Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 5, 2016 Members Share Posted April 5, 2016 You smoke? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re an alcoholic? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re a drug addict? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re a “fornicator”? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re gay? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re a glutton? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re a gossip? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re a liar? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re an adulterer? Sure. You can be in my church. You steal? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re a tax dodger? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re a snob? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re an underhanded business person? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re egotistical? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re judgmental? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re a bigot? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re a complainer? Sure. You can be in my church. You're a backbiter? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re a Bible thumper? Sure. You can be in my church. You’re poor? Well. I guess you can be in my church. Just don’t sit by me. You have mental health issues? Well. I guess you can be in my church. Just don't sit by me. You’re dirty? Well. I guess you can be in my church. Just don’t sit by me. ****************** The above is the message that could be gleaned from reading some of the recent threads on the forum. Is that really how we want to portray our church? CoAspen, Kevin H, Tom Wetmore and 1 other 4 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 None of the discussions on this particular topic have even come close to implying or saying what you have claimed. REgardless of which of those "sins" (all of them)were the topic the response would be the same. Topic after topic has been posted in recent months to promote those that are now saying "wait a minute,the bible doesn't really say this sin is wrong" or if there is an admission it is wrong it is really the fault of "those other so called christians". Is it biblically condoned,just another way of perceiving what is biblical? Period. Not should anyone be prevented from being a welcome part of the church. What do you think the response would be if the topic of adultery were treated in the same manner as the topic of homosexuality. There is a difference in a discussion between saying you believe something is wrong biblically and saying you don't want "those people" in the church. I have belonged to the same church since 1947. Over the years we have had those "guilty" of every sin you listed. Human beings being fallible as we all are, There have been those that would rather they not be there,there were more that didn't feel that way. What would cause a problem is if the person in question made every attempt to publically make their lifestyle biblical and or all those that disagreed were self righteous unloving christians. We have had many that have walked into our church that certainly didn't fit the "biblical mold" Some time ago we had a group of three that came with more gold chains than a Egyptian mummy, more metal on their faces than in a fishing tackle box. It would have been hard to find a 4 inch square of skin that wasn't covered with some pretty gross tattoo's.To compound their sins they even had a pack of cigarettes rolled in their t-shirt sleeve. Some of the very young children were a little startled as this was the first they had encountered this ,but they were greeted as the most respected member would have been and shown to their seat. Those in the pew with them greeted them and attempted to share their songbook. No one moved to another pew or to the other end as far from them as they could get. They were invited to stay for potluck which they did. It would be interesting to visit the church you present. You smoke? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re an alcoholic? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re a drug addict? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re a “fornicator”? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. You’re gay? Sorry. You can’t be in my church. Can you or anyone else find where it has even been suggested that the above "sinners' should not be "in my church"? My is meant to be general Kevin(wrx) 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Well, in my opinion, the description rudywoofs gives is exactly the experience a visitor would receive in the local church I attended--with one exception: an adulterer is welcome in the church, but only after everyone knows about it, a change of heart is evident and a baptism (or re-baptism) occurs (and even then, the adulterer is only welcomed back in name--he/she will never be accepted as "one of their own"). The OP reflects well the opinion some people have regarding the posts here at ClubAdventist. This site is a global gathering of the locals, what we do and say here reflect what's happening in the local churches. "Is this really how we want to portray our church?" CoAspen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 5, 2016 Author Members Share Posted April 5, 2016 Bonnie, my post was allegorical. You can make it in to whatever pleases you. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Pam.. This got so many sad stories in my head. the acceptable sins verses the unacceptable sins Church culture. I remember the 70's well and the smoking and the judgement. Even currently I met two ladies in two towns going to two different churches in CA who told me of being looked down and felt ostracized by the church. They love JESUS and nicotine was there addiction. I smoked for years myself. My whole family smoked! And fornication? Let me tell you a story..... Our mountain church has a Veterans Day Sabbath every year. Saluting our Church members who served our Country. This one guy was about 70? 80? Was there and celebrated as a Vet in the Service. Ive seen him a few times before. Us men were all together at a table after potluck talking. It was about five of us or so. Well the Vet started talking about his service then for some reason started bragging about all the chicks he bagged. He was young and good looking he told us and quite popular. Ahhh sweet youth! I get that! It wasn't just few sentences about it. It was a good thing the church ladies were not in the Sanctuary where we ate earlier. Well the other guys were old too at the table and started laughing. Nervous laughter? Tittering? Male bonding? I was shocked! And being a sanguine and very jovial myself I had two choices in my head. Either play along like a fool and laugh with with the others or show my indignation of talking about all the glorious deflowering in church. WelI I played the fool. I should have done more like playfully punch him in the arm and laughed real loud! "you ole dog you! ha ha ha!" I guarantee that if I had been that vet basking in my stories of all the men I had sex with. The men would not be laughing.. nervous or tittering. The air would have been sucked out of the room! And self rightouse indignation and shock would have ruled the day. Fornication? Sit by meeeeee. We will tell a tale! Homosexuality? Get away from me you queeeeeer! PS..I will not include all the good natured testimonies men (i heard for decades) share freely about chasing "Skirts" before Jesus. While the congregation quietly giggles. