deep dissappointment

[deonisa]

Hello everybody,

I was "born" Adventist, in an European country. Grew up in the church, got baptized when I was 13. My dad was a pastor (until he retired a few years ago). Both mom and dad have always been "real Christians" in the eyes of everybody in the church. But in my opinion they are extremely hypocrite people, trying to gain salvation by going to church. They simply can not stand criticism, whenever I tell them they have done something wrong they become really defensive. I have never heard them say "sorry, you are right, I have to change this and that in my life." Besides they sometimes speak ill of their children, my dad has even threatened me a few times. Sometimes he lies just to cover his mistakes. Mom and dad has never loved each other, they have put up with each other.

A few days ago he told me he was a good man, he had never cheated his wife or abandoned his children.

They are worried when I wear make up, have fun on Sabbath, wear inappropriate clothes to church, but are not worried about deep stuff. My two other siblings left the church a few years ago.

How can I go on going to church listening to his hypocrite sermons?! I have a child now and I would like my child to grow up in the church, but I am really disgusted and deeply dissappointed.

I believe there are many more like me. How can we go on like this? I feel like leaving the church forever and living my faith on my own.

I need help.

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Thank your for the risk you have taken in sharing your spiritual journey with us.  I am not going to ignore you.  But, I will let others 20respond to you before I respond. 

May the  God who deeply loves you continue to guide you in your journey.

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

7 hours ago, deonisa said:

was "born" Adventist, in an European country. Grew up in the church, got baptized when I was 13. My dad was a pastor (until he retired a few years ago). Both mom and dad have always been "real Christians" in the eyes of everybody in the church. But in my opinion they are extremely hypocrite people, trying to gain salvation by going to church. They simply can not stand criticism, whenever I tell them they have done something wrong they become really defensive. I have never heard them say "sorry, you are right, I have to change this and that in my life." Besides they sometimes speak ill of their children, my dad has even threatened me a few times. Sometimes he lies just to cover his mistakes. Mom and dad has never loved each other, they have put up with each other.

A few days ago he told me he was a good man, he had never cheated his wife or abandoned his children.

They are worried when I wear make up, have fun on Sabbath, wear inappropriate clothes to church, but are not worried about deep stuff. My two other siblings left the church a few years ago.

How can I go on going to church listening to his hypocrite sermons?! I have a child now and I would like my child to grow up in the church, but I am really disgusted and deeply dissappointed.

I believe there are many more like me. How can we go on like this? I feel like leaving the church forever and living my faith on my own.

Welcome to our group!

Your opening post has me torn in several directions.  I understand completely about thinking your parents are "hypocritical" Christians.  At one time, I thought that same thing about most Adventists, including my family.  But dwelling on that, feeding my negative perceptions of others, didn't do anything to make me feel better, or bring me closer to Christ....in fact, it did just the opposite, leading me down a deep, dark path.  It took me decades to understand that I was the one who was being critical of people, pronouncing judgment based on what I thought I saw and knew — I had been Judge, Jury, and symbolic Executioner of Christians in general, and was I ever good at it.

Your child is going to pick up on your attitude towards your parents' behaviors.  If your father is still preaching in the church that you attend, and you just cannot handle it, please consider transferring to another church in your area, if possible.  If that's not possible.... well... take your child to church, and listen to the sermons — you don't have to agree with everything that's said.  And remember that David wrote some awesome Psalms, that he was a "man after God's own heart," even though he was far from perfect, being a murderer and adulterer.

Quote

They are worried when I wear make up, have fun on Sabbath, wear inappropriate clothes to church

that's their opinions... you are an adult, are you not?  If you feel you are wearing appropriate makeup and clothing for church, then it's nobody else's business.  Fun on Sabbath?  For me, it would depend on what the "fun" was involving.  Some Adventists avoid certain entertainment during Sabbath hours, while others do whatever they wish.  That's a personal you-to-God issue.  And if someone criticized you, that's what I would tell them.

I really hope you can find a way to align yourself a bit with your parents.  I'd feel badly if your child didn't know his grandparents, or if he developed a negative view of them.  Grandparents can be very important in children's lives.

