what in Daniel connects to Obama's term as America's final president?

[hch]

In the days of Jeremiah, the people had difficulty discerning if Jeremiah or Hannaniah was the true prophet or the false.

In the days of Noah, the people had difficulty discerning if Noah was preaching the TRUE message or something that looked like astrology to them.

In the Days of Lot, his sons-in-law thought Lot had lost it. His message was so alien to their mindset.

"The nature of man unrenewed by grace is not changed in our day from what it was in Noah's time. Christ has said a similar state of things would be prior to his second coming as existed before the flood. In the days of Noah men followed the imagination of their own hearts, and the result was unrestrained crime and wickedness. The same state of things will exist in this age of the world. But will not some of the learned, the honored of the world, accept the message of warning in these last days? Will the world as a majority perish in the general impending ruin? How was it in Noah's day? as it was then Christ has said it should be. Of that vast population there was only eight persons who believed the message of Noah and obeyed God's word. In the world today the majority choose the broad road to death because the way of life is too narrow for them to walk in with their dishonesty, avarice, pride and iniquity. Now, as in the days of Noah, the overwhelming majority are opposed to the saving truth and are fascinated with lying fables."  {ST, January 3, 1878 par. 2}

[Martn]

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[Martn]

On 4/7/2016 at 7:54 AM, hch said:

Doesn't Satan's counterfeit usually come before the authentic?

There can be no counterfeit, beforehand.

Not until the genuine article is first revealed (either in actuality or by prior description) can the counterfeit be developed and presented. Unless the counterfeiter can somehow see into the mind of God and know what God is planning.

[Martn]

On 4/3/2016 at 9:55 AM, hch said:

The book of Daniel was shut sealed and closed up until the time of the end.

knowledge shall be increased

 

Archaeology is always uncovering (unsealing) ancient books. Which once were lost or which remain in an altered and incomplete state.

I predict Daniel's writings eventually will be uncovered. In their full, original form. Inasmuch as such archaeological finds are usually unfriendly to established positions, I also predict the new Daniel won't be well received.

But the wise will understand. Knowledge (of Daniel) then will be increased. For he was the recipient of many revelations. Not just the few which currently appear under his name.

[hch]

1 minute ago, MCBGM said:

The "season" and "time" (if they are even to be understood in terms prophetic symbolism) would not equal 91 years, but 450 years. A "time" being equal to one year would be 360 prophetic days, which would be 360 actual years (as in the phrase "time, times, and half a time").

How long is a year in the Bible? Setting a hard fast rule that fits an individual's understanding is not always correct.

A prophetic year is generally understood to be 360-days.

The Jews recognized that a year had 12 lunar months that averaged 28-days each=336-days.

The Jews recognized that a 12 lunar month year was less than a solar year

The Jews recognized that to keep the 12-month lunar year in sync with the solar year they had to add a 13-month lunar year=364-days

the season in Daniel 7:12 is easy to identify as 90-days that convert to 90-years 

But the time in Daniel 7:12 is not supposed to be converted to 360-years because it refers to a time prophecy after 1844. When the 2300-year prophecy ended, the instructions in Revelation 10:6 states, "there should be time no longer." Time is a year and a 360-day year is prophetically 360-years = long time/day for a year. Thus in this instance the season is supposed to be in the day for a year format but the TIME is specifically excluded from that format. After 1844 when "time" is identified in prophecy, it is literal time (a year).

Thus in the phrase "time, times, and half a time" before 1844 would be 1260-years. If it were to have an endtime application after 1844, it would be literal time (1260-days). And there are some other considerations that I have addressed in my book that I won't take time to explain here. 

[hch]

48 minutes ago, MCBGM said:

No.

There can be no counterfeit, beforehand.

Not until the genuine article is first revealed (either in actuality or by prior description) can the counterfeit be developed and presented. Unless the counterfeiter can somehow see into the mind of God and know what God is planning.

When Satan personates Christ's Second Advent, will the counterfeit come before or after Christ's Advent?

When Satan understood the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy writings, was it possible for him to craft a counterfeit before God's people developed a correct understanding? Can Satan present a counterfeit before God's people understand the truth?

[hch]

When knowledge is increased, will the blind Laodiceans see the Present Truth that Jesus sends?

If the 10 Virgins are the Laodiceans, Christ's parable suggests that 5 of them will awaken too late. Isn't that 50% (a half)?

