Time For Compassion

[Dr. Shane]

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"I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend, and that's something I'll never forget."

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"The image of him falling is something I will never be able to get out my mind," Cheney said, somberly. "It was one of the worst days of my life."

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"I turned and shot at the bird, and at that second, saw Harry standing there. Didn't know he was there," Cheney said. "I saw him fall, basically. It had happened so fast."

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The vice president added that Whittington was standing in a gully so only his upper body was visible, and that the sun was facing Cheney, which "affected the vision, too, I'm sure."

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Whittington, whom Cheney described as an acquaintance he's known for more than 30 years, was hit with more than 200 birdshot pellets from an estimated 30 yards away.

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"I said, 'Harry, I had no idea you were there,'" Cheney recounted. "He didn't respond. He was — he was breathing, conscious at that point, but he didn't — he was, I'm sure, stunned, obviously, still trying to figure out what had happened to him."

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Earlier this week, the White House and Katharine Armstrong, the owner of the ranch and an eyewitness to the accident, implied that Whittington did not follow hunting protocol because he didn't announce to Cheney and the other hunter that he had returned from retrieving his kill. On Wednesday, the vice president made clear that Whittington wasn't responsible for being hit.

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"The vice president wished Mr. Whittington well and asked if there was anything he needed. ... The vice president said that his thoughts and prayers are with Mr. Whittington and his family,"

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Link >>> Cheney: 'I'm the Guy Who Pulled the Trigger' <<<

Now we get to see the human side of the story - not just politics. I bet he wishes it was him in the hospital and not the other guy.

[Gerr]

The press doesn't like the guy. They are just trying to find a way to crucify him. Did I lose anything by learning of the incident the following day? What's the big deal? It was reported to the sheriff, wasn't it? Now, if it was the VP that was shot, that may be a little bit different. How many people care to know if I got shot?

Gerry

[Bravus]

The issue is not so much how long the story took to come out, but how long Cheney took to speak to the local authorities. He has admitted drinking "a beer" at lunch before the shooting, so it's possible alcohol played a part in the accident. Plenty of people are very remorseful over injuries they caused after drinking... but we still want them to face the consequences, yes?

[Bravus]

I think the point in this whole case is: "What consequences would an ordinary citizen face in this situation?" And "Is it fair if Cheney avoids those consequences on the basis of power?"

The bottom line is "What kind of America do you want to live in?"

[there buster]

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"What consequences would an ordinary citizen face in this situation?"

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30 seconds with Google can clear up "this whole point." Between 500-1000 non-fatal hunting accidents occur every year. In the vast majority of cases--- NOTHING HAPPENS. That's why they call them accidents.

In light of that, let's examine the second "big" question.

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"Is it fair if Cheney avoids those consequences on the basis of power?"

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Since nothing happnes, let's substitute that for "those consequecnes."

That yields:

"Is it fair if Cheney avoids NOTHING on the basis of power?"

This is just another case where irrational antipathy has blinded critics.

For very many of these accidents, nobody beyond the circle of the parties involved ever hears about it.

[Gerr]

My understanding was that the incident was very quickly reported to the local authorities. One beer making someone drunk? C'mon.

Gerry

[bonnie]

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Bravus said:

The issue is not so much how long the story took to come out, but how long Cheney took to speak to the local authorities. He has admitted drinking "a beer" at lunch before the shooting, so it's possible alcohol played a part in the accident. Plenty of people are very remorseful over injuries they caused after drinking... but we still want them to face the consequences, yes?

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Bravus,

Just a little curious over your statement that it is possible that alcohol played a part in this story. Not to long ago you said that you could picture Christ sitting down with you having a beer. Also that you felt that it was more than possible for couples to visit together for an evening (forgot the exact phrasing) have a drink or two and have a perfectly enjoyable time together. If this beer that Cheney had a noon would have impaired his judgement several hours later enough for this to be a factor in injuring his friend , could you explain again how Christ would indulge in such behavior? How would or could Christ given who he is, and what he represents to us (our salvation) take anything for his pleasure that would alter his ability to behave responsibly for several hours? How could he encourage you, by sitting down with you and sharing a beer , to do something that would possibly put you or another in harm's way? Or is this because it is Cheney and you want to find something wrong with him having a beer at noon that you would now consider it having a harmeful effect on the human body/brain hours later? You can legally drive after one beer and a lot more people die as a result of automobile deaths than they do guns. One beer is one to many for me, but you saw nothing wrong with the picture of you and Christ sharing one.