~ thoughts and prayers going your way, and again, glad you're here on the forum...

[debbym]

9 hours ago, deonisa said:

Hello everybody,

I was "born" Adventist, in an European country. Grew up in the church, got baptized when I was 13. My dad was a pastor (until he retired a few years ago). Both mom and dad have always been "real Christians" in the eyes of everybody in the church. But in my opinion they are extremely hypocrite people, trying to gain salvation by going to church. They simply can not stand criticism, whenever I tell them they have done something wrong they become really defensive. I have never heard them say "sorry, you are right, I have to change this and that in my life." Besides they sometimes speak ill of their children, my dad has even threatened me a few times. Sometimes he lies just to cover his mistakes. Mom and dad has never loved each other, they have put up with each other.

A few days ago he told me he was a good man, he had never cheated his wife or abandoned his children.

They are worried when I wear make up, have fun on Sabbath, wear inappropriate clothes to church, but are not worried about deep stuff. My two other siblings left the church a few years ago.

How can I go on going to church listening to his hypocrite sermons?! I have a child now and I would like my child to grow up in the church, but I am really disgusted and deeply dissappointed.

I believe there are many more like me. How can we go on like this? I feel like leaving the church forever and living my faith on my own.

I need help.

 

 

What makes us good is not avoidance of life damaging behavior.   I know many people who live relatively upright lives, and still have tremendous baggage and are not free, or happy, but have avoided various developments in their lives.  What makes us good is having Jesus living in our hearts.

I suspect this will be what helps you, and frees you to love as He loved.  Laying the whole burden of all the dysfunction of your family on The great Burden Bearer, can truly bring the most unexplainable changes in our lives.  Jesus is prepared to walk you through each step of learning and growing, and healing.

God does work through deeply imperfect people, and heaven is only for the undeserving.  Only Jesus could enter heaven on His own merit, and His merit is good enough and great enough for us all to stand on.

[deonisa]

10 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

  But dwelling on that, feeding my negative perceptions of others, didn't do anything to make me feel better, or bring me closer to Christ....in fact, it did just the opposite, leading me down a deep, dark path. 

 

[deonisa]

10 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

 

But dwelling on that, feeding my negative perceptions of others, didn't do anything to make me feel better, or bring me closer to Christ....in fact, it did just the opposite, leading me down a deep, dark path. 

I know, I can feel that in a way.

 It took me decades to understand that I was the one who was being critical of people, pronouncing judgment based on what I thought I saw and knew — I had been Judge, Jury, and symbolic Executioner of Christians in general, and was I ever good at it.

If you see immorality you can´t help but hate it! It doesn´t mean you are Judge, Jury, but that you are deeply dissappointed and sad.

[deonisa]

10 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

Your child is going to pick up on your attitude towards your parents' behaviors.  If your father is still preaching in the church that you attend, and you just cannot handle it, please consider transferring to another church in your area, if possible.  If that's not possible.... well... take your child to church, and listen to the sermons — you don't have to agree with everything that's said. 

I know, but I don´t talk about my feelings in front of my child.

 

And remember that David wrote some awesome Psalms, that he was a "man after God's own heart," even though he was far from perfect, being a murderer and adulterer.

 

The thing is that David acknowledged his sin and repented. My parents won´t. They really think they have no sins, nothing to change in their lives.

[deonisa]

6 hours ago, debbym said:

  What makes us good is having Jesus living in our hearts.

God does work through deeply imperfect people, and heaven is only for the undeserving.  Only Jesus could enter heaven on His own merit, and His merit is good enough and great enough for us all to stand on.

I find both these statements cliches.

 

1."having Jesus in our hearts"? what does that really mean? I don´t know if there is such a thing in the Bible. How can a person come into your heart? Anybody can pretend that "they have Jesus in their hearts" so they are on the right path. But it all comes down to being a righteous, moral person, it all comes down to deciding to lead a moral life, to work on it. Anybody who pretends "they have Jesus in their heart" but have no desire to change their character are nothing else but liars and a disgrace.