"Satan exultingly pointed to his sympathizers, comprising nearly one half of all the angels, and exclaimed, These are with me! Will you expel these also, and make such a void in Heaven? He then declared that he was prepared to resist the authority of Christ, and to defend his place in Heaven by force of might, strength against strength."  {1SP 22.2}

[Martn]

On 4/4/2016 at 3:31 AM, hch said:

The Jews fell on this very point. They took prophecies relating to Christ's second advent and applied them to His first. And by doing so, they rejected Jesus because He did not fit their understanding.

Sadly that teaching against Jews (an old slur, really) continues being promoted by many, but not all, followers of Jesus.

It is not historically accurate.

At the time of Jesus, very few Jews lived anywhere near Judea. The vast majority were in what is now Iraq. Having, up until around 1000 years ago, little to no contact with, or knowledge of, either the "Jews" or Christians who encountered Jesus. They never even heard about Jesus. Christian missionaries were never sent to them. In fact, Christian missionaries were forbidden, from the very beginning, by their own Christian leaders even to go anywhere near them

This was because, following the Exile, almost no one returned to Judea. And of the tiny number who could afford to do so (mostly wealthy aristocrats), nearly all of them eventually gave up and went back to Mesopotamia --actually the easternmost corner of their own Promised Land, Genesis 15:18.

There, most (including most of the Jewish leadership, especially of the higher authorities) remained until around a thousand years ago. When some finally began moving into Europe, ahead of advancing Muslim invaders.

Not only did the Jews of Mesopotamia --from whom most all Jews today descend-- have very limited contact with the people of Judea, but the "Jews" of Judea were regarded largely as renegades (apostates) by the Jews of Mesopotamia. This was because a small community of Jewish aristocrats (not authorized under Torah Law to govern anyone) were the ones who resettled Judea, later forcing the majority pagan inhabitants of the region to convert to a much corrupted version of Judaism.

Thus, a mere 100 years or so before Jesus was born, virtually the entire population of Judea were full-blown pagans. Not even Jewish by birth or ancestry. As in all other forced conversions, most of course retained and maintained pagan ideas and customs in private.

These were the "Jews" who later became Christians. Though most rejected him and were eventually driven from Jerusalem.

These were the "Jews" to whom Jesus came. He was "not sent", as he himself said, except to the "lost" people of Israel. This is the reason missionaries never were sent to the Jews of Mesopotamia.

Which is why Jesus remains to this day an open possibility to Jews. If he is the one who comes and finally fulfills all the requirements for Messiah, which formerly he failed to fulfill, then he will be the Messiah, but not until then.

[hch]

Mcbgm,

I'll be more careful to paint with a more appropriate brush. Blanket statements don't cover as much as they were thought to.

[Martn]

On 4/7/2016 at 9:32 AM, hch said:

When Satan personates Christ's Second Advent, will the counterfeit come before or after Christ's Advent?

There can be no counterfeit beforehand. Unless the genuine article is first revealed (either in actuality or by prior description).

Kevin(wrx) likes this

 

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[Martn]

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[hch]

2 minutes ago, MCBGM said:

You heard only part of what I said:

There can be no counterfeit beforehand. Unless the genuine article is first revealed (either in actuality or by prior description).

Kevin(wrx) likes this

 

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That may be equally true regarding your response to my post.

2 hours ago, hch said:

Doesn't Satan's counterfeit usually come before the authentic? And the problem is not with God, He knows the TRUTH and what is counterfeit

I never imagined that the counterfeit "always comes before" but when Satan understands God's plan he prepares a counterfeit that is designed to deceive God's people before they can understand and accept the true.

[hch]

3 minutes ago, MCBGM said:

An old (and odd) theory of interpretation. Which many Adventists no longer accept. But, I see now what you meant.

Communication is a wonderful thing when it works.

If you have a reference to show that that was a theory accepted by Adventists in years gone by, I'd like to have it.

[CoAspen]

Sorry folks...but I am getting older and weaker....waiting for this strings of texts and quotes to make sense to me. I have been around since the days of Shepherds Rod and that was their way of 'predicting'. Many others have tried to do the same thing. That is simply the way conspiracies try to work their magic, never quite making a definitive point but weaving it all together hoping someone/s will do it for them. It leaves the predicter a way out when nothing happens according to their prediction. It continues on until with more agenda until they make a fatal mistake of being exact, much like the SR and others. Mount Carmel...remember that one?

