What is work?

[cricket]

What is work?

Apparently Ellen White knew the difference between what work is and what work is not.

Is it work to feed a pet? Is it work to feed the farm animals?

Is it work to shave your face? Is it work to cut your hair? Is it work to mow the lawn?

Is it work to empty the commode? Is it work to flush the toilet? Is it work to change the baby's diaper?

Is it work to build a fire? Is it work to turn on the stove? Is it work to press a few buttons on the microwave?

Is it work to read the Bible? Is it work to record yourself reading the Bible?

Is it work to write a letter to a good friend and then walk to the post office to mail it? Is it work to e-mail the same friend?

Is it work to walk to church? Is it work to drive there?

Is it work to walk to the neighbor's for supper? Is it work to clear an extra space on your table to have them over for supper?

Is it work to wave to the neighbor who's mowing his lawn? Is it work to close the windows so you won't have to hear him?

Which work is work? Which is a sin to do on the Sabbath?

Is it work to reprimand another about his keeping of the Sabbath if you reprimand him on the Sabbath day?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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Cricket said:

What is work?

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[:"red"] "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot

From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,

And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable,

And honor it, desisting from your own ways,

From seeking your own pleasure

And speaking your own word,

Then you will take delight in the LORD,

And I will make you ride on the heights of the earth;

And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father,

For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

[/] Isaiah 58:13,14 NASB

[:"red"] "Keep the Sabbath day holy. Don't pursue your own interests on that day, but enjoy the Sabbath and speak of it with delight as the LORD's holy day. Honor the LORD in everything you do, and don't follow your own desires or talk idly. If you do this, the LORD will be your delight. I will give you great honor and give you your full share of the inheritance I promised to Jacob, your ancestor. I, the LORD, have spoken!"

" [/] Isaiah 58:13,14 NLT

[:"red"] "If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." [/] Isaiah 58:13,14

KJV

I don't see anything in here about not working on the Sabbath.

Keep looking up!!

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[bevin]

Look in the original commandment...

/Bevin

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Cricket,

All of God's commandments are the expression of Agape , divine love not human. From birth we have a hard time wanting to do them let alone doing them. Nevertheless, God does not alter them to please our desires. The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

It is not pleasing to us to have to do things that we don't want and God tells us not to do any work nor to do those things which please us. I have a hard time with that sometimes, there are things that I want to do but I choose not to do them and choose to do those things that please God because I respect and love Him.

I look at the Sabbath as a day where I can practice living as Christ without any distractions. The other six days we are commanded to work, so I can live like Christ in character but I am bound by my earthly committments. I can't just put my work aside and go visit the sick or prisoners etc...

But when Sabbath comes I am happy because I can put everything aside and live for others 100%. Servile work and doing my pleasure I put aside on Sabbath. Christ lived not for Himself in anything but His entire life was lived for others. This is what I'd like to do but in this world I have to work 6 days.

Summing up, God's methods are designed to cut at our selfishness and I find the Sabbath is a day that allows for this to happen. That's one of the reasons the world doesn't want the Sabbath, it cuts into their time and they are not willing to let that go and have this Man rule over them.

Take the Sabbath as a day of doing good for others and it may be hard at first but, watch how the Lord works in your life.

[Gerr]

Here is a definition from a physics textbook.

WORK = FORCE x DISTANCE

You can exert tremendous force expending thousands of calories, but if there is no movement, one has not done any work.

For a definition of no-no work vis-a-vis the Sabbath commandment, one has to look at how Jesus kept it and then look at the 4th.

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

"Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?" Luke 14:5

Emergencies that cannot be foreseen. If I could forsee the need for something on the Sabbth it (like running out of toilet paper) then I could prepare for it on preperation day. If it is something that can wait (like washing my clothing) then it isn't an emergency.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Shane,

Quote:

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Emergencies that cannot be foreseen. If I could forsee the need for something on the Sabbth it

(like running out of toilet paper)

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That's one of those things that you do just once, hopefully

Shane, I agree there are emergencies, like you car breaking down or the power goes out and you have to keep your family warm in the winter so you got to buy or chop wood. Of course, running out of gas is problem, but come on. If God were a mean angry god, punishing us for being forgetful, we'd get it done in time. But we have a greater motivation than fear, love.

The Sabbath is about expressing love to God and to others. Is it a joy for you to serve and worship God? If so, then we ought to get ready and have free time with God and His children. Make sense?

Norman

[cricket]

Quote:

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Take the Sabbath as a day of doing good for others and it may be hard at first but, watch how the Lord works in your life.