So the expression "having Jesus in your heart" is nothing else but an excuse for people to lead sinful lives.  Please leave me alone, don´t tell me I am wrong and should change my ways. I have Jesus in my heart and I don´t need anything else.

 

2. Does the second idea you expressed mean that everybody will go to heaven? Because everybody is undeserving.

If somebody is undeserving and unwilling to become better persons, how on earth will they ever go to heaven?

[Gregory Matthews]

Deonosa:  A number of years ago, I  went through a personal crisis.  I was SDA clergy and had been for many years.  Yet, I was in a situation where I was acknowledging to myself that I have given up on the SDA Church.  My crisis included the question as to what I was going to do about that.

My decision included deciding that for some aspects of what I was going through  i needed to seek professional help.  So, I picked up the telephone and set in motion a process to obtain that help.  NOTE:  I am personally sharing my experience and I am not suggesting that you need such.

Regardless of that process, I still needed to   decide what I was going to do about my relationship with the SDA Church.  In working through that issue, I came to the decision that I would not allow others to define for me what the SDA Church was and whether or not I was a part of that denomination.  It would be one thing if at some time a decision was made to expel me from the Church.  But, absent that I was not going to initiate that step myself.  In the mean time, I would  simply be who and what I was.  I  would be open about such.  I would not go sneaking around attempting to hide my true self.  God knew  me for who and what I was.  If humans did not like that, so be it.       

Denonisa, I am simply sharing with you something about my spiritual journey.  You may not be walking this exact same path and that is O. K.  I will tell you that God loves you for who you are and be who you are.  However, it would be well for you to  understand that how you relate to  people will potentially have something to do with how they relate to you.

I will suggest that confronting people with their errors (sins) will be most effective when:

1)  You have established a relationship with them that will allow you to do so.

2)  They have given you permission to do so.  

Absent that relationship and permission it is not likely that you will be effective in confronting them with their errors.  Your responsibility may be limited to those who have  opened the door for your to share with them.

As to your attending Church:

*  Congregations have personalities.  The reality is that some congregations simply may not be able to nuture some people spiritually.

*  You should search for a congregation that  can nurture you.  I truest that God will lead you in that.

*  The Internet is not an ideal place for spiritual growth.  Yet, in the times in whcih we are living, it may be the best     choice for some people who may not have any choice.   There is a SDA Congregation that is attempting to provide substantial spiritual support to people who are looking  for such on the Internet.  This approach is in a developmental stage and is developing as I write.  It is not fully developed.  If you would like to be a part of this, send an e-mail to:   japhet@me.com     and ask him for information about the Collective.

NOTE:  The Collective for all interested people, regardless of who they are and their denominational background and/or interests.  You may feel free to mention my name as Japhet and I know each other very well.

 

[deonisa]

30 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

 

I will suggest that confronting people with their errors (sins) will be most effective when:

1)  You have established a relationship with them that will allow you to do so.

2)  They have given you permission to do so.  

Absent that relationship and permission it is not likely that you will be effective in confronting them with their errors.  Your responsibility may be limited to those who have  opened the door for your to share with them.

Hello Gregory and thanks for your reply.

In this case, it´s my parents, so there is a kind of relationship. By the way, I have never felt too much love from my parents during my love. Never heard "I love you".

I would like to give you an example. We live close to my parents´ house. Sometimes their car breaks down and we lend them ours. My father drives carelessly and he has damaged the car a few times, but has never said sorry or done anything to fix it. Do I need to ask for their permission to tell them he has to fix it? 

[Gregory Matthews]

No.  That is an entirely different situation.  Discuss that with him.  Further, you are well within your rights to tell him that in the future he will not be able to use your automobile.

You may have insurance that covers the damage.  It will be up to you to decide whether or not you ask you Father to repair the damage, if covereed by your insurance.   Regardless, you can still tell him that he cannot use your vehicle.

