Saudis recall envoy in Danish row

[Neil D]

bbc.com 1-26-06

Saudi Arabia has recalled its ambassador to Denmark in a row about cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad published by a best-selling newspaper.

A Saudi government spokesman said the ambassador had been recalled for talks following Denmark's failure to deal with the insults to the Prophet.

Some of the cartoons in Jyllands-Posten last September depicted him as a stereotype of an Islamic terrorist.

The paper said it was testing the boundaries of expression about Islam.

It said at the time that both the paper and the cartoonist had received threats.

Ambassadors from several Muslim countries complained to Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who had earlier said he could not tell papers what to print, or not to.

Boycott

On Thursday, the Saudi government said it had recalled its ambassador "for consultations in light of the Danish government's lack of attention to insulting the Prophet Muhammad by its newspapers".

Danish food producers Arla Foods said the anger sparked by the cartoons had prompted a boycott of its dairy products in Saudi Arabia.

Arla director Finn Hansen said there had been calls for boycotting Danish products in Friday prayers and on Saudi television and in newspapers.

"We are certainly afraid this will spread across Saudi Arabia and affect our business," he told Reuters news agency.

There were street protests both in Denmark and in Muslim countries following the publication of the cartoons. [:"blue"] Here's an international incident that can cause some ruckus....And we all like ...ruckus! [/]

[Ron Lambert]

Consideration and respect for the beliefs of others is one thing, but trying to impose those beliefs on the whole world and threatening violence if democratic governments do not dictate to the free press what they can print, is something else. It is far beyond what the West should put up with.

[Dr. Shane]

The fundamentalist muslems are and have been looking for a fight. They want an excuse to kill and recruit others to kill. The reason they attacked the US was to create a response that would help them in their recruitment. They are wicked and heartless. They would cut off our heads because we don't believe as them. We are infidels to them.

Now I use to think that these fundamentalists made up only a small percentage of muslems and that most muslems were peace-loving people. I believed that way based on my experience. I went to college with a lot of muslems and they were all peace-loving people - at least they seemed to be. However the recent election in Palestine tends to tell the world that most Palestinians do not want peace - they want war. They want to kill.

Killing over a cartoon is beyond stupid. These are the same people that kill civilan women and children. These are the same that convince young boys to kill themselves. And some don't think we should be concerned about them getting a nuclear bomb

This isn't about poverty. It isn't about not being understood. It is about being economically disadvantaged. It is about hatred and maybe about brainwashing.

[Kountzer]

I know this isn't pc, but islam is a goofy religion.

DB

[David_McQueen]

I feel that the response over the cartoon by some extremists is way over the top, but we need to be careful in the general responses we make. Remember the military incursions into Iraq and Afgnhanistan were made in the name of God Christianity, so from the other point of view, it would seem religion is a whole is being made to look goofy by a few!

[Ron Lambert]

No David, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were made in the name of justice, in response to terrorist attacks against America and threats of more.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

Ron Lambert said:

No David, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were made in the name of justice, in response to terrorist attacks against America and threats of more.

---

That may be OUR point of view...However, it doesn't negate the Iraqi or Afghanistan points of views...

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

Remember the military incursions into Iraq and Afgnhanistan were made in the name of God Christianity

---

Now that is perhaps what Osamma bin Laden is teaching but I don't thank many that live in free societies fall for that goofy prespective.

[james423]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Ron Lambert said:

Consideration and respect for the beliefs of others is one thing, but trying to impose those beliefs on the whole world and threatening violence if democratic governments do not dictate to the free press what they can print, is something else. It is far beyond what the West should put up with.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

1. I agree with you.

2. I would also like to add that sending suicide bombers to target Western countries, which Muslim organizations are doing, is not showing any consideration for others in the first place.

3. Wednesday I found one of the cartoons - the one where their prophet says to a line of suicide bombers coming to heaven that he has run out of virgins (refering to the belief that a bomber gets X number of virgins for his own exclusive use if he blows himself up and goes to heaven). To me the cartoon was nothing that bad.

4. NBC News said last night that Danish Muslims had travelled to Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt stirring up their fellow Muslims about the cartoons. They certainly don't want to respect the more open nature of Danish society.

5. Having said all this, I believe the paper should not have run the cartoons - not because of fear but out of consideration for a much more sensitive religion.

[gina i]

Extreme Islam is goofy.

So are extreme Christians.

And extreme buddhists.

[Kountzer]

Quote:

---

gina i said:

Extreme Islam is goofy.

So are extreme Christians.

And extreme buddhists.

---

I agree. Being a nominal christian will get u sent to the same lake of fire.

What I don't get is that in muslim countries christians and jews are unfairly depicted as decadent pagans, and baby killers, gross murderers and all that, on a regular basis. No one over there rails against the unfairness of all that. Yet when someone draws a cartoon they don't like they all want to burn down bldgs. Christianity gets mocked and derided everyday of the week. You can't turn on a comedy show and not see or hear it. It could be richard pryor, or south park or dave chapelle, to name only a very few. Mocking Jesus and the church is big business. It is in quite a few movies also. That's the way we roll in the west. We have freedom of expression like that. It doesn't bother me because I know in the end Jesus and his true church are going to triumph.

DB

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

Being a nominal christian will get u sent to the same lake of fire.

---

This sstatement bothers me....What is concidered "nominal"?

A person who claims the name of Christ is concidered a Christian...but who is it that figures out if the same person is a follower of Him?

