President Ted Speaks

[Gregory Matthews]

See:

https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2019/general-conference-president-ted-wilson-pens-open-letter-alleging-religious-liberty-abuse

It should be noted that  President Ted did not tell us the details of much of what he asks us to prayer about.  I do not have enough knowledge to post it here.  I have in the back of my mind that there are  may be some valid reasons for the government becoming involved in the so-called internal affairs of the SDA denomination.  Therefore, absent more information, I can not pray as President Ted has requested.

 

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22 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

It should be noted that  President Ted did not tell us the details of much of what he asks us to prayer about.  I do not have enough knowledge to post it here.  I have in the back of my mind that there are  may be some valid reasons for the government becoming involved in the so-called internal affairs of the SDA denomination.  Therefore, absent more information, I can not pray as President Ted has requested.

I tend to think that President Wilson took a prudent step in a message to the church that regarded believers under duress by a foreign government. Wilson did give enough info that the situation can be prayed about because the only prayer that should be prayed is that God's will be done. There is no need for me to know more. There was another SDA list that would refuse to post info regarding governmental actions against church members under the rationale that it could blow back on people living in the situation. I suspect info people in the Burundi government are watching the world scene for more information that could expand their actions against the church. Perhaps even more church members could come under suspicion and be arrested.

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https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2142951942427353&id=221442104578356&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_activity

[Gregory Matthews]

It should be noted that President Ted did not ask that we pray for God's will be done.  Rather, he asked in the quote below, for the following.

The SDA Church has a situation that is currently, as I understand it, going on in which a group of SDAs has appealed to their government to void the election of a President as that group claims that that President was placed in office in violation of the law and another person should be placed in that office.   It is the right of any person to apply to their government under the law of their country.

I do not remember is that country was Burundi.  But, I suspect that it was.

I should remind those reading this thread that the SDA Church operates in many countries where  it does not have some of the protections that we have in the U.S.    I one lived in a country where the government had much more control over the operation of a SDA college that exists in the U.S.   That control included staff, students accepted and programs and classes offered.  Yet we operated the college, in compliance with governmental directives.   While living in that country, the a law was passed that gave the government control over what we published.  Yet our denominational leaders told me that law would not be a problem and they would be able to publish whatever they wanted to publish.  It just inserted an additional step in the process.

I would want to know if this issue is actually a fight between two groups of SDAs, one of which has, under the law of their country, asked the government to intervene.  If this is the case, I am not convinced that the prayer that President Ted has requested is the prayer that we should pray.

In any case, I believe that we should have more objective information.

This is “Day Number 4” in this highly unjust and illegal interference by the Burundi government into the ecclesiastical activities of the Seventh-day Adventist Church by arresting our duly-appointed Burundi Union president. Please pray intently and unceasingly around the globe for religious freedom for God-fearing church members in Burundi.

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9 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

It should be noted that President Ted did not ask that we pray for God's will be done.  Rather, he asked in the quote below, for the following.

I do not really need for Ted Wilson to ask for God's will to be done. That is just the only way to pray. 

As far as the Spectrum article, realizing it was a "copy/paste" from a church website, the reader comments really blew me away. In fact, they were to put it as mildly as possible .... really really sad. Sister White often said she trembled for our church. I wonder how she would describe her reactions if she could read Spectrum comments today.

I have more than once compared this hostility for Ted Wilson to the desert rebellion of Korah. I would recommend reading the chapter on Rebellion in the Third Testimonies for the Church. Excerpts are:

It is hardly possible for men to offer a greater insult to God than to despise and reject the instrumentalities that He has appointed to lead them. They had not only done this, but had purposed to put both Moses and Aaron to death. These men fled from the tents of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram through fear of destruction; but their rebellion was not cured.

They still cherished their jealous hatred of the men of God's appointment and strengthened themselves in their mad course of resisting the authority of Moses and Aaron. Satan was at hand to pervert the judgment and lead them blindfolded to destruction. Their minds had been most thoroughly poisoned with disaffection, and they had the matter fixed beyond a question in their minds that Moses and Aaron were wicked men, and that they were responsible for the death of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, ...

"But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the Lord." In their indignation they were prepared to lay violent hands upon the men of God's appointment, who they believed had done a great wrong in killing those who were good and holy.

Here we find a striking exhibition of the blindness that will compass human minds that turn from light and evidence. Here we see the strength of settled rebellion, and how difficult it is to be subdued. 

The apostle Paul plainly states that the experience of the Israelites in their travels has been recorded for the benefit of those living in this age of the world, those upon whom the ends of the world are come. We do not consider that our dangers are any less than those of the Hebrews, but greater. There will be temptations to jealousies and murmurings, and there will be outspoken rebellion, as are recorded of ancient Israel. There will ever be a spirit to rise up against the reproof of sins and wrongs. But shall the voice of reproof be hushed because of this? If so, we shall be in no better situation than are the various denominations in our land who are afraid to touch the errors and prevailing sins of the people.
 

[Gregory Matthews]

The fact remans:  President Ted did not give us important information that I would want to have in order to pray for the situation.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think there's more to the situation than what the GC is proffering.  From what I've read, it sounds like a "political" rather than a "religious" kerfuffle.  Plus, there's the insinuations of tribal racism, as well as the theft of funds.  I doubt the SDAs hands are completely clean...

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1 hour ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

I think there's more to the situation than what the GC is proffering.  From what I've read, it sounds like a "political" rather than a "religious" kerfuffle.  Plus, there's the insinuations of tribal racism, as well as the theft of funds.  I doubt the SDAs hands are completely clean...

Looking at the geography, you will notice that Burundi is right up next to Rwanda. Burundi is a country composed of Hutus, Tutsis, and one other ethnic group. One need only remember the killing fields of Rwanda to see the dire situation there. Foreigners are advised not to go there. While it might be termed a political "kerfuffle", it is an issue of religious liberty. We do not really need the leaders of the church to be those who have been picked by a political government. The current leader of the country has recently "won" a vote that gives him political power thru 2034.

Nevertheless, through it all, there are over 180,000 SDAs in Burundi and are said to be a blessing to the country through their work with ADRA.

https://www.adventistreview.org/what-seventh-day-adventists-face-in-burundi

It is easy to sit back and think we have time before the end as there is no persecution in the US. I tend to think that persecution may not even come to the US. But Christians and SDAs are facing persecution all over the world. From N Korea with 1/4 of Christians in concentration camps, the persecution of the church in China, the mob violence against Christians in India (One worker recently saw a poster offering $5000 to anyone who would kill a Christian pastor), the persecution of Christians in Muslim countries, it almost seems like not to have persecution is the exception in the world. So, I suspect many will be taken when heaven moves while people slumber in Western cultures (SPD,TED, & NAD).

If you wish to monitor worldwide persecution visit:

https://www.opendoorsusa.org

You do not really need President Wilson to tell you what to pray for. But it is a serious situation in Burundi that has more than just President Wilson worried.

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8 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I thought some people are upset because he wasnt more specific.

I did not feel he needs to be more specific!

[Narcah]

“Therefore, absent more information, I can not pray as President Ted has requested.”

So... if someone at church is like “Can you please pray for my mom, she’s going through a hard time” you won’t pray for her without demanding details?  AND you’ll feel the need to bash them on a public forum?