Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 21, 2017 Members Share Posted February 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, The Wanderer said: there is no shortage of people who dress "right" but that does not mean "more respect" as opposed to ones who [allegedly] do not dress right. did you read what I wrote? My feelings on this issue have to do with my personal views and history. I said *nothing* about other people and whether or not they are showing "respect" with what they wear. Good grief. Wear a barrel with straps over your shoulders, if that's what floats your boat. **sheesh** Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 47 minutes ago, The Wanderer said: there is no shortage of people who dress "right" but that does not mean "more respect" as opposed to ones who [allegedly] do not dress right. There isnt any shortage of people that do "not dress right but that doesnt mean more respect" as well. Far more important than the clothing is the attitude. No matter what the issue there is always a but what if..No one has suggested that a check for appropriate clothing be done at the door or to shunn or take somebody to task for their clothing. For some, the attitude is any old thing is good enough while more appropriate choices are available, God should just be glad I came . For those that have more appropriate choices available why the determination to go as many do and mock and ridicule those that do feel attitude is important rudywoofs (Pam) and Outta Here 2 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Sometimes Attitude causes the response from others, not the suit. Outta Here and rudywoofs (Pam) 2 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, The Wanderer said: are you serious? Where and when does God say not to bathe or shave on Sabbath? Unless I hear different, I would consider that very mentality to be the true "sabbath breaking" in the crowd. Quote The fourth commandment is explicit. We are not to do our own work upon the Sabbath. God has given man six days for labor, but He has reserved the seventh to Himself, and He has pronounced a blessing upon those who keep it holy. On the sixth day all needful preparation for the Sabbath is to be made. . . . All purchases should be made and all our cooking should be done on Friday. Let baths be taken, shoes be blacked, and clothing be put in readiness. The sick require care upon the Sabbath, and whatever it may be necessary to do for their comfort is an act of mercy, and not a violation of the commandment. . . . But nothing of our own work should be permitted to encroach upon holy time. {HP 151.2} Quote Let every family of Seventh-day Adventists honor God by a strict regard for his law. The children should be taught to respect the Sabbath. On the day of preparation, clothing should be put in proper repair, shoes polished, baths taken. Then around the family altar all should wait to welcome God's holy day, as they would watch for the coming of a dear friend. {ST, May 25, 1882 par. 9} Quote The violation of the fourth commandment is not confined to the preparation of food. Many carelessly put off blacking their boots, and shaving, until after the beginning of the Sabbath. This should not be. If any neglect to do such work on a working day, they should have respect enough for God's holy time to let their beards remain unshaven, their boots rough and brown, until the Sabbath is past. This might help their memory, and make them more careful to do their own work on the six working days. {ST, May 25, 1882 par. 7} Apparently, bath taking and shaving, as well as braiding of the hair (mentioned in separate passages), are all on a par with working and/or doing one's own pleasure. The clothes should be laid out in readiness, even, and no ironing or shoe polishing should be done on Sabbath, of course. Maybe this is one reason traveling should not be done on Sabbath--because it's hard to arrive with clean, unwrinkled clothes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 21, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 21, 2017 It looks to me like the context of the above is that shaving and bathing was not done every day of the week: "If any neglect to do such work on a working day. . . let their beards remain unshaven. . .until the Sabbath is over." There was as time when bathing was a lot of work: building a fire, heating water, and everyone using the same water. Shaving a beard: Again, sounds like there was more than one days growth. Does not seem to be like anything like what we do today in bathing and shaving. Frankly, I am told that I need a bath/shower everyday. I do not think that God wants me to stink on the Sabbath day? GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Gregory Matthews said: It looks to me like the context of the above is that shaving and bathing was not done every day of the week: "If any neglect to do such work on a working day. . . let their beards remain unshaven. . .until the Sabbath is over." There was as time when bathing was a lot of work: building a fire, heating water, and everyone using the same water. Shaving a beard: Again, sounds like there was more than one days growth. Does not seem to be like anything like what we do today in bathing and shaving. Frankly, I am told that I need a bath/shower everyday. I do not think that God wants me to stink on the Sabbath day? Is that why no one will sit next to me in Church? Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said: Frankly, I am told that I need a bath/shower everyday. Maybe you need to drink more water and get a little exercise to sweat it out. Purification of the outside does little good if the inside is impure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 21, 2017 Members Share Posted February 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said: I do not think that God wants me to stink on the Sabbath day does God care what a person smells like on the Sabbath... in church? should we care if someone we sit next to in church reeks of B.O.? Nooooo.... We should make it a point to sit next to them. Perhaps we should all omit deodorant for a week to show "solidarity" with those who have B.O. ... because... you know... it's not important to God, is it? Because B.O. isn't a salvational issue.... CoAspen 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Quote All should have a special Sabbath suit, to be worn when attending service in God's house. While we should not conform to worldly fashions, we are not to be indifferent in regard to our outward appearance. We are to be neat and trim, though without adornment. The children of God should be pure within and