 

[Jeannieb43]

Right, CoAspen.   I too have been around since the days of the Shepherds Rod people, and all their time-setting. 

I believe if hch has all this time on his hands he must be retired.   Doing crossword puzzles is good enough for my mental stimulation.   I never try to reinvent the wheel, or recalculate the 1260 years prophecy, or anything to that effect.  In fact, when I was in elementary (church) school, we were taught that the "falling of the stars" took place on a certain date [my memory escapes me now as to just which date it was, but I think it was in 1833], and the "dark day" also took place on a certain date --when the cows came home at noon, thinking night had fallen-- but now I've outlived those theories.  There have been MANY nights when "stars" have fallen -- meteor showers it's called nowadays.    Jesus' coming has been delayed--or at least it didn't happen on man's timetable.   This doesn't shake my faith in our message; it only proves to me that trying to set dates based on earthly events will never prove useful.   Our Lord will return when God is ready for that to occur; not before.   All I need do is stay close to Him, for He has promised that He will save everyone who does not actively resist.

My time is better spent studying the Scriptures, which I've only just recently started doing on the blueletterbible.org website (using the NASB translation there).   This is exciting to me.   I don't need time-setting to keep me involved with Christ and His love for each of us.

[hch]

3 hours ago, CoAspen said:

Sorry folks...but I am getting older and weaker....waiting for this strings of texts and quotes to make sense to me. I have been around since the days of Shepherds Rod and that was their way of 'predicting'. Many others have tried to do the same thing. That is simply the way conspiracies try to work their magic, never quite making a definitive point but weaving it all together hoping someone/s will do it for them. It leaves the predicter a way out when nothing happens according to their prediction. It continues on until with more agenda until they make a fatal mistake of being exact, much like the SR and others. Mount Carmel...remember that one?

Is the reply that you posted some kind a debating technique that is being employed in your commentary? It reads like assassination by comparison to other views. But without commenting on the merits of this presentation, the comparison implies that the other views were faulty and this is more of the same.

If this were a trivial matter, a trivial response might be appropriate. But the God who knows the sincerity of every heart is the only One who can judge the motives and the intent whether it is to His glory or to our shame.

[hch]

17 minutes ago, Jeannieb43 said:

My time is better spent studying the Scriptures, which I've only just recently started doing on the blueletterbible.org website (using the NASB translation there).   This is exciting to me.   I don't need time-setting to keep me involved with Christ and His love for each of us.

Jeannieb,

If I read your reply correctly, you have determined that when one gets near the end of a journey, and says "We're almost at our destination." That would be time setting? And in some way inappropriate?

As I read Daniel, Revelation and the Spirit of Prophecy, the bud comes first then the fruit. To see the bud and say that the fruit is not far away does not set the time for the harvest. There are so many things that can speed up the ripening process or delay it -- BUT to know that it is near, is a blessing so that we can prepare for the imminent harvest. On the other hand if one shrugs off the blooming, the weather, and the known gestational factors about the crop in question, they might not be ready for the harvest when it is ready to be gathered in and the crop will rot in the field before it is gathered? 

My favorite author once compared knowing that Christ's Coming is even at the door is as important for us as for Noah to know when to go into the ark. But to each one his or her own priorities.

[CoAspen]

Still waiting...

[hch]

4 hours ago, CoAspen said:

Still waiting...

Why? The information has been poosted. Did you miss a post or scan it rather than a through read?

[hch]

3 hours ago, Kevin(wrx) said:

The question I have is why didn't the SOP make any mention of reinterpreting the 4 beasts? EGW was pretty detailed on the end of days in the Great Controversy yet she makes no mention of 4 US presidents. That's kind of a big detail to overlook. 

If HCH had not used the SOP there may be slight credibility for his interpretations in that he's studied these out on his own but to use and quote the SOP along with his own interpretations seems impossible to reconcile the two together. I don't think you can logically have your cake and eat it too and remain consistent here.

The good new is that I found it in the Bible and confirmed it in the SOP. EGW being God's prophet was blessed with all the information that she needed.