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Aha! This is the sum of my problem. You see, it is my life's work to do good for others. The Sabbath is no different for me. If you knew me personally, you would see that this is so.

What then, if it is my life's work to do good for others, am I to consider work on the Sabbath?

People remind me (although "remind" is too soft a term) to do good things for myself. If I don't remember to take time for myself, I never will.

Enter the Sabbath. It is to be a delight, but for whom? Here, in this very thread, I am told not to seek my own pleasure. And yet, my own pleasure is to seek to do good for others!

If I delight in doing my "work" for others, am I breaking the Sabbath?

The words, "it may be hard at first" ring deaf to my ears. I must force myself to do good for me.

Simply sitting still to read the Bible is investing in my own pleasure, is it not? And so, must I reason that it is a sin for me to read the Bible on the Sabbath?

[Dr. Shane]

I have to translate Isaiah 58:13,14 in light of other Scripture that speaks about Sabbath observance. It is too vague for me to understand it by itself.

[John317]

I think there's a good reason that God did not give us a comprehensive list of do's and don'ts regarding the Sabbath. Instead God gives us a description of the purpose of the Sabbath and he tells us that we are not to work on it.

Then about 600 years after that God added some more information about it through his prophet, Isaiah. (Isaiah 58.)

600 years afterwards God himself came and showed us by His personal example what He had been saying about Sabbath keeping.

About two thousand years later, because people were still not studying their Bibles as they should, God added even more instruction-- actually a few thousand pages-- about the Sabbath through His prophet, Ellen White. (See pages 2305 to 2331 of Volume 3 of the Index to the Writings of Ellen White.)

Now a lot of people aren't studying either the Bible or the writings of Ellen White. Instead, they simply want a detailed list of things that can and can't be done, as if God is pleased with a mechanical sort of Sabbath keeping.

God hasn't given a list of things we can or can't do on the Sabbath. In the same way, I haven't given my kids a list of things they must do in order to show that they love me. God has given us a mind and reasoning power and all the information we need in order to keep the Sabbath in the way He wants us to.

I think each person who studies and thinks about these things should be persuaded in his/her mind. I don't think God is happy with a Sabbath keeping that results from a feeling of being compelled to do or not do certain things. That is not even really keeping the Sabbath in the true sense of the word, at least for an adult, or mature, Christian. God wants us to worship Him in the freedom of grown-up Christians because He really seeks mature worship that is freely and intelligently given. Jim

[Nicodema]

"The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath." - Jesus

Cricket, in your case, doing good for yourself isn't taking your own pleasure. It is recharging the batteries of that tireless doer-of-good-for-others so it can keep functioning the rest of the week, churning out all those blessings she dispenses. It is nothing but good stewardship, and that is God's pleasure. Now "shuddup"[:"red"]*[/] and go spend time with God, alone, refreshing YOUR soul and spirit, on Sabbath. That's an order!

([:"red"]*[/] - meant in friendly teasing tone, not in a mean way)

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Cricket,

You said,

Quote:

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Enter the Sabbath. It is to be a delight, but for whom? Here, in this very thread, I am told not to seek my own pleasure.

And yet, my own pleasure is to seek to do good for others!

---

Then you are doing well my friend. Not seeking to do your own pleasure means not doing those things that we want to do that are of a self gratifying nature.

E.g. you have a choice of going to visit some folks in prison or at a hospital or you can stay at home and sleep because you feel lazy. Doing your own pleasure would be to stay at home to sleep. That is what we are told not to do.

Jesus, before His ministry worked with Joseph and put aside he daily work for the Sabbath. When He entered His ministry He put work aside altogether for 3 1/2 years and focused on preaching the Gospel of the kingdom of God and doing God's will by healing people on the Sabbath and the 6 other days of the week. As Christians we don't live to ourselves and we have to avoid the appearance of evil lest we become a stumbling stone for others. There are things that I don't do because others may not understand it. But what's that compared to what Jesus did in taking humanity forever?

the most important thing about the Sabbath I think we need to avoid is to start making up a list of does and don'ts, I'm sure you agree with that. Having said that I think there are things that we shouldn't do but let the Holy Spirit guide us and seek counsel if we're not sure.

It's late and I'm rambling,

God bless,

Norman

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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bevin said:

Look in the original commandment...

/Bevin

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I did. And while this perhaps is a matter of personal perception, I still see it as referring to pursueing one's own interests as opposed to using one's energy to benefit others, which very definately could include the necessity of involvement with work for the sake of others.

[:"red"] "At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.

But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."

But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,

how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?

"Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

"But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

"But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.

