Abortion, welfare and crime rates - a link?

[aldona]

I just saw this letter to the ed. in "The Australian" today.

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Unborn criminal minds

July 05, 2006

CRIMINOLOGIST Paul Wilson's assertion ("Police dismiss DPP's welfare war on crime", 4/7) that there is no evidence to support the argument that welfare is the key to fighting crime is patently wrong.

Renowned US researcher Steven Levitt put the politics of law and order aside and investigated why there had been such a dramatic drop in crime rates in the US during the 1990s. The populist view was the reduction in crime was the result of more police and tougher jail sentences. Levitt found not a shred of evidence to support this theory but, instead, discovered an irrefutable link between the legalisation of abortion and the drop in crime.

Exactly 18 years after the US Supreme Court handed down its landmark Roe v Wade decision, crime rates across the country started to plummet. That is, many of the people who would have been reaching their peak criminal age in the 1990s were simply never born. Several states legalised abortion five years before the Supreme Court's ruling and those states enjoyed lower crime rates five years before the rest of the nation.

Few people should be shocked that the majority of abortions come from lower socio-economic areas, where unemployment and drug use rates are high and the need for better welfare ever present. It would be far more palatable for a future fall in crime to come as a result of better welfare, rather than more abortions.

John Clover

North Adelaide, SA

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any thoughts?

I certainly agree with him on this point:

"It would be far more palatable for a future fall in crime to come as a result of better welfare, rather than more abortions."

let's see if we can have a discussion without turning this into the usual shouting match about the rights and wrongs of abortion. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/soapbox.gif" alt="" />

(and please don't shoot the messenger - I'm just as confronted by this information as you probably are - I've never seen it presented in this way before.)

aldona

[Gail]

Well, I suppose that less babies anywhere by any method will mean less people to turn to a life of crime or anything else. That's just logical

[Amelia]

I agree with you Aldona. Abortion is not the focus. This is one area that really gets me riled. All the money our government fritters away on pork and social services continually being cut.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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an irrefutable link between the legalisation of abortion and the drop in crime.

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Starbucks Coffee became popular starting in the late 80's and on into the 1990's. Maybe there's a correlation there, too. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[Dr. Shane]

Bill Bennet got into a lot of trouble talking about this. There does seem to be a coalition between legalized abortion and a reduction in crime. Many of these babies being aborted would be born to single, poor mothers that are not actively religeous. That means babies being raised in poverty with no father or religeous instruction. It isn't a big leap from their to being a criminal.

I have not seen that welfare reduces crime. From what I have seen, it does the opposite. Welfare programs create a sense of entitlement with some people. These people feel justified when they steal from the rich because they feel the world owes them something. In fact, some feel it is wrong for rich people to put up fences and use alarms. They don't think they should even have to go to the effort to steal. Rich people should just give them what they want. Where else would they get that kind of sense of entitlement but from public welfare programs which actually do take from the rich and give to the poor?

[Neil D]

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From what I have seen, it does the opposite. Welfare programs create a sense of entitlement with some people. These people feel justified when they steal from the rich because they feel the world owes them something. In fact, some feel it is wrong for rich people to put up fences and use alarms. They don't think they should even have to go to the effort to steal. Rich people should just give them what they want. Where else would they get that kind of sense of entitlement but from public welfare programs which actually do take from the rich and give to the poor?

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Is this your experience, Shane or is there some science to this?

I have known many welfare people, and of the hords that I have treated, many of which are smokers, there is very little of this attitude among the ones that I have treated.

Put up or clarify, Shane....If you clarify, be prepared to shut up...This attitude is harmful to us as well. It belittles people and causes many to justifably look down on others...This is a poor attitude to have..

[Jeannieb43]

I've never seen the statistics reported from this angle, Aldona, but I think it makes sense. The poor, who are already living on welfare, have no other method of birth control if it's not provided to them by the government--either through welfare or through government medical aid. The wealthy may have just as many "accidents" of conception, but they have the means to pay for abortion--even if it means traveling out of the country.

It's very interesting that the crime rate has dropped during the '90s. I believe it's partly due to better police enforcement; but there's a lot of weight to the argument that some people are born with the "criminal" gene -- and if they're not being born, then of course the population has a lower percentage of criminals.

[Dr. Shane]

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be prepared to shut up...

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This is emotionally, inflamatory language. I hope we can avoid using it in the future.

[Neil D]

You are being challenged, Shane... And your back is up against the wall,....Put up the evidence or quit spewing slanted conservative viewpoints .

[Gerr]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Support for more abortions?

Gerry

[aldona]

No, I don't support the idea of fighting crime with more abortions...I agree with the author that it would be better to see a fall in crime come about through better welfare rather than more abortions.

But it certainly raises questions...

Is it that birth control is not available or affordable enough for those on low incomes or on welfare? (thinking of the patient I saw this week, who is unemployed and on welfare, suffers from a mental illness, and has had 5 abortions.)

Is there something about growing up knowing that one's birth was unwanted and unplanned (even subconsciously, if the parents do not say so directly), that messes with a person's mind in such a way that they are more likely to turn to crime? I seem to recall reading somewhere that Adolf Hitler's mother was an single parent with an unwanted pregnancy, and tried unsuccessfully to find a doctor willing to do an abortion (which was illegal in Germany at that time).

Lots more questions...Not sure how to put them in words...will keep on pondering. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

aldona

[Dr. Shane]

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I don't support the idea of fighting crime with more abortions

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I would hope not. Not only should a person get a jury trial before they are given the death sentence... they should actually have to commit a crime.

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it would be better to see a fall in crime come about through better welfare

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I am not aware of any evidence that welfare reduces crime. The US had its greatest poverty during the Great Depression and it also had one of the lowest crime rates. There were government soup kitchens but no food stamps. Government checks came in exchange of work.

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Is there something about growing up knowing that one's birth was unwanted and unplanned (even subconsciously, if the parents do not say so directly), that messes with a person's mind in such a way that they are more likely to turn to crime?

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I think it comes from being raised without a father and often times no religious training or example in the home. Many, many, MANY, pregnancies are unplanned and unwanted even when the parents are already married.

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which was illegal in Germany at that time

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I believe Hitler was born in Austria.