Members phkrause Posted June 16, 2018 Members Share Posted June 16, 2018 Here are some interesting articles on this. The first two seem to be the same. The last one was an article written in Christianity Today, since I don't have a subscription to them I found the article at another website! It looks like it was copied and pasted there?? Anyway thought these were interesting. Gospel and Guns? How Did Those Become Linked? Since when did the gospel become associated with guns? Since when did the Christian faith become linked to the right to bear arms? https://www.christianpost.com/news/gospel-and-guns-how-did-those-become-linked-204440/ This next article is pretty much the same as the first one, if not exactly the same!! Since When Did Jesus Get Connected to Guns? https://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbrown/2017/10/26/since-when-did-jesus-get-connected-to-guns-n2400386 Why are American Christians obsessed with guns, war, and patriotism when Jesus taught a message of peace and love of enemies? https://www.quora.com/Why-are-American-Christians-obsessed-with-guns-war-and-patriotism-when-Jesus-taught-a-message-of-peace-and-love-of-enemies The Forgotten Side of the First World War https://pastebin.com/3YPLKrNC Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 The story of Desmond Doss and Hacksaw Ridge lends far more to balance re: christian"s relating to guns. God is Love!~Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Wars and violence and has very much been a part of Christianity for most parts of it's Own history. Until the State stepped in and said you cant do that. I don't think the State is inclined to stop it this time. The State says it's Christian. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 In my rural area its all about the guns. And I have been greatly troubled about this ever since 8 hours ago, phkrause said: . There are two things that people are ruled by. Love and fear. Most christians I know are ruled by fear. Fear of hell or annihilation by a cruel God. Fear of not looking holy enough or looking too worldly. ( That's a huge one in Christian Forums ) Fear of being judged comes into that (they know too well). Fear makes good people do bad things. Love doesn't judge others or self or even God. Love brings Joy and Peace to all people and situations. Thanks for these great articles. ............................... We cant strive for fruit or work up love ourselves We see how much Jesus loves us as we are .. that begat's this love. When you have Jesus ... you have it all. You won't want a gun again. phkrause, LifeHiscost and Gail 2 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcah Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Not motivated by fear, but by love of family and keeping my family safe. And some people are just motivated by the love of guns ? Taught my 16 y/o daughter how to shoot handguns for her birthday and took her to an indoor range. That was her birthday wish. It came true and she loved it. It happens to not only be a wonderful way to stay safer in a sinful world, but an excellent hobby. Quote -Jason Youtube.com/narcah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted June 23, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2018 The troubling thing in my mind is that there is Scripture in support of laying down one’s life. Our fears and a strong survivor instinct make those Scriptures hard to swallow I’ll try to dig up some references. The first that comes to mind is John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. phkrause and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted June 23, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2018 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. John 12:25 , KJV There are other verses that more specifically talk about giving up one’s life for Christ, but others, like this one, omit that part. GayatfootofCross and phkrause 2 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted June 23, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2018 in the USA, the right wing evangelicals were courted by the NRA because they had great buying power, often lived rural, and hunted to provide for their families, now they fear government that doesn't agree with them and many became militant and very armed, and may have arsenals. Because of a few heavily political lines of propaganda. Usually it is those who have bought into conspiracy theories. here is the marriage of religion and guns in the USA. GayatfootofCross and phkrause 2 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted June 23, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2018 Wasn’t the right to bear arms set down in the Constitution as a provision to protect the common people against a rogue government? LifeHiscost and Live4Him 2 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted June 23, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2018 Yes, I get that, and in our era of relative peace that’s the main and first view we’d land on. But for many in the world now and throughout history, this principle would entail the ultimate sacrifice, don’t you think? I suspect that in Bible times a violent end would be more of a reality. We also may have our turn... In either sense, literally or figuratively, God is greater than our veritable lives. To lay down our lives is not only the greatest manifestation of love but is not a thing to be feared. debbym, phkrause and GayatfootofCross 3 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 23, 2018 Author Members Share Posted June 23, 2018 Here's an email I received a while back with some quotes: How did guns become associated with Christianity? “I'm proud to be clinging to guns and God,” Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal Do a quick Google image search of the terms “guns” and “faith.” The pictures of Jesus holding guns, guns sitting on bibles, and people holding bibles and guns appear one after the other. While some pictures are from pro-Christian sites others are from sites making fun of Christians. “Thou shalt not kill.” Exodus 20:13 KJV A gun manufacturer even sells a semi-automatic assault rifle they call the “crusader” with these words from Psalms 144:1 inscribed on the side, "Blessed be the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle." The rifle's safety selector has three settings: Peace, War, and God Wills It. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Matthew 5:9 KJV The evidence is inescapable—in the current political climate many people associate Christians with gun ownership. “But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Matthew 5:39 KJV It wasn’t always this way. For Private Desmond Doss the Bible was clear: thou shalt not kill, blessed are the peacemakers, turn the other cheek. His simple faith made clear that he should value the lives of others above his own. His story, from his difficult early life with a dedicated Seventh-day Adventist mother, through the difficult days of basic training, right up to his self-sacrifice on the island of Okinawa, illustrates time after time the value of applying Christ’s love in every situation. Seventh-day Adventists today are proud to be associated with Desmond Doss, the only US soldier to ever win the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service as a conscientious objector. debbym and GayatfootofCross 1 1 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted June 24, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Gail said: Wasn’t the right to bear arms set down in the Constitution as a provision to protect the common people against a rogue government? After the revolutionary war, the soldiers went home, the young nation needed a reserve of men armed and ready to fight should any rogue government come against them, like they had just fought. This was the early national guard. This was the well