"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." [/] Matthew 12:1-8 NASB

[:"red"] "And he said to them, `What man shall be of you, who shall have one sheep, and if this may fall on the sabbaths into a ditch, will not lay hold on it and raise [it]?

How much better, therefore, is a man than a sheep? -- so that it is lawful on the sabbaths to do good.'

" [/] Matt 12:11,12 YLT

Keep the faith!

[Morning Glory]

Dear Cricket,

I have read with interest this thread. I applaud you for doing good for others, that is the highest employment there is!!

I am not sure who taught me this in regard to Sabbath keeping, but the idea is this: Whatever you do during the normal work week is what should be laid aside on the Sabbath as that is considered "common" by God. The Sabbath is a day to spend time with God in a different way than the other 6 days, the specifics of that varying for different folks but the general principals intact for all as outlined in the 4th commandment.

I think that says it all in a nutshell.

I was also taught that after 400 years of slavery, the Israelites no longer had any concept of how to keep the Sabbath, so it was spelled out in detail for them. Seems like they didn't get it even at that, but I digress.

May we all discover our special time with God each Sabbath, to hold it dear and sacred in our continued growth as Children of the Most High.

[Tom Wetmore]

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Shane said:

I have to translate Isaiah 58:13,14 in light of other Scripture that speaks about Sabbath observance. It is too vague for me to understand it by itself.

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Shane,

Most of my life I was also a bit puzzled by this seemingly self-contradictory text of "no pleasure" vs. "Sabbath delight". I finally decided to study the context of this passage and that has made a huge difference in how I have looked at Sabbath ever since. Here is something that I have posted a number of times before when this subject has come up:

Quote:

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Sabbath – Isaiah 58:13

It seems to me that one of the things that Jesus was trying to teach us about the Sabbath was how we are to worship God. For me a very good place to look for the answer to that is in the familiar passage from Isaiah 58.

I find it interesting that Isaiah 58:13 is at the end of a discourse on fasting in the context of Israel seeking God and their efforts to worship Him. Notice the introduction in verses 1-2. Isaiah is instructed to point out the sins of the people and goes on to describe their diligent efforts in seeking God. They seem to be doing the worshipful things of seeking after God and fasting with all humility. But their efforts to impress God with their piety are not the worship and fasting that God desires. Notice in verses 6-12 which God introduces with the question, "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen..." freeing the oppressed and burdened, righting injustice, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, providing shelter for the homeless. Notice God's response to this form of worship. The passage then concludes with a distinctly parallel message about the Sabbath.

As we have all struggled over the "seeking your own pleasure" phrase it is useful to pay particular attention to how that phrase is used in the earlier discourse on fasting in verses 3-4. The phrase "seeking your own pleasure" is not the best translation as its contemporary meaning is quite different than in the time of King James. A better translation in more contemporary expression is perhaps "doing as you please" or quite simply, being selfish or doing something for selfish reasons. In that context the Lord specifically describes that "doing as you please" means exploiting ones workers, quarreling and fighting, etc. Also notice the contrasting acceptable "fasting" and worship that is then described. Now use that to understand what seems to be, in context, almost an aside reference to Sabbath keeping. "Doing as you please" has far less to do with doing what we enjoy, having fun and seeking pleasurable activities on the Sabbath, but is following our sinful desires to the detriment of our fellow humans or ignoring their needs caused by the conditions of this sinful world. Worry over whether to swim, throw a Frisbee with the kids or doing enjoyable things on the Sabbath seems to miss the point entirely.

I am impressed that Jesus kept the Sabbath by reaching out to people by addressing their needs in a real and practical sense. After all, this was His message to the children of Israel through the prophet Isaiah.

Our worship and praise to God which is most pleasing to Him is ministering to the needs of our fellow humans.

It seems that faithfully attending Church, singing, praying and all the forms of modern "fasting" we practice on Sabbath to honor and worship God today really have little to do with true Sabbath keeping that is really pleasing to God. (Indeed, they may rather help us ignore and avoid doing real good by taking up our Sabbath hours and keeping us away from those who have real needs.) Rather we ought to hit the streets and help those in need and leave the world a better place because the followers of Christ reached out and touched the unclean and brought Sabbath healing and help to our neighbors. (See Luke 10:29-37) True worship that is acceptable to God is all about how we relate to our fellow humans. (If you are going swimming on the Sabbath, how about taking a bunch of inner city kids with you and go to the beach?) My vote is for the good folks who understand Jesus' command to love God by loving people and that showing God's love to people by doing good to them on the Sabbath is most excellent Sabbath worship!

