SDAs and FGM

[Gregory Matthews]

A rising tide of female opinion is asking for the SDA denomination to formally take a stand on FGM.  If you do not know what FGM is, be prepared to be s shocked.

See:

https://atoday.org/the-churchs-response-to-female-genital-mutilation/

 

[LifeHiscost]

There is some evidence that we as human beings are not totally depraved yet, but what evidence there is indicates time is running out and Jesus' coming cannot be far off.

    In 2012, the FBI and U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement both 

recognized the International Day of Zero Tolerance for Female Genital Mutilation by calling for the custom’s “total eradication” and warning that anyone suspected of being involved in it – including those sending girls overseas to be cut – could be prosecuted by the Human Rights Violators and War Crimes Center.¹²  

¹² And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

¹³ And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth......Genesis 6

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent....Revelation 2:5

 

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.....Revelation 3:11

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

[B/W Photodude]

On 9/2/2017 at 7:15 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

If you do not know what FGM is, be prepared to be s shocked.

Another lopsided venture by those in the denominational leadership. We will get bent out of shape about FGM, but no one gives a ......... about MGM (male genital mutilation), also known by that lesser threatening word "circumcision." Inspire of the fact that it is now a non-obligatory religious act, as practiced today is nothing like what was done in Abraham's time, and can be severely damaging and even leads to the deaths of over 100 baby boys a years in the USA, people still cling to this sadistic practice of mutilating the genitals of baby boys. That is not a loving caring act. When will we stop carving our religion into the bodies of babies?

Do note that listed in the link, is that even such relatively minor acts like a pinprick to draw a "ceremonial drop of blood" is argued against. And that is a lot less damaging than circumcision of boys. 

[Gregory Matthews]

The Adventist Today post has disappeared.  It is gone.  I know nothing about this.

However the following links, while not the AT post will provide some information on FGM and  the SDA denomination:

http://www.enditnow.org/blogs/reports/posts/in-kenya-girls-say-no-to-fgm

http://www.path.org/files/FGM-The-Facts.htm

http://uir.unisa.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10500/4121/dissertation_ondiek-c.pdf?sequence=1

http://www.adrakenya.org/index.php?id=9&recid=10&pid=1

 

[B/W Photodude]

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I dont understand this kind of critcising of someone doing something right. Addressing one issue at a time is not  "wrong."

So, tell me where an official church office, publication, or organization has ever addressed the issue of the mutilation of baby boys?

 

[GayatfootofCross]

Well Male circumcision would be a fascinating thread on its own .. riiiight?

I wouldn't know where to stop.

We can take polls and everything!

But this thread looks at the deep issues of how women are treated  even since birth in so many cultures reduced to what they deem as less thans.

God gave the equipment but out of superstition and fear and ego we say .. "Woman are not good enough as they are."

Jesus went out of the way to show the opposite and when will the Church reflect that?

BTW I read it before it disappeared !

 

Jesus Christ

 

[B/W Photodude]

On 9/4/2017 at 6:13 PM, The Wanderer said:

I dont understand this kind of critcising of someone doing something right. Addressing one issue at a time is not  "wrong."

 

On 9/4/2017 at 10:04 PM, B/W Photodude said:

So, tell me where an official church office, publication, or organization has ever addressed the issue of the mutilation of baby boys?

 

On 9/5/2017 at 1:22 AM, The Wanderer said:

I view this comment as argumentative, and not really proving anything, in particular, nor does it disprove my comment. 

Was a bit surprised at the tone of these comments. First I am not allowed to mix two issues (it isn't two issues, it is one issue, that being the genital mutilation of children). So, I asked where has anyone in church government ever brought up the subject of ending the genital mutilation of children and and get accused of being argumentative and not proving anything. 

There is a wide segment of men today who deeply resent the action carried out on their bodies when they were helpless and unable to defend themselves. I consider it to be an atrocity of equal proportions to female genital mutilation. I know a lot of men who find themselves to be in the position of being mutilated have a hard time dealing with it and as a result have to defend it to prove that nothing wrong was done to them. But the reality is, all the excuses used to defend and promote cutting of baby boys are the same ones used in other countries to cut little girls. I will not go into those reasons, but they are just as "valid" either way. We should not be trashing people for cutting girls when we allow the cutting of boys.

https://www.facebook.com/WHOLECHRISTIAN

The original linked article was taken down for further editing and will probably resurface at some time.