without. {CG 531.2} That answers the question for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Green Cochoa said: 4 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said: It looks to me like the context of the above is that shaving and bathing was not done every day of the week: "If any neglect to do such work on a working day. . . let their beards remain unshaven. . .until the Sabbath is over." There was as time when bathing was a lot of work: building a fire, heating water, and everyone using the same water. Shaving a beard: Again, sounds like there was more than one days growth. Does not seem to be like anything like what we do today in bathing and shaving. Frankly, I am told that I need a bath/shower everyday. I do not think that God wants me to stink on the Sabbath day? 4 hours ago, Green Cochoa said: Maybe you need to drink more water and get a little exercise to sweat it out. Purification of the outside does little good if the inside is impure. I am so sorry you had to read that Gregory Mathews and to all the internet APL 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, GayatfootofCross said: I am so sorry you had to read that Gregory Mathews and to all the internet Why? Actually, it sort of relates to the topic, especially in light of the post to which I was responding. Consider the following: Quote Impurities are constantly and imperceptibly passing from the body, through the pores, and if the surface of the skin is not kept in a healthy condition, the system is burdened with impure matter. If the clothing worn is not often washed and frequently aired, it becomes filthy with impurities which are thrown off from the body by sensible and insensible perspiration. And if the garments worn are not frequently cleansed from these impurities, the pores of the skin absorb again the waste matter thrown off. The impurities of the body, if not allowed to escape, are taken back into the blood and forced upon the internal organs. Nature, to relieve herself of poisonous impurities, makes an effort to free the system. This effort produces fevers and what is termed disease. But even then, if those who are afflicted would assist nature in her efforts by the use of pure, soft water, much suffering would be prevented. But many, instead of doing this, and seeking to remove the poisonous matter from the system, take a more deadly poison into the system [deodorant?], to remove a poison already there. {CH 61.2} When I was young, I used to just hang up my Sabbath clothes after church and let them air for a week before re-wearing them the next Sabbath. Unless they had been soiled, they didn't need to be washed, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 21, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 21, 2017 Green said, below: I regularly get exercise. I am told that it is because I exercise to the point of sweating, that I need to shower. Maybe you need to drink more water and get a little exercise to sweat it out. Purification of the outside does little good if the inside is impure. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 21, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 21, 2017 Green said below: It is a rare occasion when we iron any clothing. Some of our clergy may travel as much as 200 miles on the Sabbath in order to perform their Sabbath duties. Maybe this is one reason traveling should not be done on Sabbath--because it's hard to arrive with clean, unwrinkled clothes. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APL Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Taking a bath 120 years ago was quite a chore. No so for many today. Shall we judge those that shower? Luke 6:1-11 1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands. 2 And certain of the Pharisees said to them, Why do you that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days? 3 And Jesus answering them said, Have you not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; 4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the show bread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone? 5 And he said to them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. 6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered. 7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him. 8 But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the middle. And he arose and stood forth. 9 Then said Jesus to them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? 10 And looking round about on them all, he said to the man, Stretch forth your hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other. 11 And they were filled with madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus. Gregory Matthews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 21, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 21, 2017 Yes, it is safe to sleep beside me in church. For those who are not aware of the background of the above post: I have a certified sleep disorder and I do sleep in church. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Is it just me or is this thread beginnin to smell? JoeMo and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 21, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 21, 2017 Yes, someone did not bathe for Sabbath services. GayatfootofCross and JoeMo 2 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said: Yes, someone did not bathe for Sabbath services. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 21, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 21, 2017 A true story: My wife and I had just moved to the area as we walked into the church for the first time, a woman pointed to two empty seats beside her and said: "You can sit here, I took a bath this morning." CoAspen 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 22, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 2/20/2017 at 4:18 PM, Gregory Matthews said: Gerry, I was responding to a comment that you made last Saturday at 4:50 in which you compared people dressing up for a job interview to going to church. My comment was to the effect that today many people dress quite casual for job interviews, so why should we expect less of them for going to church. What one wears to church is symptomatic of cultural norms. We need to get used to that if we wish to have a positive impact on our society today. When Christ was here on Earth, the people came to him in the clothing that they typically wore during the day, just as they were. Do we really need to demand more? And the cultural norm no matter what the culture is, is to wear YOUR best and put on YOUR best behavior in the presence of someone important. If your best is a