Europe Speaks Again

[Gregory Matthews]

https://atoday.org/another-union-conference-expresses-concern-about-gc-compliance-proposal/

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

I have considered moving    this topic to the section on female ordination and decided not to do so.  The  fundamental issue here is how to obtain unity.  As such it has united people who object to the ordination to females in opposition to the proposal for unity.   This issue  is much more than just the ordination of women.   

I do not have the agenda for this meeting, but the following, as reported by Adventist Today are some (not all) of t he items scheduled to be discussed:

Quote

The entire meeting will not be spent on the major issue. Other key policy decisions are on the agenda, some of them perhaps related to “compliance” although not labeled as such.

The language in Article III entitled “Relationships” in the Model Constitution for Union Conferences in the GC Working Policy, which states that “The purposes, policies and procedures of this union conference shall be in harmony with the working policies and procedures of the … General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists,” is proposed to be amended by also inserting “voted actions.” This is similar to language in the “compliance” proposal described above. The same amendment is proposed for the model constitutions for union missions, unions of churches, local conferences and missions.

A new policy on “Employment of Personnel” would, if voted, require people hired “in every capacity” be “members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in regular standing … who exert a positive influence along spiritual lines for building up the work and who adhere to Church standards and principles in all facets of their lives.” This is specifically to “institutions” as well as conferences, which could create major issues of Adventist hospitals where the vast majority of the staff are not Adventists. If adopted, this would be policy E 03 in the GC Working Policy.

A revised version of policy L 20 will be considered, re-writing it so it is about “Ministerial and Theological Education” in general instead of specifically the “Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary.” It recognizes that the denomination has grown to have a number of graduate schools specializing in theology, Biblical studies and pastoral ministry. New language inserts “theological unity” along with retaining language for “sound scholarship in the fields of Bible and religious history.” Also, “special emphasis must be given to Seventh-day Adventist distinctive teachings and lifestyle.”

The charter for the “Financial Statement Review Committee,” bodies which have long been required to function at each level of the denomination’s organization on a yearly basis, is proposed to have two additional duties added to the four that already exist: (1) “Review [the] auditor’s Policy Compliance Report … for reported policy non-compliance with core financial policies … and discuss with management team their plans to achieve compliance.” (2) “Review auditor’s Audit Communication Letter for reported internal control deficiencies …”

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

We will miss you.

[Gregory Matthews]

My friend, you have had freedom to post as you please on this subject.

You do not have to believe that you will be missed.  That is your choice.

I hope that after you have had time to rest, relax and recoup, you will return.

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

41 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Not five minutes after I posted the above and someone from the forum was texting me to see if I am OK or not. That leads me to believe that some people do care. However, it does not follow that the push and shove over this issue is taking place with people who care about the church They are proving daily whose side they are on.  The message here is clear. They dont care about the church; even though they invoke the name of Jesus in their vassal approach to "ordination."

FWIW, I wasn't under the impression that you were having a difficult time, or that you were leaving the forum.  I just thought you were annoyed with the inundation of "articles" related to WO being posted in the Real Issues area.  I'm tired of it, as well.

Articles are okay, but they don't really make the forum interesting.... we aren't discussing the articles with their author(s).  Indeed, we rarely even discuss the articles with the person who posted them.  Kind of odd.  If one posts an article you’d think the poster would have a personal comment or opinion regarding said article.  If not, then why post the article?  Forums are for discussion … it’s not a “news” agency.  IMHO.  **shrugs**

[Stan]

Something to consider about the upcoming 'vote'

Not every organization is under US Law.

For example, a Church or other Charity in Canada that lets a foreign power take control of them and remove a democratically elected Church leader, as my long-term friend Ted Wilson is proposing, will cause the Church in Canada to either lose our charitable status, or we will have to separate from the World Widebody.  I suspect other countries have similar laws.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

  As a Moderator, I consider one of the functions of this forum to be that of a news organization.  As such, I  often post articles that  I  consider worthy of being a news item.

