Worse Than Cloning?

[Dr. Shane]

I couldn't believe it when I saw it but man not only thinks he can do the work of God... he now thinks he can do a bee's work too.

Imitation Sugar-Free Honey

[Gregory Matthews]

Forgive teh spelling in the following comment. Yes, and they sell guacomole that does not have any avocodo in it.

[LifeHiscost]

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Gregory Matthews said:

Forgive teh spelling in the following comment. Yes, and they sell guacomole that does not have any avocodo in it.

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As long as it is known that it is just imitation, there doesn't seem to be a moral imperative at stake.

[:"red"] "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. " [/] 1 Corinthians 11:1

Keep the faith!

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "I couldn't believe it when I saw it but man not only thinks he can do the work of God... he now thinks he can do a bee's work too."

There are a number of companies that make a sugar free honey. I could not tell from the picture in Shane's post who made the product he referenced. Anyway, the following is a statement regarding one such product:

"Nature's Hollow sugar free diet Taste Like Honey, is made with a great tasting healthful natural sweetener called Xylitol. Xylitol is a 5-carbon sugar alcohol that is ideal for diabetics and those concerned about sugar intake. Unlike sugar, Xylitol has a very low glycemic index, has fewer calories, and is good for your teeth. Enjoy this sugar free honey product on muffins, oatmeal, yogurt, or use it to sweeten your favorite beverage."

You will note that it is produced for diabetics, who cannot eat the real honey made by the insect commonly known as a bee.

I wonder, would Shane want diabetics to go without such a product?

If Shane and his family are not diabetic, there is probably no reason for he and his family to purchase such a product, unless he had a health problem that required him to reduce calories.

The product that I referenced contains a natural honey flavor. Whether or not the product that Shane cited contained anything naturel related to real honey is somethign that I do not know.

Anyway, we now know that Shane may (?) disagree with the production of food products for diabetics? At least he disagrees with this one.

[Gregory Matthews]

By the wayl, Xylitol, Manitol, Sorbitol, and other products are commonly known as sugar alcohols. They are uesed as non-caloric sweeteners in food products designed for diabetics, and others who need to reduce caloric content.

<img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/coolhello.gif" alt="" />

I trust that no one will come back to me and ask if one can get drunk on eating [or if one can drink milk at the same time one eats a food containing such <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />] such due to the fact that they are an alconol.

There are some alcohols where getting drunk is not a problem. If you drink a quart of the alcohol methonol, it is unlikely that you will get drunk. You will simply die. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> But, you will not get drunk.

Alcohols come in many variations. The gelled substance that people ignite to keep food warm at banquets is an alcohol, but no one drinks it. It is naturally a gel.

[Dr. Shane]

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I wonder, would Shane...

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This thread is not about Shane.

[Dr. Shane]

I was kind of wondering what Brother Neil thought about this new kind of honey.

[Neil D]

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Shane said:

I was kind of wondering what Brother Neil thought about this new kind of honey.

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I am in the midst of many things [aka too many "brands in the fire", and at this time, I reserve comment....

[Bravus]

Hehe - the useful concept of the 'real fake' and the 'fake fake' from Umberto Eco might be relevant here...

Yeah, tagging on from Gregory, there are whole families of alcohols: the name just means any organic compound that has one or more -OH groups attached to it somewhere. Only one of them causes intoxication... and all the other members of the family are real embarrassed by their outlaw cousin, ethanol, and wish people would stop branding them guilty by association. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The fake honey just seems more liks a taste issue than a moral one to me (and Shane never claimed it was, but painted it with strong language) - if you don't like it, don't eat it! SDAs don't seem to have too much trouble with fake meat...

[Ron Lambert]

One in five people are sensitive to sweeteners such as Xylitol, Manitol, and Sorbitol--they will cause gastric distress, bloating, diarhhea. I saw some chewing gum on sale sweetened with these sweeteners, billed as good for your teeth, and tried some, and I quickly found I was one of the one in five. The only artificial sweetener that really tastes good and has nothing objectionable about it, is sucralose--marketed under the trade name, Splenda. Of course, the makers claim it is made from sugar, and would dispute calling it artificial.

