Is it good news or not!

[Tom Wetmore]

Is it simply good news? Or a complex riddle to be solved in order to be saved?

Why do I get the impression from many discussions of the Gospel that  God is playing a cruel  "gotcha" game with our eternal destiny?  "Ha ha ha!  So sorry you misunderstood the subtle intricacies of ancient words, symbols, object lessons, and metaphors. You lose!"

How many people just give up in the confusion, thinking they are just too dumb to be saved?

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

How many people just give up in the confusion, thinking they are just too dumb to be saved?

I think that people give up because they begin to BELIEVE that they are too dumb to be saved.  Some denominational (all denominations - not just SDA's) conversations (written and oral) get so passionate and complex that the average person is overwhelmed and stupefied. So we give up in confusion.  Just look at some of the threads here on CA.  Discussion on some (what I believe to be) trivial subjects get become so passionate (even argumentative) that all but 2 or 3 posters give up on.  I must admit that at times, I have been the instigator of debate over non-salvational issues.

The salvational gospel is quite simple - it is summarized nicely in a single very familiar passage - John 3:16 - 17.  Almost everything else follows this, or is non-salvational information. (Emphasis on ALMOST - I'm not including stuff like the 10 Commandments as "non-salvational")

 

[Jeannieb43]

2 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Is it simply good news? Or a complex riddle to be solved in order to be saved?

 

How many people just give up in the confusion, thinking they are just too dumb to be saved?

And how do OUR actions/words play into that mindset for struggling Christians?   (e.g., "You have to BE perfect in every way before Jesus comes;"  "You can't do ANYTHING WRONG, or make any MISTAKES, or you won't be saved." 

I believe God loves us just as we are.   I believe He will take us home to heaven with Him unless we ACTIVELY RESIST, as long as we have accepted His sacrifice for us on the cross and given our hearts to Him.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

24 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

I think that people give up because they begin to BELIEVE that they are too dumb to be saved.  Some denominational (all denominations - not just SDA's) conversations (written and oral) get so passionate and complex that the average person is overwhelmed and stupefied. So we give up in confusion.  Just look at some of the threads here on CA.  Discussion on some (what I believe to be) trivial subjects get become so passionate (even argumentative) that all but 2 or 3 posters give up on.  I must admit that at times, I have been the instigator of debate over non-salvational issues.

The salvational gospel is quite simple - it is summarized nicely in a single very familiar passage - John 3:16 - 17.  Almost everything else follows this, or is non-salvational information. (Emphasis on ALMOST - I'm not including stuff like the 10 Commandments as "non-salvational")

Does everyone agree on what is a salvational issue and what is not?  (just asking — not sure if all agree, or not)   Because if the issue is salvational, then it's not likely to be debatable.  It's the side stuff that could be debated/discussed, but that's also the stuff that makes people most hot under the collar if others don't agree with someone's set opinions.  And it's the side stuff that makes people leave the church.

[Kevin H]

I see it as the opposite. We have traditions that make it a complex riddle. We want to prove theory of church history. We want to fit the Bible into the presuppositions of the fundamentalists.  When people learn that there are two possible translations for the battle where the sun stood still, we want the exciting possibility. (either the sun did not move, or the sun was "still" for a day by not shining due to being covered with a thick hail cloud).  As we get away from these traditions and get a better understanding of the language, poetry forms, geography and culture we learn a much simpler message. Our problem is digging through the piles of traditions and granted our lack of knowledge of the original context.  

[JoeMo]

There are those that think everything in the Bible is salvational; or if they think it's salvational; then everyone who disagrees with their position is going to hell.

Two examples are Sabbath keeping and the papacy being the antichrist.  To me, Sabbath keeping is inseparably intertwined with my relationship to Jesus.  Sabbath is "goog news"!  Does that mean that everyone who doesn't keep "my" seventh-day Sabbath is doomed to condemnation?  I personally don't think so.  I (for one) almost totally dismiss the possibility of the Pope being the end-time AntiChrist (although I don't dismiss the papacy's probable starring role in end-time events).  Does this mean I might lose my salvation because I have taken my eyes off of he that EGW has proclaimed to be the antichrist?  I personally don't think so.

We are all different people with different histories and baggage.  God may have a "customized" salvation plan for each of us.  Maybe the plan of salvation He has set up for me has a different set of priorities than it has for someone else.  What is "good news" to me might be "scary stuff" for someone else; and vice-versa.

[Robert]

Keep this in ,mind:

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

 

[Robert]

7 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Why do I get the impression from many discussions of the Gospel that  God is playing a cruel  "gotcha" game with our eternal destiny?  "Ha ha ha!  So sorry you misunderstood the subtle intricacies of ancient words, symbols, object lessons, and metaphors. You lose!"

Simply stated the gospel is the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ as the Son of Man and the Son of God.  

How God saved us "in Christ" is a bit more complex, but then so is calculus or obtaining a college degree.  If we make time for our education why not take time to learn the gospel?

[Gail]

Great question! Perhaps after John 3:16 the next salvational step should be, "Take my yoke upon you and learn of me." I wonder how many arguments might be saved if that was taken as seriously.

As we know that God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33), so if someone if confused by complexity it might do well to back up to basic until the fog lifts. I find that helps me.

I have discovered that often a spiritual topic grows the more I learn of it. If that is the case for others, too, it might behoove (YES, I get to use that word!) us to be patient with others. What a blessing it would be to teach those who don't know as much and learn from those who are beyond us.

Often there are many acceptable angles to a subject. I would expect there to be so; after all, the Holy Spirit is unifying AND teaching individually at the same time. It is we humans who are the obstinate ones, who refuse to grow according to the Spirit. We are the ones that hold Him up with our arguing about points to the place where no one expands. By arguing we stagnate a topic, IMHO. I suspect we also stagnate ourselves when the idea is to prove rightness. Everyone pulls back and nobody benefits.