armed militia. This was a group of people groping for their nationhood and power to remain so. We now have a "well armed militia" in the marines, the seals, the navy, the air force, and the army. If you want to arm yourself against the nation, then you are in civil war, and well help yourself to annihilation by drones, and weapons far beyond any home arsenal. The folks at Waco Texas are an example. they were extremely well armed and did not stand a chance. GayatfootofCross and phkrause 1 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted June 24, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 24, 2018 6 hours ago, phkrause said: Here's an email I received a while back with some quotes: How did guns become associated with Christianity? “I'm proud to be clinging to guns and God,” Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal Do a quick Google image search of the terms “guns” and “faith.” The pictures of Jesus holding guns, guns sitting on bibles, and people holding bibles and guns appear one after the other. While some pictures are from pro-Christian sites others are from sites making fun of Christians. “Thou shalt not kill.” Exodus 20:13 KJV A gun manufacturer even sells a semi-automatic assault rifle they call the “crusader” with these words from Psalms 144:1 inscribed on the side, "Blessed be the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle." The rifle's safety selector has three settings: Peace, War, and God Wills It. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Matthew 5:9 KJV The evidence is inescapable—in the current political climate many people associate Christians with gun ownership. “But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Matthew 5:39 KJV It wasn’t always this way. For Private Desmond Doss the Bible was clear: thou shalt not kill, blessed are the peacemakers, turn the other cheek. His simple faith made clear that he should value the lives of others above his own. His story, from his difficult early life with a dedicated Seventh-day Adventist mother, through the difficult days of basic training, right up to his self-sacrifice on the island of Okinawa, illustrates time after time the value of applying Christ’s love in every situation. Seventh-day Adventists today are proud to be associated with Desmond Doss, the only US soldier to ever win the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service as a conscientious objector. i wonder why these armed Christians don't remember when Jesus rebuked peter for slicing the servants ear off, and Jesus said those who take up the sword will perish by the sword. Gail and GayatfootofCross 1 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted June 24, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 24, 2018 I have no reason to believe that our documents delineating our rights as citizens of our nation, framing our national identity, required a statement permitting men to have a gun to hunt and provide for their family. This would be like placing a statement in the bill of rights ensuring that we could dig wells or build houses, or own horses. The right to have a weapon as an instrument or tool of survival was never questioned, nor needed to be established or preserved by national law. Owning a weapon for survival, protection of ones domicile, and for ensuring food was never questioned nor could it have been a threatened idea that needed to protected. Please note, this is my humble opinion. phkrause 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted June 24, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 24, 2018 We have a politicized Christianity that has been operating since the 50's that has an agenda to secure and use political authority to enforce morality in the nation. Those who see the government as so corrupt that it is dangerous to Christianity, will feel the need to control that government to preserve Christianity, and the establishment of Godly militias add to that power. This is taking things into human hands. God remains in control, and nothing man can do can add to or take away from the power of God and the truth. Nothing humanity can do can create love, or moral power. God is the continual source of this for all, every moment. God's ear is not deaf, and His arm is not shortened that it cannot save. If we go about to establish these things we are denying the power of God. GayatfootofCross, Gail and phkrause 3 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live4Him Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Frankly I am surprised at the ignorance in our church over this topic. It wasn't that long ago that even those who chose not to own guns supported the right because they understood that it is an important right in our constitution. The second amendment is recognized as a God given right. No the right to bear arms isn't so you can shoot a squirrel with an old rusty musket. "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787 "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787 Some will argue yeah but only the "militia" (by their interpretation army) has the right? well what did our founding fathers mean when they spoke of militia? "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788 God raise up the Untied States as a bastion of freedom in the world. What gave us that freedom? It was the gun. I've never heard of anyone complain about the use of the gun during the revolutionary war. We enjoy the freedom today those guns gave us. Is self defense Biblical? In Exodus 22:2 it says if a thief is stealing from you in the night and you kill him there is no consequence. Remember those who were convicted of murder were killed also. Some will say yes but Jesus said if you live by the sword you die by the sword. Yes He did, he also said "Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. " Christ sent them the first time totally reliant on His provision, the second time he told them to prepare for their travels themselves including making provision for self defense. So is it wrong if I see someone with a gun getting ready to harm others to use a gun to save life? I understand that Christ taught to live peaceably and non violently but I see nowhere in scripture that you are not allowed to protect your family or those around you. Thou shalt not kill means do not commit murder, it does not mean you cannot kill anyone. It's a hard topic I think and one each should follow their conscience on. I just wish that people made intelligent informed decisions on the topic instead of puppeting what some CNN commentator says about it. Our founding fathers realized the only insurance against tyranny was an armed population. Whether you want to own a gun or not is left to you and your conscience. I have carried for some years now. I told the Lord if He wants me to not carry to simply tell me, He has never brought the topic up. Would I use it in self defense of myself at present? Probably not. Would I use it to defend my wife or others in public? Without hesitation. I had an amusing situation at work some time ago. I worked at a place where a lot of the guys in the office were anti gun, they knew i carried. One day we had what we thought could possibly turn into a shooter situation. Guess what all the guys that hated guns in the office said, "I hope you have your gun." So I've found it's sort of like the atheist in the foxhole thing. People hate guns until they find themselves in danger, then they hope there is one around. A little P.S. Why did Christ tell Peter to put up His sword? Joh 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? It was time for Christ to fulfill His mission, it was not time for resistance. Solomon says "Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;" Geoarrge 1 Quote Thy word is a lamp to my feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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