I often do not comment on stuff that I post because, as a Moderator, I do not want to lead the discussion.

Yes, I do post comments sometimes.

 

[B/W Photodude]

20 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I often do not comment on stuff that I post because, as a Moderator, I do not want to lead the discussion.

Yes, I do post comments sometimes.

Just a thought. While you may not want to lead the discussion, you do by the source of the articles you post. They mostly seem to come from liberal (left wing) Adventist sites. There does seems to be a bit of bias in the discussions you wish to create.

[CoAspen]

You posters need to quit 'whining', here is some cheeseand crackers!!

[CoAspen]

Quote

 They mostly seem to come from liberal (left wing) Adventist sites. There does seems to be a bit of bias in the discussions you wish to create.

Quote

 It is NOT really right or fair to use Moderator privilege here to pepper us with liberal propoganda.

Sounds like whining to me! Useing the terms 'propaganda', 'Liberal' doesn't sound like someone wanting to have a discussion. Just name calling because their opinion  is different? Well, at least trying too, because useing labels doesn't mean a lot w/o a definition. But, based on the way the term 'liberal/left wing' is used, one can assume it is meant to be derogatory...as long as assumptions are being made. 

Got to be tuff for birds, being they have left and right wings! At least they don't get confused!!

Don't like topics about WO, don't read them!

(is there a paticular cheese or crackers you enjoy?)

[B/W Photodude]

So, it seems that the compliance issue was voted on and the results are ... holding my breath!

The vote passed 185 to 124. We now have a committee selected by Ted Wilson that can police the church from top to bottom.

May you all be obedient, compliant Adventists.

https://atoday.org/the-past-with-a-future-day-1-afternoon-report/

I guess it was necessary to throw in that last little bit about being obedient compliant Adventists. We will just over look the fact that it was a resounding affirmative vote at the GC, because we all know that it is just a group at GC doing all of this.

This whole situation is very concerning, and while I do not like to attach current events to prophecies, it is just so much like those prophecies of fearing the church would fail, but would stand strong. Unfortunately, the same prophecies include large numbers of members defecting from the church and many other end time events. But I will just keep watching.

[B/W Photodude]

13 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

I guess it was necessary to throw in that last little bit about being obedient compliant Adventists. We will just over look the fact that it was a resounding affirmative vote at the GC, because we all know that it is just a group at GC doing all of this.

Sometimes GC gets used in multiple ways!

So,

GC #1 - The General Conference session at San Antonio

GC #2 - The group of men in the church headquarters holding the church hostage!

(TIC present!)

[Gregory Matthews]

Earlier, Photodude posted in # 1 below and The Wanderer posted in #2:

Yes, I have a bias.  Yes my posts reflect a bias in one direction.  Contrary to what you might think, my bias reflects a more moderate, middle of the road, so to speak. approach to Adventism.  It actually does not reflect a very liberal branch of Adventism.  "But, that could be argued.

In any case,  get used to it.  I post items that I believe are news worthy.  I will continue to do so.  No one has to read them.   I do not expect that everyone will want to read everything that I cite.

#1

Quote

Just a thought. While you may not want to lead the discussion, you do by the source of the articles you post. They mostly seem to come from liberal (left wing) Adventist sites. There does seems to be a bit of bias in the discussions you wish to create.

#2

Quote

I agree; its not like I am the only one that has noticed. I just said what many others are thinking. It is NOT really right or fair to use Moderator privilege here to pepper us with liberal propoganda.

[Gregory Matthews]

The Wanderer:   Exactly.  The discussion will continue.  Both sides will participate in it continuing to be an issue.  This is only the beginning.

[B/W Photodude]

10 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

We  are living in a time when every wind of doctrine is blowing, and when those who think they stand are liable to fall. We are living in a time when Satan is striving to implant seeds of skepticism and infidelity in every mind. We are living in a time when error is taught so insidiously that the faith of many is being rapidly undermined.  {Canadian Union Messenger, September 3, 1907 par. 16}

That was written over one hundred years ago. So, has Satan succeeded?