[CoAspen]

Disagree....."How God saved us "in Christ" is a bit more complex,..."! That is the issue of the question TW asked! Humans wish, for whatever reason, to make it complex. Time and time again the NT, words of Christ and the Gospel Writers, say "Believe and be saved". Not everyone has the need for calculus or degrees in order to be successful in life. If one wishes to earn more the opportunity is there, but not a requirement.

[JoeMo]

Many of us have "pet" issues or interests concerning various aspects of scripture.  I have an obsession with end-time prophecy (in case you haven't noticed).  But even though I am quite passionate about it, I realize that being 100% accurate in my interpretation  is not a prerequisite for salvation.  My understanding of salvation by grace, and that Jesus is our Lord, Savior, Example, and Substitute might be a prerequisite.

"Understanding" might be too strong of a word.  maybe "belief in" is more accurate.

[Robert]

1 hour ago, CoAspen said:

... the Gospel Writers, say "Believe and be saved".

We put our faith in Christ because He has saved us from????

The answers are as numerous as the Christian denominations. 

Some say "hell". 

Others say "sin".  

Still others say "the curse of the law".

My point?

It's important that we understand truth.  

[CoAspen]

Never give up on trying to make it complex!!!!!

[Aliensanctuary]

Religions do tend to make this issue complicated and contradictory.

The most important issue is to decide whether or not to commit to love, honor, and obey our Creator. This would be like entering into a contract, or covenant with our Master. 

Following our agreement, we must re-direct our focus in life in order to accomplish these three things. Part of that re-direct would be to commit to doing no harm to others, or ourselves. Because we have agreed to become servants of our Creator, we must also become servants of mankind, living to serve and help others, a self-sacrifice which is what has occurred and will continue to occur in the Kingdom of YHVH, forever.

That is how one would join the Kingdom in Three [Easy] Steps.

The Good News part is that by following this three-fold path there will be a great reward, which is living forever as servants of YHVH with no sickness, sorrow, or death to mar that experience. If we stray from the path and fall into the ditch, we can still return to the path, yet, must realize that everytime we intentionally fall into the ditch, it will become more and more difficult to crawl back onto the path.

[Robert]

6 hours ago, CoAspen said:

Never give up on trying to make it complex!!!!!

Life is complex, but when it comes to understanding truth folks would rather watch TV.  So there you go....

[Robert]

2 hours ago, Aliensanctuary said:

The Good News part is that by following this three-fold path there will be a great reward, which is living forever as servants of YHVH with no sickness, sorrow, or death to mar that experience. If we stray from the path and fall into the ditch, we can still return to the path, yet, must realize that everytime we intentionally fall into the ditch, it will become more and more difficult to crawl back onto the path.

That's not good news, that's good advice.

[Aliensanctuary]

The good news is that we all have a chance at becoming members of the Kingdom. It may not be an easy journey, but it's do-able according to JC.

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Aliensanctuary said:

The good news is that we all have a chance at becoming members of the Kingdom. It may not be an easy journey, but it's do-able according to JC.

No, Alien, that's not good news, that's good advice.  

The good news is that "in Christ Jesus" I stand positively righteous now and in the judgement.  I am complete in Him.

[Gerr]

The gospel is so simple so that rightly presented even a child should be able  to understand and be saved by it, and at the same time so complex that it will be the subject of study throughout eternity.

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote

The good news is that "in Christ Jesus" I stand positively righteous now and in the judgement.  I am complete in Him.

The power of positive thinking.

[Robert]

6 hours ago, Gerry Cabalo said:

The gospel is so simple so that rightly presented even a child should be able  to understand and be saved by it, and at the same time so complex that it will be the subject of study throughout eternity.

Bingo!

[Gregory Matthews]

Wanderer:  In another thread you responded to a post of mine in which I stated that intellectual responses may not be the right kind of answers to some questions.

Your post above is an example of such.   It is filled with examples of pain and relationships:

"things they didn't do"

"treated like common garbage"

"give you the boot"

"do not get told what is expected"

etc.

I am sorry for your painful experience.  If you and I were speaking face to face, I would ask you to tell me more about those experiences.

 

 

[Unchained]

Salvation is about developing trust and faith in God, to realize that we are helpless and in need of supernatural help. The details of this is something which we don't necessarily understand here on Earth. Like the thief on the cross we might not get the chance to get a deep explanation of the theory behind the plan of salvation, but we can still place our trust in God and be saved. Jesus is offering to take us by his hand and lead us to heaven, and believing in his power is all it takes to be saved.

I like the way Ellen White explains this:

"Some among the redeemed will have laid hold of Christ in the last hours of life, and in heaven instruction will be given to those who, when they died, did not understand perfectly the plan of salvation. Christ will lead the redeemed ones beside the river of life, and will open to them that which while on this earth they could not understand." — Undated Manuscript 150. {1SM 262.2}

[LifeHiscost]

On 5/11/2016 at 5:20 AM, Tom Wetmore said:

 

How many people just give up in the confusion, thinking they are just too dumb to be saved?

Whether dumb or just unfortunate, it is important to recognize our true condition and accept the fact that the enemy we fight has already lost the battle to the Love of Christ.

9"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it? 10"I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.…Jeremiah 17

12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand.…Ephesians 6

…4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. 5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. ...John 15

Riding on the wave of successful living becomes a snare unless humility is accepted as a gift of the Holy Spirit.

12I know how to live humbly, and I know how to abound. I am accustomed to any and every situation—to being filled and being hungry, to having plenty and having need. 13I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. Philippians 4

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

[Gerr]

ESV | ‎1 Jn 5:12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 

 

See?  It's really very simple, but as they say, the devil is in the details.