Bonnie

[Bravus]

I still don't have too many issues with picturing Christ having that beer. I do have trouble picturing him with a shotgun at all, let alone shooting poor tame caged quail. But I realise that may come out of my own preconceptions. I think at the time we had that long discussion around alcohol I was very clear that it's subject to abuse, and 'drinking and shooting' is even more abuse than drinking and driving.

[Dr. Shane]

Actually guns and booze are quite different than drinking and driving.

If you go out hunting with someone who is drinking, you are taking on certain risks you are aware of. That is not the same as an innocent person driving down the road and getting hit by a drunk driver. Guns and booze is bad but drinking and driving is much worse. Drinking and driving also kills more people than guns and booze.

Furthermore, there is no evidence that Chenney was under the influence of alcohol when the accident happened. Although it was a good question by Brit Hume.

[Bravus]

True, Shane - everyone in the party knew the risks.

There is evidence Cheney had been drinking - he said so himself. Whether he was under the influence is a different but obviously related question.

What a pity he chose not to face the local sheriffs and take a breath test, then we'd all know.

[Dr. Shane]

The people in his party knew and HE SHOT A LAWYER! If he was drinking the guy can sue him. And if the guy that got show isn't going to make an issue out of it, why should anyone else?

This isn't affecting any public policy. The same people that thought we shouldn't be concerned about adulterous, oral sex in the Oval Office seem awefully interested in this hunting accident. Have they forgotten all their talk about private lives?

Clinton's indescretions 1. were adultry which goes to trust (if his wife can't trust him can the nation?) 2. were done in his office when we was to be working (not on personal time) 3. were fraternization and 4. established a pattern of womanizing which included allegations of abuse. Now if the liberals still felt that his private life should remain private, why the obsession with Chenney's hunting life?

[Neil D]

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The people in his party knew and HE SHOT A LAWYER! If he was drinking the guy can sue him. And if the guy that got show isn't going to make an issue out of it, why should anyone else?

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Because it ain't about the lawyer.... It's about policy... If you or I did what Cheney did, we would have been interviewed THAT VERY EVENING... We would have been investigated and that inquiry would have found out everything and answered these very questions that color the administration.... As it is, we are left with another plausible view that has not been cleared up.... and there is good reason for us to think along these lines.... This administration has lied to us before, and the american people know it and are now demanding a higher standard...

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The same people that thought we shouldn't be concerned about adulterous, oral sex in the Oval Office seem awefully interested in this hunting accident. Have they forgotten all their talk about private lives?

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It's one thing when you have consenting adults having sex.....I don't think that this lawyer consented to getting shot.

[Dr. Shane]

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It's one thing when you have consenting adults

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The lawyer consented to go hunting with Chenney amd the risks associated with it. They were both consenting adults and this was done on private time. It does not involve public policy nor does it go to charchter. It was an accident.

I remember that President Clinton once hurt himself after playing golf with a big campaign donor. I think he fell down some stairs and hurt his leg, if I remember correctly. The far right-wing tried to make a big deal about it and wanted to know if Clinton had been drinking. Who cares? It was an accident. Sure it is a human interest story but that is it.

[Neil D]

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Shane said:

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It's one thing when you have consenting adults

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The lawyer consented to go hunting with Chenney amd the risks associated with it. They were both consenting adults and this was done on private time. It does not involve public policy nor does it go to charchter. It was an accident.

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Oh, so now the lawyers to blame....Come on, Shane, Cheney said that he pulled the trigger...Now you are making excuses. Unless the lawyer threaten Cheney with some lawsuit over Cheney's polices, I doubt very much that he consented to being shot...

And besides, there's no such thing as an "accident " when it comes to guns....especially not when you have gone thru gun courses..