Another thing that boathers me is that at one time, Islamic believers were very well educated. Of course, our news media shows these houses made out of mud and mortor, what we would think of as substandard housing, and thus not very intelligent. Of course, this lack of protecting freedom of speech was never big on thier list of mores...But if you remember, Algebra came from the Islamic pennesula, so they can not be all that unintelligent.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

A person who claims the name of Christ is concidered a Christian...but who is it that figures out if the same person is a follower of Him?

---

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" Philp 2:12, 13

So I guess the answer is God.

[Kountzer]

There are nominal christians. Notice I didn't say who, I just know they exist.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

There are nominal christians. Notice I didn't say who, I just know they exist.

---

Hmmmm.....so what Christian would you call 'nominal"? Does the thief on the cross qualify as a 'nominal' christian? How do you determine which christian are nominal christians? Since you know that they exist, you must know how to qualify them....What is the standard?

I guess the more I look at this, the more I am bothered by this, what appears to be a judgemental statement as to who can be concidered a minimalistic Christian....mayabe I am to judgemental myself, as I tend to think that either you are or you ain't a Christian....Kinda, sorta like being a 'little bit pregnant"...

[Kountzer]

Quote:

---

Neil D said:

Quote:

---

There are nominal christians. Notice I didn't say who, I just know they exist.

---

Hmmmm.....so what Christian would you call 'nominal"? Does the thief on the cross qualify as a 'nominal' christian? How do you determine which christian are nominal christians? Since you know that they exist, you must know how to qualify them....What is the standard?

I guess the more I look at this, the more I am bothered by this, what appears to be a judgemental statement as to who can be concidered a minimalistic Christian....mayabe I am to judgemental myself, as I tend to think that either you are or you ain't a Christian....Kinda, sorta like being a 'little bit pregnant"...

---

Read matt 7:21-23 or chap 25.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

so what Christian would you call 'nominal"?

---

Revelation 3

14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15. I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18. I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

Read matt 7:21-23 or chap 25

---

[:"green"] Matthew 7:21-23

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' [/]

Again, the question: How do you know who does the will of the Father? How do YOU make that determination?

Quote:

---

Revelation 3

14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;...ect

---

So, Shane, you would make the claim that everyone from the Laodicean church is 'nominal'?

Anyone else think that that is a bit strict?

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

---

you would make the claim that everyone from the Laodicean church is 'nominal'?

---

No. It appears to me to be a generalization. Most in Laodica are nominal. It is up to each one of us individually to examine ourselves and "if the shoe fits, wear it" or better yet, repent.

[Kountzer]

Quote:

---

Neil D said:

Quote:

---

Read matt 7:21-23 or chap 25

---

[:"green"] Matthew 7:21-23

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' [/]

Again, the question: How do you know who does the will of the Father? How do YOU make that determination?

Quote:

---

Revelation 3

14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;...ect

---

So, Shane, you would make the claim that everyone from the Laodicean church is 'nominal'?

Anyone else think that that is a bit strict?

---

I just mentioned nominality in the christian church. I didn't say anything about who fits into that category. That's up to the Lord.

DB

[Neil D]

Quote:

---

I just mentioned nominality in the christian church. I didn't say anything about who fits into that category. That's up to the Lord.

---

Excuse me! THAT is NOT what you said....Here again is what you said...

Quote:

---

I agree. Being a nominal christian will get u sent to the same lake of fire.

---

This statement implys that a high [and possibly impossible]standard is barely good enough for being a christian, let alone a "nominal" christian.

It also implys that YOU know what that standard is....even though, by your admition , you don't know what the standards are...

What is bothering me is that I don't see a 'nominal' standard...What is also bothering me is that there is a standard being imputed by a fellow christian.....and that fellow christian is not willing to share what he believes to be THE minimum behavior that is acceptable...This is a judgemental attitude that has permiated the thinking processes and can color others into believing that there are some christians better at being 'christian' than some christians...It confuses what is acceptable behavior and what is not....

My bible tells me that the ground at the foot of the cross is level, no one is better and no one is less than any other diciple....And this insidious attitude permiates the thinking processes into a subconscious superior 'lording it over another', to which our Lord says shall not be among his followers. Even so, it shows up among the Greeks christians in the NT.

Perhaps I have a 'burr under my saddle', perhaps not...but the statement is disturbing to me....I suspect that it should be disturbing to many others....

[Kountzer]

Quote:

---

Neil D said:

Quote:

---

I just mentioned nominality in the christian church. I didn't say anything about who fits into that category. That's up to the Lord.

---

Excuse me! THAT is NOT what you said....Here again is what you said...

Quote:

---

I agree. Being a nominal christian will get u sent to the same lake of fire.

---

This statement implys that a high [and possibly impossible]standard is barely good enough for being a christian, let alone a "nominal" christian.

It also implys that YOU know what that standard is....even though, by your admition , you don't know what the standards are...

What is bothering me is that I don't see a 'nominal' standard...What is also bothering me is that there is a standard being imputed by a fellow christian.....and that fellow christian is not willing to share what he believes to be THE minimum behavior that is acceptable...This is a judgemental attitude that has permiated the thinking processes and can color others into believing that there are some christians better at being 'christian' than some christians...It confuses what is acceptable behavior and what is not....

My bible tells me that the ground at the foot of the cross is level, no one is better and no one is less than any other diciple....And this insidious attitude permiates the thinking processes into a subconscious superior 'lording it over another', to which our Lord says shall not be among his followers. Even so, it shows up among the Greeks christians in the NT.

Perhaps I have a 'burr under my saddle', perhaps not...but the statement is disturbing to me....I suspect that it should be disturbing to many others....

---

Dude you've been online too long. Find another hobby. Take a chill pill.

DB

[Parade Orange]

just reading and observing