Shadow Empire

[JoeMo]

Looks like "It is Written" and Shawn Boonstra are embarking on another vain attempt to convince the world that the papacy is the antichrist; and the RCCis the beast/harlot again.  IMHO another black eye for the SDA movement.  I'll be willing to bet that by Sat. April 30, almost all attendees will be old-school SDA's.

http://www.shadowempire.com/

[Gail]

The RCC has made great strides in acceptance within the mainstream Protestantism. We can wait and see  

OTOH, Steve Wohlberg has come out with a theory regarding where Islam works into prophecy. If nothing else, he is correct in saying that the nations are angry.

[JoeMo]

Please post a reference (if you have one).  I would LOVE to see what any modern ranking SDA has to say about the role of Islam in prophecy.  I haven't seen anything ever yet. EGW only has one reference in all her writings about Islam (that I could find); and it was pretty vague and minor.

[Gail]

https://www.audioverse.org/english/sermons/recordings/14287/isis-islam-and-the-end-times.html 

[CoAspen]

Higher Concern than.....

....., for me at least! As a church we don't need an 'enemy' to show to the world but a saviour. The world is afraid enough of their own shadow without the church trying to 'scare' people to God. No, I don't buy it as 'necessary information'. Of what value would that info been to the people above who died? A risen Saviour who came to seek and save the lost, the poor, the downtrodden, those in pain, and everyone else who wants the 'info' on what they need to be saved. What is that 'info'? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!!

Can't believe the church still chooses to be irrelevant, rather than in the hurting lives of the common everyday person.

(my 2-cents)

[LifeHiscost]

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jt3za95

This is the most comprehensive and up to date as well as easily understood picture I've located re: radical Islam. It makes perfect sense to envision it as the strongest pressure pushing against the stated "worlds highest moral authority", especially as it helps motivate some to believe traditional religious practices are more important than following Biblical Truth.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

Just in case that one didn't register.

http://www.sealingtime.com/resources/featured-speakers/tim-roosenberg/islam-and-christianity-in-bible-prophecy-tim-roosenberg

God is Love!~Jesus saves!    

[Gail]

40 minutes ago, CoAspen said:

Higher Concern than.....

....., for me at least! As a church we don't need an 'enemy' to show to the world but a saviour. The world is afraid enough of their own shadow without the church trying to 'scare' people to God. No, I don't buy it as 'necessary information'. Of what value would that info been to the people above who died? A risen Saviour who came to seek and save the lost, the poor, the downtrodden, those in pain, and everyone else who wants the 'info' on what they need to be saved. What is that 'info'? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!!

Can't believe the church still chooses to be irrelevant, rather than in the hurting lives of the common everyday person.

(my 2-cents)

I can agree with that... Jesus spent His time restoring people. We should be ready to die tomorrow, or right now, for Him. No matter how it all comes about

There is time for some surprises, tho

[Stan]

Most of the typical Adventist Teachers can be taught out of the Quaran in a Mosque.

[LifeHiscost]

5 minutes ago, Stan said:

Most of the typical Adventist Teachers can be taught out of the Quaran in a Mosque.

Is that the whole of the Qur'an without leaving any of it's teachings out? Here are some contrasting explanations between Christianity and Islam.

http://answering-islam.org/Nehls/tt1/tt6.html

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

[phkrause]

4 hours ago, Gail said:

https://www.audioverse.org/english/sermons/recordings/14287/isis-islam-and-the-end-times.html 

AMEN! Thanks for that link. That has to be the best talk of how it all comes together at the "END" that I have ever heard. This is not new by any means. Doug Batchelor has mentioned this in his latest series of talks!! Maurice Berry has a whole weekend of sermons on this subject. I could mention others, but I'll just leave it with these two.

[phkrause]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Please post a reference (if you have one).  I would LOVE to see what any modern ranking SDA has to say about the role of Islam in prophecy.  I haven't seen anything ever yet. EGW only has one reference in all her writings about Islam (that I could find); and it was pretty vague and minor.

You say you've never seen anything ever on this, but that's not entirely true!! I have posted a number of different preachers talking on this. Maurice Berry for one. I posted the new series by Doug Batchelor. Also Pastor Bohr has spoken about this also!! Anyway its out there. And the link that Gail has posted by Pastor Wohlberg is absolutely right on.

[Kevin H]

8 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Please post a reference (if you have one).  I would LOVE to see what any modern ranking SDA has to say about the role of Islam in prophecy.  I haven't seen anything ever yet. EGW only has one reference in all her writings about Islam (that I could find); and it was pretty vague and minor.

When talking about the ministry of Joseph Wolf, she pointed out that the Advent movement was not only among Christians but also Jews and Muslims.

[Bravus]

 

[phkrause]

Here's Maurice Berry speaking about Islam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdXon0FZp9g

[JoeMo]

19 hours ago, phkrause said:

but that's not entirely true!! I have posted a number of different preachers talking on this. Maurice Berry for one.

You are correct sir!  I wasn't thinking of those when I wrote this - old age thing.  Much of what you posted was very good, too!

[phkrause]

28 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

You are correct sir!  I wasn't thinking of those when I wrote this - old age thing.  Much of what you posted was very good, too!