" Even the prophets who were favored with the special illumination of the Spirit, did not fully comprehend the import of the revelations committed to them. The meaning was to be unfolded, from age to age, as the people of God should need the instruction therein contained."  {GC88 344.1}

"We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of God's word for truth. "Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart." Some have asked me if I thought there was any more light for the people of God. Our minds have become so narrow that we do not seem to understand that the Lord has a mighty work to do for us. Increasing light is to shine upon us; for "the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day."--Review and Herald, June 18, 1889.

[CoAspen]

Dots have not been connected to make definitive answer........waiting.....

 

[hch]

18 minutes ago, CoAspen said:

Dots have not been connected to make definitive answer........waiting.....

 

What more are you expecting?

[hch]

"Will our brethren bear in mind that we are living amid the perils of the last days? Read Revelation in connection with Daniel. Teach these things. Let discourses be short, spiritual, elevated... The application of the truth will be a solemn, serious matter. The angel messengers will expel sin from the heart, unless the door of the heart is padlocked and Christ is refused admission. Christ will withdraw himself from those who persist in refusing the heavenly blessings that are so freely offered them."  {SpTA08 24.1} 

"This is our work. The light that we have upon the third angel's message is the true light. The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood, and will not be understood until the unrolling of the scroll; but a most solemn work is to be accomplished in our world. The Lord's command to His servants is: Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." Verse 1. A message that will arouse the churches is to be proclaimed. Every effort is to be made to give the light, not only to our people, but to the world. I have been instructed that the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation should be printed in small books, with the necessary explanations, and should be sent all over the world. Our own people need to have the light placed before them in clearer lines."  {8T 159.3}

King Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty was explained in Daniel 2. Then the meaning of the prophecy was repeated and enlarged by the beast/kingdoms in Daniel 7. Then Daniel 2 was repeated and enlarged by the beast/American Presidents.

Reagan is the head of gold: Reaganomics--lion

Bush I is the chest and arms of silver--bear with three ribs in his mouth (Somalia, Panama, Iraq)

Clinton is the brass midsection (remember his midsection scandal)--leopard (Kosovo intervention)

Bush II is the first iron leg that extends into feet (iron willed; clay=mingling churchcraft with politics) -- beast's iron teeth

Obama is the second iron leg that extends into feet (elevated roll of white house office of religion)--brass nails (Hillary Secretary of State) 

When Revelation repeats and enlarges in connection with Daniel 2 and 7

Revelation

 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

• Babylon/Reagan 
• white horse=conquering general 
• bow=mentally impaired Reagan dx Alzheimer's 1994-2001  Nebuchadnezzar's 7-years of insanity

6:4 "And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

• red horse Medo-Persia/Bush
• great sword stirred up Islam against the West
• declared pope world's moral leader to all nations

6:5-6 "lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.  And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine." 

• Black horse Greece/Clinton
• HIs policies created housing bubble that burst as he left office
• hyperinflation caused havoc in Iceland, Spain, South America
• oil and wine freedom of religion still intact in USA

6:8 "a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

• pale horse  greenish/yellow
• green ripening like tender grass
• yellow ripe like grass ready to be burned
• Death Pagan Rome/Bush II declared war on Islam laid foundation for ISIS
• Hell papal Rome/Obama - we ain't seen nothing yet

[Tom Wetmore]

10 hours ago, hch said:

What more are you expecting?

As my son quipped recently, "I wasn't expecting anything and I was still disappointed."

[hch]

30 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

As my son quipped recently, "I wasn't expecting anything and I was still disappointed."

I wish I'd spent more time with my sons. Maybe a reader will be inspired to have more interaction by your son's musing?

"We are standing on the threshold of great and solemn events. Many of the prophecies are about to be fulfilled in quick succession. Every element of power is about to be set to work. Past history will be repeated; old controversies will arouse to new life, and peril will beset God's people on every side. Intensity is taking possession of the human family. It is permeating everything upon the earth. And for what?--Games, plays [tv & movies], amusements; men are rushing and crowding, and contending for the mastery. That which is common and perishable is absorbing their attention, so that things of eternal interest are scarcely thought of. Human beings, possessed with energy, zeal, and perseverance, will place all their God-given powers in co-operation with Satan's despotism to make void the law of God. Impostors of every caste and grade will claim to be worthy and true, and there will be a magnifying of the common and impure against the true and the holy. Thus the spurious is accepted, and the true standard of holiness is discarded, as the word of God was discarded by Adam and Eve for the lie of Satan."  {RH, August 31, 1897 par. 7}