Man and woman created as equals

[Buzzards]

44 minutes ago, CoAspen said:

EGW, wrong to buy a bicycle.

EGW, Long dresses, no legs in clothing like men.

EGW, etc, etc, etc

Demanded by God?

OK; you need to do a little research on both those statements

did you know there were two (2) types of dresses labeled "The Reformed Dress" for women -- Google it reformed dress of the 1800's

one Ellen spake against, the other she said they should adopt something similar 

Bicycles  - one she spake against, the other she was all for  -- Google it

[Tom Wetmore]

3 hours ago, Rossw said:

Well that puts EGW in a tight spot. She was either Divinely inspired or she wasn't. Her credibility becomes a problem if we aren't sure what is inspired and what isn't thus proving true her many skeptics. We can't have our cake and eat it too with the belief her messages are less inspired by God.

EGW isn't put in a tight spot. She was very clear that we should not take her word for it, but to study Scritpure ourselves. She never claimed her words as on a par with Scripture. That was the clear meaning of referring to what she wrote as a lesser light.  Your post also seems to  reflect a view of inspiration that is out of harmony with what she says about it and what Scripture shows.  The writer was inspired.   The words were not dictated by God.  For some the thoughts were inspired and put in their own words.  In other instances EGW as the writer was inspired to seek the answer through study and prayer, and study would include the use of  available resources and the assistance of  others.  It is clear that many of her writings reflect the resources found in her library, all of which were the current scholarship and understanding of her time.  Yes, there were specific things that were revelaled to her in vision.  But not everything.  

She certainly did not claim infallibility and we certainly should not impose it on her writings.  And she was not a Greek or Hebrew scholar. So when it comes to achieving a better understanding of the meaning of the language that Scripture was originally written in, we are being more faithful to Scripture than if we insist on sticking to the imperfect knowledge of translators that resulted in flawed translations, such as the example Kevin has given of the inn in Luke.  It wasn't that EGW's inspiration was false.  It simply was not specific on that particular detail.  Just as the Bible writers who wrote of the sun standing still, or that reflected an ancient understanding of an earth that was flat. The writers were inspired to write, but did so with the understanding of their time. 

[Tom Wetmore]

Administrative Note: 

I have just noticed that Gregory has started a separate topic on inspiration.  Continue the discussion of inspiration there.

Let's try to get this back on track of the original topic.

[CoAspen]

What!!! Goggle to understand EGW! Context important? Say it ain't so, we simply can not do that.......according to a few!

(no, I don't need to research, it was posted to see if we got an answer such as yours)

Glad to see that Green C has changed his mind and accepted outside sources and context!!! He liked your post.

Okay , back to equality of women and their importance to all facets of life, thanks be to God! Because of my mother I never grew up disrespecting women for any reason. I have always seen them as equal. I have worked with and for, many women in my life and I can guarantee the list of 10 does not apply to any of them. The proof is in the pudding.

[Kevin H]

Green do you realize what you are saying? You are saying that the Bible is wrong and now you are attacking the word of God.

I was using the word as an illustration but you have turned it from my illustration to a horrible argument.

The Bible has the word "pandocheion" which means "Inn" the scholars and translators for centuries have known that the word "pandocheion" means Inn. when Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan he had the Samaritan take the wounded man to the "pandocheion" Luke used the word "Kataluma" in Luke 2. Bible translators have wondered for centuries about what in the world a "Kataluma" was. They knew it was someplace to stay and they knew that Mary and Joseph were traveling. They said that even thought it is not the work for "Inn" which is "pandocheion" they could not think of any other word that it could be. They reasoned that maybe someday in the future we would discover that it might be another word for "Inn" but were honestly letting us know that they were only guessing.