[Dr. Shane]

I am not assigning blame. The lawyer himself sad that he knew the risks that go along with the sport. Accidents happen. He knew that and he conscented to go hunting. That doesn't mean it was his fault. It just means he was a conscenting adult and - it is his private life.

[bonnie]

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Neil D said:

Oh, so now the lawyers to blame....Come on, Shane, Cheney said that he pulled the trigger...Now you are making excuses. Unless the lawyer threaten Cheney with some lawsuit over Cheney's polices, I doubt very much that he consented to being shot...

And besides, there's no such thing as an "accident " when it comes to guns....especially not when you have gone thru gun courses..

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There are indeed accidents with guns after gun training. Only those that wish to see a conspiracy or deliberate attempt to harm someone believe otherwise. There are automoble accidents after drivers ed. There are farm accidents after training in farm equipment safety (offered here) boating accidents resulting in injury or death, after training. All resulting in more injuries and death than accidental shootings by hunters. What is it about gun safety training that is so precise and absolute that there will never be an accident once someone takes the course.

Not all of the above injuries or deaths result in charges filed either regardless of your financial status or worldly prominence.

And Yes, frequently, a percentage of blame is assigned by the courts.

Bonnie

[Neil D]

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Accidents happen. He knew that and he conscented to go hunting. That doesn't mean it was his fault. It just means he was a conscenting adult and - it is his private life.

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Not with Guns...Sorry, Accidents don't just happen with Guns. People getting shot with guns are the result of poor judgement or just plain foolishness.

This is evidence of another characteristic of this administration, and that is to put the best spin on it. In this case, "it was just an accident." There are some facts that are not lining up, and stories from others that are not dovetailing into the the main spin. It shows again, that this administration is being secretive, and now they can say with some certainity that they shoot from the hip and let the chip fall where they may.

There are lots of hunters, and not every one of the them have hunting accidents, and I know of NO gun shot that was ever JUST AN ACCIDENT. And while there was drinking involved, NO ONE TOOK A BREATH ANALIZER TEST to find out how high the alcohol content was in his blood. In fact, with Cheney's two recorded DUIs, and his history of drinking, the question comes up, why wait untill the next morning to interview Cheney???

And I don't know if you guys have done any bird hunting, but since when does a person, or an enterage[sp] or even part of an enterage [sp] come upon another person 'quietly' in grass that is knee high??

You guys can defend Cheney all you like....doesn't mean that I have to agree with you...It does mean that there are characteristics in dealing with the public that continue to show up ..... secretive? yep! Is there more to this spun story? I tend to think so....

But "Oh Well" , the media is concidering this a done story... And that republican vitim....well, doesn't he have a card that he can play after he gets out of the hospital....

[Dr. Shane]

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Accidents don't just happen with Guns.

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Really

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You guys can defend Cheney all you like....

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I don't see anyone defending Chenney. It was an accident and it was his fault. Accidents happen and someone is normally to blame for them. That doesn't mean they were not accidents.

[Neil D]

1. Watch that muzzle!

Keep it pointed in a safe direction at all times.

Hunters unloading firearms

2. Treat every firearm with the respect due a loaded gun.

It might be, even if you think it isn’t.

Hunter aiming at target

3. Be sure of the target and what is in front of it and beyond it.

Know the identifying features of the game you hunt. Make sure you have an adequate backstop—don’t shoot at a flat, hard surface or water.

Hunters with fingers outside trigger guards

4. Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot.

This is the best way to prevent an accidental discharge.

Removing obstruction from firearm

5. Check your barrel and ammunition.

Make sure the barrel and action are clear of obstructions, and carry only the proper ammunition for your firearm.

Casing gun for safe transport

6. Unload firearms when not in use.

Leave actions open; carry firearms in cases and unloaded to and from the shooting area.

Safe firearm carry

7. Point a firearm only at something you intend to shoot.

Avoid all horseplay with a gun.

Two hunters safely crossing fence

8. Don't run, jump, or climb with a loaded firearm.

Unload a firearm before you climb a fence or tree, or jump a ditch. Pull a firearm toward you by the butt, not the muzzle.

