ChildofChrist Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Quote: The first step to getting help for sin, is to acknowledge it as sin, not explain it away or excuse it Yes, Gail, the first step is to recognize the need. And then not to draw away but to come closer to the throne of God. The Scriptures say, [:"purple"]Be ye perfect.[/] Put on His robe of rightousness and be perfect. Quote Wakan Tanka Kici Un ~~Child of Christ~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 I hope it is not too out of fashion to want to be Holy for He is Holy. It seems that in our posts we want to show more hatred of restrictions rather than love for the holiness and purity of Jesus. Can we be perfect as our Heavenly Father is, or was Jesus just admonishing us with this to pass the moment by? Lets get real people! God will not do something for us if our hearts will not yield the control He needs to have in order to help us. We must be co-laborers with God. This requires human effort. Are we still asking: What must I do to be saved? or has it become: Lord, thank you for saving me so I can go on living as I always wanted. Remember that Jesus not only wants to save us, He wants to change us too. Do we want the right kind of change? Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 wick, Jer 17:9 and Rom 8:7 are the reasons that you hear/read resistance on the overcoming/holy/victory/non sin/ perfection theme. SINFUL TRNITY 1. We're only human 2. Everybody makes mistakes 3. Nobody's perfect -------------------- THESE CLICHES ARE A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY AND IRRESPONSIBILITY. THEY ARE A COPOUT FOR THOSE WHO LOVE SIN, DESIRE TO BE POPULAR, OR ARE INSENSITIVE TO SUFFERING. A TEACHER WHO USES THEM ARE COWARDLY PRAISE CRAVERS AND SEEK POPULARITY OVER APPROVAL BY GOD. THESE CLICHES REDUCE OR NEGATE THE WORK OF THE CROSS IF WE ARE ONLY HUMAN THAN WHAT IS GOD'S BEEF WITH US? IF WE ARE NOT TO STRIVE FOR PERFECTION, THEN WHY STRIVE FOR ANYTHING? THIS NEGATES THE OVERCOMING MESSAGE THAT IS IN VARIOUS WRITING OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. LOOK UP MATURE, PERFECT, SPOT, FAULTLESS, OVERCOME IF WE ARE ONLY HUMAN THEN PETER WAS FULL OF IT WHEN HE WROTE WE ARE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE. THESE CLICHES ARE REPEATED BY THOSE WHO LOVE THE WORLD AND WILL NOT ENTER ETERNAL LIFE. THEY ARE PART OF THE HOST WHO PERPETUATE THE SLIMEY CESSPOOL OF BARBARIANISM AND DEPRAVITY THAT EXISTS IN THE HEARTS OF HUMANS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Romans 12 :2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God. 2 Tim 3:16,17 : All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect James 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 2 Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 2 Cor 13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 1 Cor 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. Phil 2:15 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 2 Pet 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. Jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, Eph 3:19: And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God. Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: 1 Tim 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 1 Tim 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 2 Pet "5": And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; "6": And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; "7": And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. "8": For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Tim 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. Titus 2:12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Eph 5:27 "27": That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;but that it should be holy and without blemish. Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 1 Pet 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; "16": Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. "9": But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. "22": But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 1 Thess 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. 1 Thess 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. "14": Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 1 Cor 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: " 1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith Rom 12::21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Revelation, chapter 2 hes; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, Revelation, chapter 2 hurches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation, chapter 2 s; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, an Revelation, chapter 2 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him Revelation, chapter 3 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raim Revelation, chapter 3 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my Revelation, chapter 3 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne Revelation, chapter 11 them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And t Revelation, chapter 13 e saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kin Revelation, chapter 17 d the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of Revelation, chapter 21 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be 1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. "19": I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. "20": For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. "21": What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. "22": But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 1 Cor 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 1 Pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. 1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. "6": Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. "7": Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Whew! That is quite the post Jimbob. Thanks for the exhaustive case for obedience. Really nice! Lets see em gainsay that! Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 WL.. Sure thing.. I have the long scripture post thing on my computer and call it ..HIGH CALLING.. I don't expect many to even read it all of the way through.. I post it so that some will see that the theme is not composed of just a couple verses.. but is in many places...and quite extensive.. I post it also to show that there are so many places that it shows up that a PASTOR has to choose certain topics to miss it and that is fairly easy to do with the homiletic approach of most pastors today...in and outside of the denomination.. When one teaches books in their ministry they have to exegete those verses and have an explication for them if they are competent. This is one reason when I guest preach, I teach on Jude...it is timely..multifaceted and has Jude 24 for the ones who are brainwashed on defeatism and just going with the churchian flow. The lengthy post of verses have been challenged on this site...there is always a bad taste in some mouths that is the result of a few so called legalistic perfectionists. Much has to do with Jer 17:9 and Rom 8:7 syndrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Quote: Whew! That is quite the post Jimbob. Thanks for the exhaustive case for obedience. Really nice! Lets see em gainsay that! [:"red"] "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone...." [/] John 8:7 KJV [:"red"] "BRETHREN, IF any person is overtaken in misconduct or sin of any sort, you who are spiritual [who are responsive to and controlled by the Spirit] should set him right and restore and reinstate him, without any sense of superiority and with all gentleness, keeping an attentive eye on yourself, lest you should be tempted also. " [/] Galatians 6:1 AMP [:"red"] "You may be saying, "What terrible people you have been talking about!" But you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you do these very same things." [/] Romans 2:1 NLT [:"red"] "Well then, are we Jews better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin." [/]Rom 3:9 NLT [:"red"] "Yes, what joy for those whose sin is no longer counted against them by the Lord."" [/] Rom 4:8 NLT [:"red"] "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." [/] 1 John 1:8 KJV [:"red"] "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." [/] 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV Our standing with God is determined by the grace and mercy of God and is no different for those who feel themselves quite competent to stand before God unashamed, than for those who weep bitterly as they view how short they fall below the glory of God. In fact the only ones left out of the loop as candidates for the kingdom of God are those who hold themselves righteous enough to place others below themselves as rightful heirs of the Kingdom of God. [:"red"] "Then he added, "Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: `I want you to be merciful; I don't want your sacrifices.' For I have come to call sinners, not those who think they are already good enough." [/] Matt 9:13 NLT [:"red"] "He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves and were confident that they were righteous [that they were upright and in right standing with God] and scorned and made nothing of all the rest of men: Two men went up into the temple [enclosure] to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee took his stand ostentatiously and began to pray thus before and with himself: God, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men--extortioners (robbers), swindlers [unrighteous in heart and life], adulterers--or even like this tax collector here. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain. But the tax collector, [merely] standing at a distance, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but kept striking his breast, saying, O God, be favorable (be gracious, be merciful) to me, the especially wicked sinner that I am! I tell you, this man went down to his home justified (forgiven and made upright and in right standing with God), rather than the other man; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted." [/] Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Life, Thanks for the humbling post. Obviously a person would have no reason to even approach obedience without receiving grace and mercy. Noone is going to enter heaven with their own meritorious works right? But obedience after having received the truth is important too right? God wants us changed sinners not presumptuously following religious liars and the lies they tell, downplaying the necessity of holiness. Be ye holy for He is holy. Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 LHC, What moved you to reply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Quote: Life, Thanks for the humbling post. Obviously a person would have no reason to even approach obedience without receiving grace and mercy. No one is going to enter heaven with their own meritorious works right? But obedience after having received the truth is important too right? God wants us changed sinners not presumptuously following religious liars and the lies they tell, downplaying the necessity of holiness. Be ye holy for He is holy. Those texts were not meant to do anything by me that the Holy Spirit did not want to be accomplished. If they were humbling to you, you can probably number yourself in the minority of religiously accomplished individuals who do not place their standing with God based on their knowledge of the Scripture. That knowledge sometimes has nothing to do with love by the one quoting, for the individuals they (the scriptures) are meant to influence. [:"red"] "For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away." [/] 1 Cor 13:9,10 However I definitely agree with you about the importance of obedience to the instruction our Father gives us. It just is not very often made clear that the reason for that obedience is not that we might be saved, for Jesus has already given us that gift. [:"red"] "He that has the Son, has life." [/] But obedience is rather that we might honor our Lord through the rewards given us for the acts of righteousness that lead others to receive Him as Lord. And those rewards last eternally, which honors our Father just that much more, not to mention the joy it gives Him to see us reap the rewards of righteousness accomplished in our lives, albeit by Him. [:"red"] "...apart from Me you can do nothing" [/] John 15:5 [:"red"] "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. " [/] 1 Cor 5:10 NKJV Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Quote: LHC, What moved you to reply? Probably more than one reason, not all that would be that righteous. Maybe you might find one in my answer to wicklunds. Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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