Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted December 12, 2018 Moderators Share Posted December 12, 2018 Eight of the nine Regional Conference Presidents recently met privately with President Ted Wilson to express concern over some recent statements that he had made. See: https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2018/regional-conference-leadership-meets-ted-wilson-concerning-his-annual-council-remarks NOTE: This meeting lasted for almost four hours. phkrause 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Ranger Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I'm all for dialogue, but to consider TW as "the leader of God’s church" is not helpful. CoAspen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted December 13, 2018 Members Share Posted December 13, 2018 8 hours ago, Lone Ranger said: I'm all for dialogue, but to consider TW as "the leader of God’s church" is not helpful. He is though, the leader of the SDA Church!! JoeMo and Lone Ranger 1 1 Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 hours ago, phkrause said: He is though, the leader of the SDA Church!! The SDA Church is not exclusively God's Church. God's church is composed of all who have put their faith in Him - regardless of denomination. TW is NOT the leader of God's church - Jesus Christ is the leader of His church through His Spirit. rudywoofs (Pam) and Lone Ranger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, JoeMo said: The SDA Church is not exclusively God's Church. TW is NOT the leader of God's church - Jesus Christ is the leader of His church through His Spirit. Well, … you can define church in many ways. There is the "church" of all the true believers in Jesus. Then there is the organization charged with caring for and maintaining the resources and beliefs of the church. "TW" is the leader of the organization of the church. And there is New Testament precedent for such leadership. When I say "TW" is leader, he is responsible for carrying out the decisions of the world wide body of the church as determined by their actions at the General Conference sessions. The fact that certain sub-groups of the church choose to rebel is something for "TW" to have to deal with. I have already posted statements from EGW regarding decisions of the General Conference and how they are to be carried out. (One of the difficulties with so many threads is how many times do you have to / should you say it?!) However, many do not follow or believe EGW and or any of the early pioneers of the church. Many also would rather take over the church and remake it in their own image. I do not think that is going to happen. With over 1000 denominations in this country, it is a pretty well established fact that anyone can make up their own new set of beliefs anytime they want. Why do they choose to foment rebellion in the SDA church which has been given a mission to undertake and complete? So, again, it would really behoove one to seriously consider the story of the rebellion of Korah in the Bible or the book Patriarchs & Prophets. (Spoiler alert: the earth ate him!) LifeHiscost, phkrause and Lone Ranger 2 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 9 hours ago, The Wanderer said: Scripture is clear that there is what JoMo referred to, as "The Universal Church" and The Remnant Church. I know some do not like the word "remnant" in the same breath as "church" but it needs to be noted that in saying that, scripture is NOT telling us that "the remnant" is in any way superior to, or better than. "Remnant" refers to some very specific points in time, and history. TW has done a lousy job of teaching this essential point, to the church, and to the world at large. Of course, its NOT all his fault. The fault is just as much MINE. I have a different take on the SDA church being the remnant church. I get my ideas from one Bill Liversidge who talked about three times in the history of this world God has raised up a movement (church) to accomplish His goals. The SDA church is the third of the three. I would not put much of the blame for not understanding important points on TW. Just like Donald Trump (sit down Stinsonmarri!), the media has been clamoring so much for his downfall that the public can hardly see what has occurred in his administration. And to advance the liberal agenda, the same derangement towards TW has occurred. It is like this Bible verse, "And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country." Luke 4:24 Jesus had to deal with the same kind of situation, as did many other prophets. So, yes, hater members need to look at themselves for where the problem lies! It would be wise for all to consider carefully what lawlessness as discussed in the New Testament is all about. Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Ranger Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 11 hours ago, The Wanderer said: TW has done a lousy job of teaching this essential point, to the church, and to the world at large. Of course, its NOT all his fault. The fault is just as much MINE. Though I agree that TW has done a lousy job I would DISAGREE that the fault is just as much yours or anybody else's. I do not subscribe to the political BS of Universal Responsibility. I (and by extension, you) am responsible for my sphere of action and influence only. This is ESPECIALLY the case when it comes to the SDA church, where church leadership on all levels regularly and systematically ignores situations which need addressing but don't directly concern them (or, more to the point, their pocketbook.) So the (SDA) church leadership has created their own situation and it is NOT your fault or anybody else's except their own. By failing to address local church (especially), Conference and/or Union issues in a timely and CHRISTIAN manner THEY have created at all levels a disregard for their own authority. * Take this as the "Reader's Digest Condensed Version" of my position re: Universal Responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Ranger Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Wanderer said: That post was a good one; and for the most part I agree. The major point of difference would be that I was viewing "my responsibility" as very personal; and NOT as in "universal responsibility" as in your post. Wish I had more time/energy to explain - next time. Point taken. No viewpoint can be accurately conveyed or understood without much dialogue and clarification. B/W Photodude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted December 14, 2018 Members Share Posted December 14, 2018 My take on the SDA church is, I'm inclined to go along with Pr John Carter, EGW, and a score of other theologians and pastors, the the SDA church is God's remnant church. Now are we living up to that? And as far as a "end time remnant, I would say that that end time remnant will consist of many different people from many different denominations who stand up for God as Revelations lays out!! B/W Photodude 1 Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 11:44 PM, The Wanderer said: TW has done a lousy job of teaching this essential point, to the church, and to the world at large ... 21 hours ago, Lone Ranger said: Though I agree that TW has done a lousy job ... I was listening to one pastor talking when someone asked him a question. The pastor looked thru his pockets and noted to the questioner, "I think I forgot my spoon!" So, should TW be out there spoon feeding the members?! The question would be, "Exactly what is TW supposed to be teaching that the membership should have already figured out for themselves?" We all read the "same" Bible. It is the duty of the individual members to search the Scriptures much like the Bereans did do. Perhaps many do not really even follow what TW is up to. Does anyone read the articles that he writes that frequently show up in the pages of Adventist World magazine? Do you follow him on Facebook and/or Twitter? Has anyone even watched TW's sermon "Stand Firm" from the GC Annual Council of 2018? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ-48S3ooRM or any of the other TW sermons available on Youtube? Not sure what else TW needs to do for the regular membership than what is being done. He is supposed to be coach of a team, not the teacher of a bunch of pew warmers. Many Advetnist churches, like many other protestant churches, for all practical purposes are DEAD churches. A very informative book on the topic of dead churches is Russell Burrell's book "Waking the Dead." phkrause 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 11:17 PM, JoeMo said: The SDA Church is not exclusively God's Church ... Oh boy! I think you said a mouthfull there! Given the wheat/tares parable, I suspect that a part ownership belongs to Satan himself! Especially since we have defined a church as the members and not the physical facilities. JoeMo 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 9:17 PM, JoeMo said: The SDA Church is not exclusively God's Church. I should have stated this more clearly. I meant to say that God has members of His church in other denominations besides SDAism. That being said, what B/W stated is also true! 13 hours ago, B/W Photodude said: Given the wheat/tares parable, I suspect that a part ownership belongs to Satan himself! rudywoofs (Pam) and B/W Photodude 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 On 12/13/2018 at 5:59 PM, phkrause said: My take on the SDA church is, I'm inclined to go along with Pr John Carter, EGW, and a score of other theologians and pastors, the the SDA church is God's remnant church. Now are we living up to that? And as far as a "end time remnant, I would say that that end time remnant will consist of many different people from many different denominations who stand up for God as Revelations lays out!! 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14 My own confidence is in following the practice of Jesus. So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. Luke 4:16 God is Love!~Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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