Mrs. White wrote in a prophetic framework. She said that she was making Biblical applications to our day. She often copied others for a running narrative between one section that she thought was really important and another. She said that her writings were NOT to be an authority on history. She once wrote about the  Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre. She originally wrote that it started when a certain bell rang. It was something she read and copied. It turned out that there was scholarly debate as to which bell it was that rang. Seventh-day Adventists did not have to enter the debate because Sister White told us through inspiration which bell it was. Mrs. White told us that she was wrong. She said that her visions would not have told her just which bell it was. She told us that it was misuse of her writings to have them define which bell it was and she said that she is not to be considered a historian and that with the debate over the bell that they needed to pay attention to the scholarly debate. In later printings of the story she removed the specific bell and only said that a bells ringing signaled the start.

In 1888 there was a new view of the daily suggested. Seventh-day Adventists knew that this new view was wrong because Mrs. White in vision confirmed the old interpretation. Mrs. White replied that her writings are not to be used to answer questions like "What is the meaning of the daily" that she received no light on these types of questions. That her job was to make Biblical applications to our day, and how to do things such as evangelizing cities. That the study into questions of the type like "What is the meaning of the daily" is our job to study out. That the Holy Spirit will help us to study and to grow. When it comes to the meaning of the daily Mrs. White's view was that it could be one or the other or neither and that we have yet to discover, but that we are to discover through study and not turn to her words to answer the question.  Questions such as what is the meaning of the daily are questions of exegesis. She tells us that exegesis is OUR job NOT hers.

When she was writing translators still did not know what a "Kataluma" was. God would have confused people if he was to tell her what it was. So she took the popular understanding and drew important lessons for us from it.  Your defense of the idea of Inn because she mentioned the inn is the same type of argument as people were doing when they insisted that it was the specific bell that she mentioned that rang and the same type of argument as to using her writings to support one view of the daily. Do you realize that your zeal for this post makes Mrs. White and Luke liars? Mrs. White said "Don't use my writings to answer questions of history or exegesis" and you are saying "Yes you should use her writings to answer questions of exegesis and history." And Luke used the word "Kataluma" and you are saying that Luke was wring that it was a "pandocheion" and not a "Kataluma". The Bible contrasts two different responses to Jesus coming to earth. Mary got the message and welcomed it. She went to visit her relatives and they welcomed it. Joseph got the message and wanted to divorce her secretly, they went to visit Joseph's family and they did not have room for him. Joseph needed a dream and since the wisemen came to Bethlehem and went to a house it appears that Joseph's family finally accepted Jesus but that it also needed the supernatural news probably the message from the shepherds. But you are rejecting the Biblical message wanting to defend what the Bible translators said was just a guess that might be right or might be wrong.

[Green Cochoa]

6 hours ago, Buzzards said:

Bicycles  - one she spake against, the other she was all for  -- Google it

Maybe CoAspen wants to buy a $2,700 bicycle just for showing off in the street and thinks that Ellen White should have endorsed such extravagance.

Most criticisms like this have come from those who read one statement and fail to take in the context, nor to look for other balancing statements on the same subject.  Anyone who thoughtfully reads a book like The Desire of Ages or The Great Controversy, or even Christ's Object Lessons cannot fail to hear the voice of the Holy spirit speaking through them.

12 minutes ago, Kevin H said:

Green do you realize what you are saying? You are saying that the Bible is wrong and now you are attacking the word of God.

I was using the word as an illustration but you have turned it from my illustration to a horrible argument.

The Bible has the word "pandocheion" which means "Inn" the scholars and translators for centuries have known that the word "pandocheion" means Inn. when Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan he had the Samaritan take the wounded man to the "pandocheion" Luke used the word "Kataluma" in Luke 2. Bible translators have wondered for centuries about what in the world a "Kataluma" was. They knew it was someplace to stay and they knew that Mary and Joseph were traveling. They said that even thought it is not the work for "Inn" which is "pandocheion" they could not think of any other word that it could be. They reasoned that maybe someday in the future we would discover that it might be another word for "Inn" but were honestly letting us know that they were only guessing.

