks for the clarification Tom.

Doesn't Satan's counterfeit usually come before the authentic? And the problem is not with God, He knows the TRUTH and what is counterfeit.

"When the Lord has a genuine channel of light, there are always plenty of counterfeits. Satan will surely enter any door thrown open for him. He will give messages of truth mingling with the truth ideas of his own, prepared to mislead souls, to draw the mind to human beings and their sayings, and prevent it from holding firmly to a "Thus saith the Lord." In God's dealings with His people, all is quiet; with those who trust in Him, all is calm and unpretending. There will be simple, true, earnest believers in the Bible, and there will be doers of the Word as well as hearers. There will be sound, earnest, sensible waiting upon God".--Letter 102, 1894.  {2SM 22.1}

"The world has turned from the true and living God to serve an idol, but because of this has Satan accomplished what he desired?--No; the Lord's word reads just as it did when it was given. Satan's counterfeits do not bear God's signature. Though every son and daughter of Adam should endorse these falsehoods, God's truth would not be annihilated."  {RH, August 9, 1898 par. 7}

" While there are many counterfeits of faith in the world, there is a genuine faith, and it is this faith which works by love and purifies the soul. God in his providence set forth Noah as a representative of what true faith would do. The Lord designed that Noah in his life and character should present before the antediluvian world a marked example of the results of believing the word of God. He did not walk in sparks of his own kindling. He obtained all his discernment, all his power, all his strength, from the source of all light; for he held communion with God. It was because he had faith in God, because he was a man of prayer, that he was a man of power. He kindled his taper at the divine altar, that he might be a light to the world. He had a message entrusted to him from God. In his day there was so fearful a departure from God and His ways that hatred of God's law, contempt of truth and righteousness, was well nigh world-wide. The wickedness of men was very great, yet there was hope for them if they would turn from their wickedness, and the Lord made Noah his messenger to proclaim to the inhabitants of the Old World their sins, and to set before them wherein they had provoked the wrath of God. He told them what God proposed to do in the world. He declared to them the word of God. "And the Lord said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man; for that he also is flesh. Yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. . . . And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. . . . But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord."  {ST, April 18, 1895 par. 3}