T-shirt, so be it. Am I putting a yoke on someone? That's not my job . But our commission is to teach what the Bible teaches. And we serve and worship a Holy and awesome God who is altogether unlike us. See Isa 6, Ro 12:1-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 22, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 2/20/2017 at 4:46 PM, pierrepaul said: There are 3 topics that go round-and-round in SdA circles. Everyone has an opinion, there is no consensus, and the opinions are heavily influenced by culture. (a) Church dress, and as as a sub-topic, ornamental fashion (i.e. jewellery light, such as ties, tie clips, ornamental buttons, decorative scarves, lapel pins). (b) Church music styles. (c) Sabbath observance. These have been around for my entire life (almost 5 decades). It's the same debates over and over and over again - the same arguments, the same positions - the debates generate much heat, little light. I suspect that women in ministry will be a fourth such topic in decades to come. That's why we should stick to principles, i.e. Whatever we offer to our awesome and Holy God, be it fruit, our service, our bodies, our music, our praises, should be OUR best. And MY best may be at the bottom of someone else's value system, so there can be no room for judging someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 22, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 2/20/2017 at 8:45 PM, GayatfootofCross said: God has given us our imaginations. Is there someone here who imagines that God is looking down on earth getting insulted every time someone shows up wearing jeans and a black pocket Tee knowing full well this guy has a clean suit or at least a blazer in his closet ? "What is going on here? He's got a suit and not wearing it! Im offended..I will take away his blessing" Is there someone here who imagines that God is happy to see you in church ? " I am so glad he came even though he'd almost just stayed in bed cause of the weight on his shoulders and now I can prompt someone there to show kindness to him" Showing up to meet the King of the Universe dressed best and modest is wonderful ..but how does Jesus take it when we dont? It depends on what kind of God do we see? Doesn't it .............. GOD is patient, GOD is kind.GOD does not envy,is not boastful, is not conceited, does not act improperly,is not selfish,... is not provoked,GOD does not keep a record of wrongs. finds no joy in unrighteousnessbut rejoices in the truth.7 GOD bears all things, believes all things,hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends. And love does the BEST for the one loved. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 41 minutes ago, Gerry Cabalo said: That's why we should stick to principles, i.e. Whatever we offer to our awesome and Holy God, be it fruit, our service, our bodies, our music, our praises, should be OUR best. And MY best may be at the bottom of someone else's value system, so there can be no room for judging someone else. I wonder how this question would be answered for someone in a personal conversation? Would the mockery and attitude be such that those that believe any old thing is acceptable be the same. The impression is clearly given that those that are above such trivial superficial concerns are somehow more authentic or better christians. Some have expressed in the past they believe that online behavior does not indicate the true personality. I believe it does. Some may express a piety not shown in their personal life to impress or be a little more rude online than face to face but I think overall what you see is the true feelings.Some stories of spiritual abuse are true,unfortunately it happens and will until this world ends. Some I believe are embellished to show how absurd christians other than themselves really are. I can think of only a very few that I would be comfortable with mentoring a child of mine,especially in their teenage years. If they had a question ,something that was on their mind,to have it treated by someone with this mockery described as humor would not be someone that I would want to have any influence on them. As superficial and shallow as some insist on making those that disagree with them, some do think the attitude involved is of far more importance than clothing. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierrepaul Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I do not see the "dress up" vs "dress down" positions as equivalent. For those who wish to "dress up", they will always be welcome. In my experience, even the most laid-back, casual, "dress down" congregation will accept a man in a suit and tie or a woman in an elegant church dress. If you want to dress up, no one will stop you. There are a couple fellows in our congregation who wear suits and ties every week and no one has ever suggested to them that they ought to dress down. I occasionally dress up and I've never received any comments or "looks" suggestion I ought to take off my tie. OTOH I have been to "dress up" congregations where those in casual attire have received comments or looks. This personal experience is why I tend to have less sympathy for the "dress up" position, since they are (in my personal experience) mostly not asking for the right to dress up (which they always have) but rather they want to control how other people dress. I have trouble relating to this desire to want to control other people. Gregory Matthews and CoAspen 2 Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 22, 2017 Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, The Wanderer said: Did you ever wonder why this was in a book called "Child Guidance?" Child Guidance is a compilation, and therefore, quotes taken from it, must be set in their proper context. This is no different than the bicycle hub bub where some say we are not supposed to have a bicycle. The context of where this quote was originally written, is not something found in scripture, you will find no where that tells us in scripture to not bathe at a certain time, that time being Sabbath in this case. Ellen White did not present this as "the Word of God." It was simply an account of what she did and why. So, again, why was this quote put into a book called Child Guidance? Was it to tell everyone in all ages to come to not bathe during Sabbath hours? Making a hard fast rule without exceptions is ALWAYS dangerous! Is there anyone willing to deny bathing for someone who works in a dairy farm who has to milk his cows before church service and smells like cow dung? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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