 

[phkrause]

23 hours ago, deonisa said:

Hello everybody,

I was "born" Adventist, in an European country. Grew up in the church, got baptized when I was 13. My dad was a pastor (until he retired a few years ago). Both mom and dad have always been "real Christians" in the eyes of everybody in the church. But in my opinion they are extremely hypocrite people, trying to gain salvation by going to church. They simply can not stand criticism, whenever I tell them they have done something wrong they become really defensive. I have never heard them say "sorry, you are right, I have to change this and that in my life." Besides they sometimes speak ill of their children, my dad has even threatened me a few times. Sometimes he lies just to cover his mistakes. Mom and dad has never loved each other, they have put up with each other.

A few days ago he told me he was a good man, he had never cheated his wife or abandoned his children.

They are worried when I wear make up, have fun on Sabbath, wear inappropriate clothes to church, but are not worried about deep stuff. My two other siblings left the church a few years ago.

How can I go on going to church listening to his hypocrite sermons?! I have a child now and I would like my child to grow up in the church, but I am really disgusted and deeply dissappointed.

I believe there are many more like me. How can we go on like this? I feel like leaving the church forever and living my faith on my own.

I need help.

Welcome to the forum deonisa. And thank you for sharing! I would say that what your sharing is probably true for most in the SDA church and even most other denominations! It's sad that there are so many Christians to look up to, that don't seem to be what we think they should be. I used to think the same about my parents growing up. But as I got older and looked back, I saw them differently! They did the best they could, etc. That's why Jesus tells us to look at him, and him only, otherwise we do get kind of judgemental about others! Not that that's a bad thing. Anyway I will put you and your family in our prayers and pray the Good Lord helps to solve your situation. This is one of the reasons, at least to me, that we should have a church family, so we can all pray for each other. Let the Lord keep and bless you and your family in this time of trial.

[Gregory Matthews]

They are worried when I wear make up, have fun on Sabbath, wear inappropriate clothes to church,  . . . :

*  Much of what Adventists think on the above subjects is culturally defined and without clear Biblical support.  It reminds me of a time when it was thought that a pastor could  only wear black & white along with a tie when on the platform.

*  The time is here when we   ought to welcome all to our services who have come to peaceably worship regardless of what they were   wearing, to include blue jeans.   NOTE:  In another country, in a time long ago, not the U.S., there was a practice of bringing people up for formal discipline if they wore blue jeans in public.

*  A congregation exists in a specific society.  It can expect that if it wants to be open to that society, it will have people attend their services dressed as those people would be dressed if they were walking around in society, to include how  those people would dress if they attended another denomination.

*  The Sabbath is to be a delight as well as a time to spend with God.  The details of that, only you can work out.

[Ulunruh]

Maybe realizing that your family deeply needs prayers can help you put a different perspective on things. Sometimes we as the "child", even though we aren't a child anymore, still think of them in a childlike way, (and they continue to treat as a child). We still think of them as "role models" and are sorely disappointed with their poor "modeling".

As Adults we need to start thinking of our parents as fellow struggling humans on the path of life. They entered the world as parents with their own "baggage". Pastors especially often feel a tremendous burden to "present a good picture", yet deep down I think they realize they are poor struggling sinners, but instead of going to Jesus in deep humility they (and many of us as well) booster up their lagging confidence with a show of "I'm right, I'm good" front. Your parents need our prayers.

Pray for them, it will soften your heart toward them as well as allowing you to place their problems in God's hands. Pray for yourself as well, that your faith and your value as a child of God is in Christ, and not in the actions of others. Pray that God will give you grace to forgive -- because holding resentment in our hearts (even if it is based on very real hurts) will only destroy us, while letting go and forgiving can release us from very discouraging feelings.

Praying for you.

[LifeHiscost]

13 hours ago, deonisa said:

 

 

The thing is that David acknowledged his sin and repented. My parents won´t. They really think they have no sins, nothing to change in their lives.

Whenever we allow the faults/sin of others cause us to fail in our own responsibilities to the weak and erring, it just adds another weakness in our own character. Take it from one who has had over 80 years learning that my reproaches against those closest to me, didn't help them draw closer to Jesus. And one is never too old to stop learning. That's one reason why we're told; 

  ³⁰ And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’^[a] This is the first commandment.^{[b] 31} And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’^[c] There is no other commandment greater than these.”...Mark 12

Keep looking up.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!