bible protection

[Rahab]

I heard some strange things today and really did not agree.   But since I do not know all of the facts, I could say nothing.  Hopefully someone here can give me the facts.

 So, here is my question:  After the disciples penned the last books of the bible, where was it stored and protected.  It was written, I believe in Hebrew.  I know that the Waldenses protected it during their era (1170s), but what happened between the disciples' time (70 ad) and theirs.  What happened during those 1100 years?  I really don't know this history and wish someone would clear me up on this.   

This I do know, that the dead sea scrolls had the full text of Isaiah and it matched perfectly with my KJV bible text.  This kind of proof and proof of the prophecies and a continual chain of truth throughout the whole bible is proof enough.

note: and please forgive me if this is in the wrong area...I looked through everything did a search, and really couldn't find a proper place

[LifeHiscost]

I have seen more than a few secular headlines of recent, on the internet that were actually pointing to assumed incorrect information of the Canaanite found in the Holy Bible, assumedly proven wrong from archeological digs.

Just another effort on the part of satan to spread distrust in the Word among the believers or those who are inclined to believe.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.....Revelation 12

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[JoeMo]

The fact that there is so much agreement among the oldest manuscripts of scripture found all over the Middle East and North Africa gives some evidence of authenticity.  I would expect some of the minor discrepancies we see between books; because each historian/writer is looking at things from a different point of view.  If agreement between every text was perfect, I personally would suspect collusion among the writers.

[8thdaypriest]

Rahab,  if I might recommend a book:  The Journey from Texts to Translations - The Origin and Development of the Bible"  Paul D. Wegner, Baker Academic.

I bought mine on amazon.com.   Charts are abundant.  Tables are everywhere. 

I doubt the disciples wrote their Gospels in Hebrew.  Most likely Aramaic, which was the common language of the day.  That's assuming uneducated fishermen COULD write.  Luke probably wrote down Peter's account. 

[CoAspen]

Quote

I have seen more than a few secular headlines of recent, on the internet that were actually pointing to assumed incorrect information of the Canaanite found in the Holy Bible, assumedly proven wrong from archeological digs.

Just another effort on the part of satan to spread distrust in the Word among the believers or those who are inclined to believe.

Actually not! Reading beyond the headlines can be very beneficial. The clue is DNA.

Canaanites and DNA

[Geoarrge]

The Bible doesn't say that the Canaanites were annihilated, though.  Crowing that surviving Canaanite DNA disproves something that the Bible doesn't actually say, merely shows poor reading comprehension.

[B/W Photodude]

On 7/29/2017 at 11:46 PM, Rahab said:

I know that the Waldenses protected it during their era (1170s), but what happened between the disciples' time (70 ad) and theirs.  What happened during those 1100 years?  I really don't know this history and wish someone would clear me up on this.   

We refer to this period of time as the "Dark Ages." While we may think of it as a time of "spiritual darkness", I have read some opinions from secular sources as referring to this time as a period of poor record keeping. Keep in mind that at the time of the invention of the Gutenberg press, there were said to only be about thirty thousand books in all of Europe. Shortly there after there were millions of books in Europe. If one was literate in old languages and had access to the Vatican library, I imagine you would find much more about this time period. For more about this period, although "brief", you could read the Great Controversy and even Fox'es Book of Martyrs. There are numerous books of non-martyr related topics available also. Another good source of information, strangely enough, are books on the history of the popes.

Two books I have are:

Dark History of the Catholic Church

https://www.amazon.com/history-Catholic-Church-Michael-Kerrigan/dp/1782741348/

and

The Popes: Every Question answered

https://www.amazon.com/Popes-Every-Question-Answered/dp/1626862346/

No story of the Church in the Middle (Dark) Ages is stranger than the "Cadaver Synod." Strangely enough, Wikipedia seems to have missed the part of the Pope Formosa's body being thrown in the river after being found guilty. However, he had already been dead for sometime before being dug up and his corpse being put on trial!

http://www.medievalists.net/2017/07/cadaver-synod-low-point-history-papacy/ (The medievalists website seems to be a good source of medieval information.)

This dark age is said by some to be a future occurrence relative to our time. The rationale for this is that so much material is being digitized that machines of the future may not even be able to "read" it due to software changes. I can somewhat agree with this as even though I have been a Mac person for decades, much stuff I wrote twenty years ago I cannot even read today without firing up my obsolete computer and launch my obsolete software in classic Mac environment! "Pages" cannot read "ClarisWorks" or even Appleworks. Some images in jpeg format will not open up in my current desktop, and technically, my current desktop is almost vintage!

[Rahab]

On 7/30/2017 at 6:03 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

Rahab,  if I might recommend a book:  The Journey from Texts to Translations - The Origin and Development of the Bible"  Paul D. Wegner, Baker Academic.

I bought mine on amazon.com.   Charts are abundant.  Tables are everywhere. 

