Thoughts on "the man of sin"

[Robert]

Adventist are about the only Protestant denomination remaining that links the Papacy to "the man of sin", but this truth did not originate first with Adventists rather it started with the Protestant reformers. In that respect Adventists aren't the originators. 

Now, having stated this fact, Adventists in general are always looking for signs that this religio-political power is coming into fruition.  Of course one of these signs is the Sunday law.  Yet, in all their attempts to interpret these signs, I believe they are overlooking the obvious.  The best way to explain myself is to quote Paul in second Thessalonians chapter two, verses three through four:

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"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that day (i.e, the second coming, see verse one) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

The real coming issue doesn't involve nitpicking at various conspiracy theories and/or signs.  Instead "the man of sin" will, with all certainty, prove "that he is God" and he will do this through Divine like power: 

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"He (i.e., "the man of sin") does astounding miracles, even making fire flash down to earth from the sky while everyone was watching.  And with all the miracles he was allowed to perform on behalf of the first beast, he deceived all the people who belong to this world*." Revelation 13:13,14

Note *  Keep in mind as Christians we are not of the world. See John 15:19

[Robert]

3 hours ago, Robert said:

 "...He sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

 "The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ (i.e., God), hidden under a veil of flesh." 

This quote is from "The Catholic National" July 1895.  Many Catholic apologists have denounced it as the official position of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC).   A few apologists believe it.  That, however, is not the issue.  The fact is it will come about according both the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John. 

Also keep in mind that the majority of God's people are within the RCC.  When these things manifest themselves there will be a shaking within this denomination.  Hence the call, "Come out of her, my people", will be revealed in a mass exodus.

My point?  Speculation is useless.  What is to happen will happen.  Are you resting in Christ as your righteousness?  If not, you will be deceived. 

[Kevin H]

The idea that the Pope was the man of sin is even older than the reformation. According to Wikipedia the first was  The 10th-century Catholic bishop Arnulf of Orleans, and that Joachim of Floris gave the same interpretation in 1190, Joachim was accepted by many as a true prophet of God, especially by the Franciscan order. We are as much Joachimites as we are Millerites. So the Franciscans were saying that the Pope was the man of sin prior to the rise of Protestantism.

Interestingly the Evangels/Dispensationalists are also based on Joachim being a true prophet. The difference is that we take Joachim's basic framework (not all the details) and it was developed by the Franciscans, came into Protestantism and the Advent movement in England in the 1700s (Sir Isaac Newton belonged to this movement), into a set of Bible Conferences (Don't remember for sure but I believe the Postdam conferences or something like that) in the late 1700s until about 1830 where their findings were picked up by William Miller....

The Evangels/Dispensationalists on the other hand  Francisco Ribera took one specific part of Joachim's teaching and developed that into a whole new thing that Joachim would not recognize. Also we are more Franciscan in thought while they are more Augustinian in thought. (also interesting, in trying to avoid the Sabbath they make less of the law than any of their spiritual forefathers, and to avoid Mrs. White being a prophet they close prophecy out with the Bible and no longer recognize Joachim as a prophet, even though their whole theology would be like if we saw Mrs. White as a prophet but refused everything else she had to say except for her description of the shut door and base our whole theology on the shut door.)

A thing that we need to be careful about is that the idea of the Pope being the man of sin was present truth in the Dark Ages, and while the Pope will still play a big role in the last days, that as we move from the 5th head, through the deadly wound while approaching the 7th head, there could well be a truth that is not yet present where if we don't hold the balance between seeing where God lead us in the past, we can become unbalanced and either not see where the Lord lead us in the past and thus miss the present truth when it comes, or be so focused on and clinging to present truth of the past that warnings of what is going to come can be welcomed in the back door.

[CoAspen]

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.....there could well be a truth that is not yet present where if we don't hold the balance between seeing where God lead us in the past, we can become unbalanced and either not see where the Lord lead us in the past and thus miss the present truth when it comes, or be so focused on and clinging to present truth of the past that warnings of what is going to come can be welcomed in the back door.

[Robert]

1 hour ago, Kevin H said:

The idea that the Pope was the man of sin is even older than the reformation. According to Wikipedia the first was  The 10th-century Catholic bishop Arnulf of Orleans, and that Joachim of Floris gave the same interpretation in 1190, Joachim was accepted by many as a true prophet of God, especially by the Franciscan order. We are as much Joachimites as we are Millerites. So the Franciscans were saying that the Pope was the man of sin prior to the rise of Protestantism.

I tend to agree with a statement of Ellen White's:

"Not yet, however, can it be said that 'Babylon is fallen,... because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.' She has not yet made all nations do this." [Maranatha - Page 172]

Babylon has not fallen.  Yes, you can be a SDA and be in Babylon.  I did not say that the SDA church is Babylon.  The problem with spiritual Babylon (as opposed to Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon) is she brings glory to herself.  The idea that men can merit salvation through his obedience is to glory* in oneself, period.

To my understanding "the man of sin" is not a particular past Pope.  That position is yet future.  

*  "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." Gal 6:14

[fccool]

I'm actually amazed as to how many Adventist Pastors have no clue about Adventist theology when it comes to eschatological timeline that Adventists laid out. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the GC view seems to be:

1)  &*&%Storm hits the entire planet when it comes to political, health, ecological, and economical realms

2)  Satan mascarades as Christ who returns the second time and proclaims his kingdom on Earth.

3)  He institutes the legal system, along with the mark of the Beast, which is the Sunday law in that context

 

So, given the above, I'm always baffled as to why there's "end times are near" type of talk every time there's some singular event, or when the Pope does anything decisive.   I'd think that in context of such theology "the end times are near" would predicate on one thing and one thing only - the guy Flying through the sky (and as Dough Bachelor imagines... being televised globally) claiming to be Jesus.  If that indeed happen, I think most of my doubts about Adventist theology would be instantly gone

[Robert]

14 hours ago, fccool said:

....my doubts about Adventist theology would be instantly gone

Keep in mind, though there is much speculation among SDA concerning the Papacy,  that this issue with the Papacy isn't an SDA doctrine.  SDA are just continuing to present what the reformers presented.