Mrs. White wrote in a prophetic framework. She said that she was making Biblical applications to our day. She often copied others for a running narrative between one section that she thought was really important and another. She said that her writings were NOT to be an authority on history. She once wrote about the  Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre. She originally wrote that it started when a certain bell rang. It was something she read and copied. It turned out that there was scholarly debate as to which bell it was that rang. Seventh-day Adventists did not have to enter the debate because Sister White told us through inspiration which bell it was. Mrs. White told us that she was wrong. She said that her visions would not have told her just which bell it was. She told us that it was misuse of her writings to have them define which bell it was and she said that she is not to be considered a historian and that with the debate over the bell that they needed to pay attention to the scholarly debate. In later printings of the story she removed the specific bell and only said that a bells ringing signaled the start.

In 1888 there was a new view of the daily suggested. Seventh-day Adventists knew that this new view was wrong because Mrs. White in vision confirmed the old interpretation. Mrs. White replied that her writings are not to be used to answer questions like "What is the meaning of the daily" that she received no light on these types of questions. That her job was to make Biblical applications to our day, and how to do things such as evangelizing cities. That the study into questions of the type like "What is the meaning of the daily" is our job to study out. That the Holy Spirit will help us to study and to grow. When it comes to the meaning of the daily Mrs. White's view was that it could be one or the other or neither and that we have yet to discover, but that we are to discover through study and not turn to her words to answer the question.  Questions such as what is the meaning of the daily are questions of exegesis. She tells us that exegesis is OUR job NOT hers.

When she was writing translators still did not know what a "Kataluma" was. God would have confused people if he was to tell her what it was. So she took the popular understanding and drew important lessons for us from it.  Your defense of the idea of Inn because she mentioned the inn is the same type of argument as people were doing when they insisted that it was the specific bell that she mentioned that rang and the same type of argument as to using her writings to support one view of the daily. Do you realize that your zeal for this post makes Mrs. White and Luke liars? Mrs. White said "Don't use my writings to answer questions of history or exegesis" and you are saying "Yes you should use her writings to answer questions of exegesis and history." And Luke used the word "Kataluma" and you are saying that Luke was wring that it was a "pandocheion" and not a "Kataluma". The Bible contrasts two different responses to Jesus coming to earth. Mary got the message and welcomed it. She went to visit her relatives and they welcomed it. Joseph got the message and wanted to divorce her secretly, they went to visit Joseph's family and they did not have room for him. Joseph needed a dream and since the wisemen came to Bethlehem and went to a house it appears that Joseph's family finally accepted Jesus but that it also needed the supernatural news probably the message from the shepherds. But you are rejecting the Biblical message wanting to defend what the Bible translators said was just a guess that might be right or might be wrong.

I will be the last one to call the Bible or Mrs. White a liar.  You are putting your trust in the scholars over a thus saith the Lord.  Why is that?  To me, it's simple: I don't need to enter this debate.  I do notice that you have provided no quotes from Mrs. White, only vague references to what she has supposedly said.  Are you averse to quoting her?  Do you quote other sources but not Ellen White?

Now, you're a moderator here--maybe you can transfer these posts to the "inspiration" section where Tom wants them.

[Kevin H]

Green we have two "Thus saith the Lord" We have Luke using the word "Kataluma" and you say I don't quote Mrs. White while I do quote her often and in my above post I quoted what she said about being used as an authority of history and questions of exegesis. How much more "Thus saith the Lord" do you want?

Your Bible and my Bible has been translated from the Greek. The Bible translators until with in the past less than 50 years said that they did not know how to translate the word "Kataluma" and that their choice of the word "Inn" was only a guess. Now they say that they have finally learned how to translate the word and you are saying that they are wrong that their guess was right.

[Tom Wetmore]

On July 22, 2016 at 11:37 PM, Tom Wetmore said:

Administrative Note: 

I have just noticed that Gregory has started a separate topic on inspiration.  Continue the discussion of inspiration there.

Let's try to get this back on track of the original topic.

This is why this topic is locked.  It was locked when it was clear that several here really didn't pay attention to the above.  Now those who wish to continue the sidetrack can do so in the other topic.  Also when I get time I may try to move the posts from her that are off topic to the other thread.  

Because this subforum is for just for WO and women in ministry information and discussion, getting sidetracked into other topics is to be avoided.