Firearm safe for storage

9. Store firearms and ammunition separately and safely.

Store each in secured locations beyond the reach of children and careless adults.

Never drink and shoot!

10. Avoid alcoholic beverages before and during shooting.

Also avoid mind- or behavior-altering medicines or drugs. [:"blue"] Well, here are the 10 commandments for all hunters...We can see which one's Cheney violated. [/]

6.3 Hunting Incidents

From a law enforcement perspective, a hunting incident occurs when a hunter directly or indirectly causes personal injury or death while using a firearm or bow. More broadly defined, a hunting incident is any unplanned, uncontrolled action that occurs while using a sporting arm. It can include near misses.

Being responsible in order to prevent hunting incidents is your first priority.

Remember

* The most common hunting incidents result from hunter judgment mistakes.

* Eighty percent of all firearm incidents occur within 10 yards of the muzzle.

Four Main Causes of Hunting Incidents

Hunter Judgment Mistakes, such as mistaking another person for game or not checking the foreground or background before firing

Safety Rule Violations, including pointing the muzzle in an unsafe direction and ignoring proper procedures for crossing a fence, obstacle, or difficult terrain

Lack of Control and Practice, which can lead to accidental discharges and stray shots

Mechanical Failure, such as an obstructed barrel or improper ammunition

[:"blue"] From the Michigan Hunting Course...Again, hunting INCIDENTS occure when someone violate some common sense. There are no hunting ACCIDENTS.[/]

6.10 Safe Zone-of-Fire

The area in which a hunter may shoot safely is referred to as a zone-of-fire. Before setting off in a group, hunters should agree on the zone-of-fire each person will cover. A zone-of-fire depends on many factors, including the hunter’s shooting ability, the game being hunted, the hunting environment, and the hunting strategy being used. A hunter’s zone-of-fire changes with every step. This is particularly true of groups hunting birds, rabbits, or other small game.

For safety purposes, it’s best to have no more than three hunters in a group. For new hunters, two is a safer number until they become familiar with maintaining a proper zone-of-fire.

Safe zones-of-fire when hunting ground birdsHunters should be spaced 25 to 40 yards apart and always in sight of one another. Each hunter has a zone-of-fire approximately 45 degrees in front, or from 10:30 to 1:30 on a clock face. (Some states require an adult to be immediately beside a youth hunter. In this case, the adult should be a supervisor only—not a hunter.)

[:"blue"] Now I am finding out that Cheney violated a "safe zone to fire" suggetion...And heaven forbid that Cheney violated other hunting rules [/]

[:"red"]Other hunting rules[/]

[Dr. Shane]

Of course he violated a safety rule. That is how accidents are caused. I once rear-ended someone with my car because I was following them too close. It was my fault but still an accident. It happened because I was violating a safety rule. That is normally how accidents happen.

[Neil D]

Not accident...INCIDENT

in·ci·dent

1. A definite and separate occurrence; an event. See Synonyms at occurrence.

2. A usually minor event or condition that is subordinate to another.

3. Something contingent on or related to something else.

4. An occurrence or event that interrupts normal procedure or precipitates a crisis: an international incident.

The gun safety course calls all violations "incidents", not accidents...There is a fine line and a fine difference...Anything less is spin and kowtowing to the good ol' boy's network.

[Dr. Shane]

According to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department it was a hunting accident not an incident. Accidents do happen here in Texas.

Click here to see the report

[Dr. Shane]

Follow the link above and click on page 3.

"This Department is fully sastisfied that this was no more than a hunting accident."

[Neil D]

And on the top of that same page, it says-

"On Saturday, Feburary 11, 2006 , there was an incident on the Armstrong Ranch...."

It may call it an incidental shooting, aka 'accident', but it names it properly when it calls it an "incident".

This is in keeping with the gun schools, where by they all say that there is NO ACCIDENT when it comes to gun, only incidents.

"Accidents" are nothing more than spin from the Republican machine...

Since you wanted to push this to this extent, Shane, I will let you have the last word....'cuz I am done with this...