I doubt the disciples wrote their Gospels in Hebrew.  Most likely Aramaic, which was the common language of the day.  That's assuming uneducated fishermen COULD write.  Luke probably wrote down Peter's account. 

thank you... i will try and get this

[CoAspen]

I did not see or read any 'crowing' in the article, just merely pointing out the data that would seem to be in conflict with certain readings of texts. That is not unusual since one can find many 'versions' of text reading through out these forums.

[Gregory Matthews]

In this comment, I am responding to comments that Rahab made in the opening post:

1)  The language of the Old Testament was generally Hebrew, with some short sections written in Aramaic.

2)   The language of the New Testament was generally Greek with some Aramaic and Latin words.

3)  The language of the Dead Sea Scrolls was Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.  Hebrew was the major language.  Many of the scrolls were written in Aramaic and a few were written in Greek.

4)  The  Dead  Sea Scrolls contain elements of all 66 chapters of the book of Isaiah.  However, a few of those chapters either have missing sections, or sections that cannot be read.

5)  None of the Dead Sea Scrolls were written in the 1611 English of the KJV version.  Therefore, it cannot be said that the DSS Isaiah matches perfectly with the KJV.

It should be noted that neither the standard KJV that most of  us have been raised on, nor the recent NKJV perfectly matches the language of the 1611 version of the KJV.  The English language has changed considerably since 1611, and as it has changed, the language of the KJV was  changed up to the present when the NKJV was published.  Most of us would be unable to understand a Bible written in the 1611 language of the original KJV.  That English language today is just that different.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

To answer another question of Rahab:

We do not have today any of the original writings of the Biblical books.  None!  They simply do not exist.

What we have are:

1) Documents that claim to be copies of the original writings.

2)  Documents in which a writer states a claimed quotation from a Biblically related document.

 

[LifeHiscost]

I'm happy to accept God, the only Creator, to know how to keep His Truth unsullied enough to insure that those who wish to know Him, will be able not only to discern His character but will also understand clearly His desire for their continual behavior.

13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.....Jeremiah 13

31 So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.....John 8

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the Truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me....John 14

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that every one who believes in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.…John 3

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[Kevin H]

Good posts, but one that I was surprised that even Gregory missed:

For centuries we thought that Hebrew was a dead language in Jesus' day and that people spoke Aramaic. While Aramaic was indeed spoken, over the last couple of decades in the 20th century a lot of graffiti was found on buildings from Jesus day as well as other writings and yes, Hebrew was alive and well in Jesus day.  So we need to included this fact among the points that have been pointed out here.

[Kevin H]

On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 7:03 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

Rahab,  if I might recommend a book:  The Journey from Texts to Translations - The Origin and Development of the Bible"  Paul D. Wegner, Baker Academic.

I bought mine on amazon.com.   Charts are abundant.  Tables are everywhere. 

I doubt the disciples wrote their Gospels in Hebrew.  Most likely Aramaic, which was the common language of the day.  That's assuming uneducated fishermen COULD write.  Luke probably wrote down Peter's account. 

Dealing with your last statement, as mentioned above, both Aramaic and Hebrew were spoken in Jesus' day. As for "assuming that uneducated fishermen COULD write" Actually 8th day because the Jews had the Bible. The Jews were different from most of the world, they wanted all the Jews to be able to read the Bible. Thus the Jews were the most literate people in the world. A typical "Uneducated" "Illiterate" Jew usually meant that they had only the equivalent of a 2 to 4 years of college.

Now there were a few places that were out in the boondocks, such as Nazareth, where they only had the equivalent to today's 6th grade education.

Let's not forget that Peter, James and John owned the large boats that could go into deep water and had employees. They did not have their Ph.D. s in religion from the rabbis, but they were men of business well educated in business. What Jesus needed was a few men who were not that familiar with all the Jewish religious traditions and controversies but who knew how to administer a business.

You also said that "Luke probably wrote down Peter's account"  Did you mean to write "Mark probably wrote down Peter's account" That is what most scholars say as Mark has more of the information of Peter and what he was thinking. Also the disagreements between Mark and Luke are seen as reflecting the differences between the churches of Peter and Paul.

[Kevin H]

Hi Rahab: The disagreements between the ancient manuscript does tend not to be over any theological points. (Unless you are really a stickler over something such as the supposed 6,000 year age of the earth).  Apparently there is a section of the Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah that is a lot closer to Matthew 5-7 than our modern translations Isaiah, but otherwise the books with the names of the Prophets are nearly word for word what we have in our modern translations.   

[Gregory Matthews]

Hebrew a dead language:  At the time of the Dead Sea Scrolls, some were written in Hebrew.

NOTE:  The DSS date from prior to the time of Christ to after Christ.

 

 

[Rahab]

Great discussion here...thank you everyone for your input...

[Rahab]

and thank you for putting it in the proper place as I was not sure where it would fit being a 'new' reader here and still having trouble navigating around