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 a follow up: One of the Ladies I got to know ended up moving twice since i saw her and quit smoking eventually and as far as I know has been free from it. (we still occasionally correspond on the internet) amen The other Lady went to a church on my old stomping grounds and we never exchanged contact information. I hope she is well. The Vet? I haven't seen him since and I missed one of the two Sabbath Vets celebration in the last two years. I hope he is well. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 This particular allegory is used frequently. And as it refers to the threads on homosexuality is false. The only acceptable response to most here to the repeated posts and topics on homosexuality is silence or agreement that A,it may not be wrong biblically and B if it is please don't say so as that is being judgemental. The point may be true if it were OP,s knowing we have gay member/members are the ones guilty of keeping this front and center. Always condemning gay/lesbians and rubbing their nose in their sin. Instead it is the flip side of that. The poster always bringing this up is the one rubbing the nose of those that believe it unbiblical in their self righteous judgemental sin. Perhaps if the often repeated phrase "Let him who is without sin" were taken to heart by those repeating it constantly............... There isn't anything about saying it is wrong biblically that is judgemental,nor does it reflect the behavior of most church members. Those doing most of the accusing are freely making judgements Kevin(wrx) 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 5, 2016 Author Members Share Posted April 5, 2016 If this thread was to be specifically geared at homosexuality, I would have placed it under that subforum. It's *not* specifically about homosexuality, though it appears some would like to make it so. What's interesting to me is that the basis of the OP was from observations of a very conservative Baptist minister friend who I asked to review the tenor of the forum in general and to give me feedback. I wanted to get the opinion of a non-SDA who would be sympathetic to the conservative members, and to make sure that I wasn't being off in my own observations as to how many current threads might appear to "outsiders." JoeMo, CoAspen, Kevin H and 1 other 4 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 1 hour ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said: If this thread was to be specifically geared at homosexuality, I would have placed it under that subforum. It's *not* specifically about homosexuality, though it appears some would like to make it so. What's interesting to me is that the basis of the OP was from observations of a very conservative Baptist minister friend who I asked to review the tenor of the forum in general and to give me feedback. I wanted to get the opinion of a non-SDA who would be sympathetic to the conservative members, and to make sure that I wasn't being off in my own observations as to how many current threads might appear to "outsiders." Hi Pam! I didn't think it was about gays ..per say. I thought my own personal experiences with three sins I mentioned i saw listed in the OP. Fornication Smoking Homosexuality I have been guilty of all three and have stopped doing all three. I always bring my experiences to the discussion. I am not smart enough to debate but I always look for a chance to share. BTW there are others sins listed in the OP that I didn't share about. I stopped at three! ....You can delete me so not to derail! Sorry! Gail 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted April 5, 2016 Administrators Share Posted April 5, 2016 1 hour ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said: If this thread was to be specifically geared at homosexuality, I would have placed it under that subforum. It's *not* specifically about homosexuality, though it appears some would like to make it so. What's interesting to me is that the basis of the OP was from observations of a very conservative Baptist minister friend who I asked to review the tenor of the forum in general and to give me feedback. I wanted to get the opinion of a non-SDA who would be sympathetic to the conservative members, and to make sure that I wasn't being off in my own observations as to how many current threads might appear to "outsiders." I find it interesting that the observer was a Baptist minister. I have several close friends who are also Baptist ministers and have visited their churches on several occasions ... this could well be written about their congregation(s). Perhaps it doesn't apply to your friend, or perhaps it is different in other areas, Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Pam, It is so sad how often we miss what is happening all around us because of a desire to cast out 'sin' from the church. My life would never stand up to what I believe in, that is why a personal belief is so important rather than a corporate belief. As one gets older, I just retired, I realize that what I 'know' and what I can 'control' is more and more limited. Clouding my mind with what others or the church should do loses its importance. What I do with the rest of my life and how I treat others around me, in the world and in the church has become most important. Living up to what I personally believe is hard enough with out looking at others. I have learned that enjoying life is so much easier w/o all the 'sin pointing' or wondering about, that the people I enjoy knowing and being around is much broader. God is in control and only He know a persons heart, so who am I to suggest what is 'right' for someone else. Christ always talked about 2 commands, love for God and equally love for others. That is what His life on this earth was all about. It works for me. (Off my soap box) GayatfootofCross, rudywoofs (Pam), pierrepaul and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 5, 2016 Author Members Share Posted April 5, 2016 *deleted* Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Quote God is in control and only He know a persons heart, so who am I to suggest what is 'right' for someone else. Christ always talked about 2 commands, love for God and equally love for others. That is what His life on this earth was all about. It works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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