I figured you probably forgot, but I know what you mean about old age thing!! LOL

[JoeMo]

On 4/22/2016 at 3:11 PM, Gail said:

https://www.audioverse.org/english/sermons/recordings/14287/isis-islam-and-the-end-times.html 

I watched this whole video. From an historicist traditional SDA view, it was excellent.  However, Pastor Wohlberg lost me when he said that the 5th trumpet was fulfilled in the 7th - 9th century - over 1200 years ago.  He then stated that the Ottoman Empire ended in 1840.  Historians pretty much universally agree that the Ottoman Empire began to fall apart in 1918, when the Ottomans signed a treaty with the Allied forces; and ended in 1923 when the Republic of Turkey was declared in Oct. 1923.  These inaccuracies dissuaded me from buying his story.

He left out a lot of stuff between Rev. 9 and rev. 11; like the army of 200,000,000, the fact that a third of mankind was indeed NOT killed, and the supernatural ministry of the Two Witnesses, to name a few.  Why did he leave this stuff out? Because it did not fit the scenario he was presenting.

Nonetheless, it was a good sermon; and he and others who follow and support his ministry are entitled to their opinions.  While what Pastor Wohlberg presented may not (IMO) be a fulfillment of prophecy, it certainly is a good application.

[Robert]

On 4/22/2016 at 10:48 AM, JoeMo said:

.... another vain attempt to convince the world that the papacy is the antichrist; and the RCCis the beast/harlot again.  IMHO another black eye for the SDA movement.....

Better to have black eyes then not to be able to see....

[Robert]

You must remember that Adventism didn't exist during Luther's time.  All the reformers taught that they the Papacy was the anti-christ system.  Adventist are merely supporting what the reformers already stated.  Do your homework. 

[JoeMo]

3 hours ago, Robert said:

You must remember that Adventism didn't exist during Luther's time.  All the reformers taught that they the Papacy was the anti-christ system.  Adventist are merely supporting what the reformers already stated.  Do your homework. 

I have done plenty of homework; thank you very much.  I've done enough homework to at least consider endtime scenario alternatives that are more recent than 500 years old, given the signs of the times.

Today marks the 101st anniversary of the start of the slaughter of more than 1.5 Million Armenian Christians by the Ottoman Turks prior to WW1.  The Islamic Caliphate in Turkey was dissolved in 1923 by Mustafa Ataturk, who founded the modern Republic of Turkey.  In June of 2014, ISIS announced the re-establishment of the Islamic Caliphate.  Could this caliphate (as opposed to the papacy) be the deadly wound that was healed?  Just a thought - not a complete rejection of current SDA doctrine.  Undoubtedly, both Islam and the papacy will be end-time players.

[Robert]

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I Undoubtedly, both Islam and the papacy will be end-time players.

Is Islam part of Christianity?

Answer: No

The anti-Christ comes from within Christianity.

Acts 29:28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves (wolves in sheep's clothing) will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

Phil 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Beware of the dogs (wolves in sheep's clothing), beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh....

2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths."

2 Thess 2:3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day (the second coming, see verse 1) will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s sanctuary, displaying that he himself is God.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

The apostasy is to come from within the Christian Church.  

[Gregory Matthews]

On 4/22, JoeMoe asked for references as to any modern SDA who had written on Islam in Biblical prophecy.

One major  example is Samuele Bacchiocchi, now dead.  He is probably the best known. 

Here is one of his first publications on this matter:

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_86.html

Here are later ones:  NOTE:  You may have to scroll down to find the specific comment about Islam.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_87.html

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_217.pdf     In this one SB mentions various U.S. Presidents.

Kevin Paulson has strongly disagreed with SB:

http://omega77.tripod.com/paulsenbac.htm

NOTE:  There is probably more available on this issue on the Internet.  The above should give you a start.

 

 

[thx4mercy]

You can google Tim Roosenberg.  He gives seminars on Daniel 11 and the Islam vs. Christianity.

[Robert]

"The reformers — Martin Luther and his fellow reformers — took the historicist view.  This is that prophecy is the continuity of historical events of periods until the consummation.  In other words, God gave a sequence of events of history to Daniel from his day until the end of time.  According to this school, the little horn was interpreted as refering to the papacy.

Now we know the papacy would not take that sitting down.  So they raised up two scholars, both Jesuits; one is Luis D. Alcazar, who got up the idea of the preterist view.  This means that all the prophecies of Daniel were fulfilled within either the life span or the immediate period of Daniel.  He taught that by the second century B.C. everything had been fulfilled.  If that is true, the little horn cannot refer to the papacy because the papacy came after that period.

The other Jesuit, Francisco Ribera, also from Spain, came up with the futurist idea.  Part of the prophecies of Daniel were fulfilled during his life span and the last day events will be fulfilled at the end of time and, in between, we have a gap.  That is the period of the papacy.  So the papacy is exempted from the Little Horn by both the views — preterist and futurist.  You can’t blame them for trying to defend their position.  I have no problem there.  What I do have a problem with is the fact that today almost all Protestant churches have rejected the historicist view and have gone to the Roman Catholic position of either preterist or futurist position.  The Seventh-day Adventist Church is still clinging to the historicist approach.

The historicist approach, I believe, is the true approach."

[Jack Sequeira/ Ref: http://www.jacksequeira.org/sanctuary18.htm ]