Personally, I also like Stevia, or stevioside, which is a natural low-calorie sweetener derived from a South American plant called Stevia rebaudiana. The FDA has approved its use as a food supplement, but not as a sweetener, allegedly because no one has done the extensive trials necessary to establish its safety as a sweetener (but more likely because Monsanto, owner of Aspartame, influenced the FDA to be picky and withhold approval of this potential inexpensive rival, even though Stevia has been used as a common low-calorie sweetener in soda in Japan for almost 20 years, has been used for many years throughout South America as a sweetener, and is regarded as a sweetener by virtually everyone who has tried it.) Despite the games being played with Stevia by the FDA, it is available in any health food store. The refined white powder form is preferable. It is very concentrated, so far less amount is required than sugar to provide equivalant sweetening.

I find that Stevia mixed with Splenda complement each other, and provide an ideal-tasting sweetener even better in quality than sugar, better than either one by itself.

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "This thread is not about Shane."

Shane, when you raise an issue, it is appropriate for you to tell us what you think on as aspect of that issue.

[Dr. Shane]

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Basic forum rules.

Be nice, not everyone is going to agree with you.

Deal with issues not the posters.

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[emphasis added]

Just in case we have forgotten the rules here.

[Dr. Shane]

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The fake honey just seems more liks a taste issue than a moral one to me (and Shane never claimed it was, but painted it with strong language)

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Please tell me that you could see my tounge-in-cheek humor. Does anyone really believe fake honey is worse than [human] cloning?

When I saw it I thought of Brother Neil - him being a bee-keeper. So I thought it would make a light-hearted thread.

[Amelia]

*tacking on

Xylitol is a wood sugar. Extracted mostly from Birch trees.

I find Xylitol to be so supersweet that it's almost not sweet. To me the sweetness doesn't last, especially in gum and has a nasty aftertaste.

[Bravus]

Yep, I did get the joke, Shane... and apologise if it sounded like I didn't and was 'having a go at you' as we say in Australia. The work of the bee, though, is a subtle, secret and sacred thing. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[cricket]

Oh! It was a third "wolf" cry!

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "Does anyone really believe fake honey is worse than [human] cloning?"

Shane, I believed that was you position. I responded to you in good faith. I asked a serious question in response to what I thought was a serious position that you had posted.

Your response to me, and telling us that you essentially cannot imagine anyone taking you seriously supports my perception of you that you often post to simply stir things up. It tells me that in the future I should take you less seriously than I have taken you in the past.

O. K. I am a fool for taking your post at face value. In the future I will know better--maybe?

NOTE: No, I did not read you as saying it was a moral issue, just that it was worse (whatever that meant) than human cloning.

[Neil D]

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Please tell me that you could see my tounge-in-cheek humor. Does anyone really believe fake honey is worse than [human] cloning?

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To let you know how I saw this....

Based upon our history, I took this as an effort to smooth things between us. But being that you have done this before, and reverted back to posting of adversarial viewpoints that, IMO, were contrary to Adventist history and position [i know, you don't agree, but that is how I see it], I reserved the right to revisit this and see how this thread played out.

As for the "tic", I saw the ludicris contrast, but while I found it amusing, I was apprehensive for other reasons and felt somewhat .... [for lack of a word] baited.

Yes, man made honey is sweet, but, like Amelia has said, the after taste is awful. And yes, I appreciated the attempt at creatively smearing the cloning industry....

But honestly, I don't see it as replacing good ol' fashioned sweet [with no after taste] God given, nectar of the Gods honey...

[Dr. Shane]

Well, I don't want to say I am without a moral compass but [looking both ways] I haven't formed an opinion on human cloning and am not sure I will.

Now allow me to stray from the topic a little.

I think we can all have a lot more fun together and roll with the punches when we don't take our disagreements personally. A big part of that is not attaching issues to other members. I do that by focusing on a topic and not another member.

I am pro-life but tomorrow I could change my mind. So someone that disagrees with me ought not say, Shane you are wrong. It would be better for them to say, the pro-life position is wrong or, the pro-life crowd is wrong. That way the issue is the pro-life position and not "Shane". After all, Shane, or Neil, or David, or Amelia may change their minds and are not the topic of the discussion.

If the threads are still available, one could go back through the archives and see where I have changed my mind on such things as jewelry, rebuke and chastisment, attending theaters, dancing and vegetarianism. Each of us grows spiritually and life is a process of continual change.

My best friend, outside of my wife, is much different than me. He is much more liberal in politics and much more conservative religiously. Yet we visit on the phone 3 or 4 times a week. I named my son after him and love him very dearly. We don't have to agree on every issue to be good friends and brothers in Christ.