It has absolutely nothing to do with recreational activity or doing something you enjoy or whether the activity involves physical activity, commonly viewed as working. (In today's culture we "work out" at the gym. As a lawyer my "work” requires little physical labor and is mostly mental exertion. For me to stop all manner of "work" on the Sabbath would be to take a mental break and stop thinking for 24 hours. I prefer to change what I am thinking about -- to start thinking about others on the Sabbath. And actually, doing something physical is a Sabbath "rest" for me!) Otherwise enjoying worshiping in Church, eating a good meal, enjoying a nature walk all would be breaking the Sabbath, because I find pleasure and satisfaction in doing all of them. Understanding the phrase wrongly also renders verse 13 self-contradicting by first saying don't do anything pleasurable and then instructing us to call the Sabbath a delight. By understanding the context it really makes much more sense. So go out and enjoy yourself on Sabbath! And nothing brings greater joy and satisfaction than to help someone by easing their burdens, whatever they may be, even if you have to work hard to help someone in need . Don't be selfish - share a Sabbath day's blessing with somebody. No emergency is necessary.

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Tom

[Bravus]

That's great, Tom - thanks for sharing it. I think the idea Morning Glory expressed, about not doing what is your 'work' that you do during the week, is important too: the Sabbath is a rest from that, and a chance to spend time with God and family. I know that as a teacher I *adore* the Sabbath because for 24 hours I don't have to feel guilty about just relaxing, even if there's a stack of marking waiting for me and I still need to plan lessons for the coming week. It's such a blessing, in the context of a job that is potentially non-stop, to have a time when stopping is required!

Couple more things: introversion and extroversion plays in here. Introverts recharge, rest and commune alone (with God) or just with the family, so having that kind of Sabbath is important. Extroverts recharge in groups and communities. When you have an introvert married to an extrovert, as we do in our family, finding ways to meet both needs is important... and comes back to that unselfishness Tom's post talks about.

The 'pleasure' thing is interesting, because we focus on that word, but the phrase is 'seeking your own pleasure', and as has been noted above, there is the implicit phrase '(at others' expense)' there. God created us for joy, and the Sabbath should be a joy, not a burden. It's a laying down of burdens (and specifically of the 'in the sweat of your brow shall you eat bread' curse) for the day.

[Jeannieb43]

Tom, and Bravus, thank you for your clear explanation of the Sabbath commands as they relate to us in this generation. The definitions of "work" and of "thine own pleasure" need to be taken in the context of what it is that we do daily in the temporal world, as our vocation, or even as our avocation. Both of your comments really resonate with me.

--I just got to wondering, though.... If a housewife's daily tasks imclude preparing meals and washing dishes -- wouldn't it be a pleasant "rest" for her to be able to enjoy a meal in a quiet restaurant as part of her Sabbath observance?

Just thinking out loud.

I know that in some parts of the U.S. and other countries, going out to eat in a restaurant on the Sabbath is not an approved activity. In some homes I know, the Sabbath lunch dishes are not washed until after sundown. And baths are not taken during the 24 Sabbath hours.

By raising this issue here, I do not expect an answer!! In other words, I feel these issues are ones for the worshiper him/herself to decide, in prayer and with his Bible open. I don't think it's our business -- any of us -- to make these decisions for another person. I just bring this up to point up differences in culture, in mores, among our Adventist family. I have no desire to condemn anyone for doing any of these things on the Sabbath.

In fact, it's the memory of my childhood (in which the rules were more important than the relationships), which causes me to bring this up. I've moved past that point in my Christian experience now. There is a time and place for everything, IMHO.

[Dr. Shane]

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I know that in some parts of the U.S. and other countries, going out to eat in a restaurant on the Sabbath is not an approved activity.

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Does this means God has different standards for man in different cultures? Or that sinful man has different standards for man in different cultures?

[Bravus]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Does this means God has different standards for man in different cultures? Or that sinful man has different standards for man in different cultures?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Not only in different cultures (God's standards, I mean), for different individuals too. The point raised above is that the Sabbath is a rest from *your* work. Different work, different rest.

[Gerr]

My wife & I used to attend a church where many of the members would go to the restaurant after church. We went for a while, but I never felt right going, so we don't anymore.

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

Yes, I believe God does hold some to higher standards than He holds others. Pastors which are public examples of faith are held to a higher standard. Doctors which are public examples of health are also held to higher standards of health reform.

I believe culture impacts what is right and wrong in somethings. Dress is perhaps the best example. God's standard of dress in one culture is not the same the world around.

Now Sabbath-keeping gets a little harder to justify. If it is sin to go out to eat in Mexico, I think it is a sin in Kenya too. If it isn't a sin in Canada, then it probbally isn't a sin in Japan either.