[Gregory Matthews]

To b clear:  I am not aware of any policy of this forum that prohibits people from interjecting multiple issues into a thread.

However, there are a number of people who post here who object to that being done.

Personally, I am generally not one who so objects.  But, on occasion, when I start a thread, I will request that the focus be on one subject.

 

[Outta Here]

I hope the church will take a stand against genital mutilation of ALL children. It's high time the archaic practice be stopped.

[B/W Photodude]

51 minutes ago, Aubrey said:

I hope the church will take a stand against genital mutilation of ALL children. It's high time the archaic practice be stopped.

That's what I'm talking' about!

[B/W Photodude]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

1) You were not prohibited from doing anything here, your ideas were/are being questioned, and contrasted with other ideas

2) You can make it one cause if you want to; but even if one were to agree with that thought; it proves absolutely nothing about alleged "wrong-doing" by the Church in the public statement they made

3) What grounds would you really have to comment about "the tone" when you are posting outlandish anecdotes by which to blend church beefs, with issues that have nothing to do with the completely false accusation of  "allowing the cutting of boys?"

I have tried hard here to separate the ideas from the people, but I will say that your ideas on this seem to be doing something quite different.

If thats all I had to worry about in life re "circumcision"  I would be very happy. My suggestion is that Stern, may very well be taking an activist stance here, based on reasons unknown so far, but which does not allow for many men who are just fine and have no problem with it.  But, thats not really my point. Accusing the church of "allowing cutting of boys" just because they chose to make a statement, that did not have as wide a scope, or specific wording as you are mandating they should have just doesnt make sense. That point is unproven, and untrue. The church addressed a specific issue that had come to the public market of ideas, and they responded very well, as far as I know

I am aware that I am not "prohibited from doing anything here (actually that is not true!), but you did try and challenge me for extending the scope of the discussion. When I asked specifically where church leadership had ever spoken out against MGM I get called argumentative. I understand ideas may be questioned, but that is life when you take a position that may be unpopular, as sad as it is when you have to oppose people who support injurious procedures on newborns. What a way to be welcomed into the world. "Here little boy, you aren't perfect enough, let us fix you right up."

Alleging wrong doings is not what is being done. What is being done is bringing up the unfairness of protecting one group (girls) against an injurious procedure and even symbolic non-injurious rituals and not bothering to say any thing at all about a different group (boys). I would like to see the discussion to extend to all children. No child should be subjected to an invasion of their person and altered to satisfy someone else's ideas of health, religion, aesthetics, or anything else. You might think I am overly obsessed with the topic, but I am not the one trying to cut babies or supporting the concept. Put down the knives and step away from the baby!

As far as blending church and the issue, it may be well to consider that it is generally believed within the intactivist movement that John Harvey Kellogg was the "inspiration" behind the American adoption of the practice of circumcision. And maybe you are even aware he advocated that little girls have acid poured over their genitals. This was all in an effort to stop little kids from touching themselves too much. And for boys, ever since, circumcision has remained one surgical procedure looking for a problem to cure. From masturbation, to preventing HIV, cleanliness, and a host of other things, people keep trying to justify this abuse of baby boys. (Fortunately, the intactivists have not drawn the connecting dots from JHKellogg to the SDA church.) It used to be in this country that up until the later part of the twentieth century, parents could take their little girls to a doctor and get them surgically altered. Then they made it a federal crime in the 1990s punishable by 5 years in a federal penitentiary. Guess who got left out on that law. Hence the saying "Cut a girl, go to jail. Cut a boy, cash a check!"

However, if you are happy being circumcised and you know it, clap your hands. It is just you should expect guys to have the courage and testicular fortitude to do it as an adult and not force it on all babies so you won't have to remember yours. 

I don't really wish to continue this, but everyone keeps on and on about the "there is neither greek nor jew and we are all....". Well,  let us be also as kind and gentle to baby boys as we keep advocating for baby girls.

[B/W Photodude]

15 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

It is just you should expect guys to have the courage and testicular fortitude to do it as an adult and not force it on all babies so you won't have to remember yours. 

Only problem with the chart, lot's of men are unhappy with the outcome even when done as an adult.

Dr Momma is an incredible source of info. A page of info for Christians is:

http://www.drmomma.org/2009/06/information-on-circumcision-for.html

"And I testify again to every male who receives circumcision, that he is in debt to keep the whole Law. You who do so have been severed from Christ...you have fallen from grace." -Gal 5:3-4