Problems In The White Community

[Woody]

Taylor ... You said ...

"I travel by plane alot and it matters not how many people they are currently "frisking" in the airport, I am nearly 100% of the time pulled out of the line and "frisked". I have no "rating" to have them pull me over..I think that perhaps they think I look too "dark" or maybe "middle eastern" when the only dark part of me is my hair and eyes. I don't mind airports being safe, and haveing to go through it. My point is that their "profiling" can't be as random as they would like everyone to believe. I feel for anyone daker than myself as they must really feel this suspicion!

Just my experience "

/

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Taylor ... On behalf of America .... I would like to apologize to you for the inconvience you have and will experience.

It just so happens that I believe strongly in "profiling". I would call it intelligent security. Someone has to pay the price. And I guess it has to be you. The alternative is to spend trillions more on security and HOLD up ALL passengers for tighter security . Then all the old white grandmothers in wheelchairs will have to go through what you have outlined.

Give me a break. I would rather have intelligent security than MASS security for all. Can you imagine all the lines at the airport if we all had to go through what you do.

The terrorists meet a certain profile and to make our security deal with those outside the paramenters of that profile seems crazy to me. Like I said ... I apologize to you that you happen to meet the profile. But either someone has to meet it or we all do.

I am also very dark. I can meet the profile. But, I do not complain. I am glad for it because it means they are using our security money wisely.

And I want to be safe when I travel.

[Woody]

Let me say one more thing why I believe in a color blind society.

Just because you have a skin color different than mine ... doesn't entitle you to have others respect you and your culture more.

I would propose that we all have different cultures and need the same respect and it doesn't matter the color of your skin. WE all need value and respect for our culture and who we are.

I happen to look middle eastern. But that is not my culture.While I am willing to go through the problems of security at airports . I don't want anyone to judge me on my looks. The color of my skin is not my identity. I would prefer a color blind society that accepted all no matter what the skin color. But, when it comes to security ... there has to be some judgment based on the profile such as skin color.

[Taylor]

I don't mind being frisked. I just think that dangerous people don't all come with one skin color so I actually find it amusing. I don't think there is anything about me that looks mean or dangerous. I have no record of any kind, and certainly not one that would raise any suspicion. I have never felt anger at being frisked, though it has made me almost miss my plane a couple of times for having to wait for them to frisk me when there were already other delays beyond my controll (such as the time I got to the airport 4 hours early for a domestic flight out of Florida...only to wait in line for 3.75 hours of that time due to cruise ships having come in with gobbs of people who were now flying home.)

What bugs me, I guess, is what appears to be ignoring of "dangerous" or at least "strange" looking people who are "whiter" and yet pulling over mainly darker people. I think that if they have a security question about someone they shouldn't hesitate to pull them over because absolutely we need to be safe, but I have seen exceedingly "drugged out" appearing people who are acting bizzare but who are blond and very fair skinned but they aren't always pulled out of line.

What is hard is when you see someone who is "darker" who also looks suspicios or is acting bizarre if you do pull them out of line they will probably be highly offended thinking it is racial discrimination. And at times I am sure it is just that..plain ugly prejudice. However if you are acting strange you are acting strange no matter your color...you should be checked out.

I just find my situation amusing and I maintain that frisking isn't as random as the government wants you to believe. I do, however, appreciate the government doing much more to keep us safe in airplanes!

[John317]

John 317 ... You did a very wise thing to hide your educated white face. But , I hope you are not suggesting that your wife is not as sane as you are. ??? I guess that if your wife is Mexican ... they may feel she needs the help of the sane white people. Yuck. All sterotypes are bad even if it means you get more aid.

Some places that offer financial help discriminate against whites unless the white person has an obvious reason for not being able to find other means of support. The nurse meant that if they saw that my wife was married to a white person who was able to support her, they would probably not give her the financial aid. I wasn't suprised at this; what suprised me was that the nurse came right out and said it. I'm glad she did, though, because otherwise I would have gone in with my wife when she applied for the aid, and therefore I am sure she wouldn't have gotten it.

My 18 year old daughter told me there is lots of financial aid available to her because she is considered "hispanic," whereas if she was "white" like me some of those places wouldn't give it to her. A lot of the grants are available only for members of a minority. I'm glad my daughter can get them easily; it's just that I think whites should have an equal chance to get them. As it is, I had to drop out of Pasadena Art Center/College of Design because I couldn't get a grant until my second year.

[John317]

My wife messed up her hand and went to a doctor in Mexico with a friend. They charged her $4.50 for the doctor's visit. The next day I went back with her to get a note for her employer and they told me it would cost $70 for the note!

So true! My wife and kids go regularly to a doctor and dentist in Mexico. You can get your teeth cleaned if you're Mexican for $10.00, whereas in the US it costs about $150.00. Also, dental work by an American dentist that costs $14,000 will cost you about $1,000 in Mexico. But if you go in by yourself and they see you are a caucasion American with a job here, don't be surpised if they charge you more than they do a Mexican national. It's not entirely a matter of race or nationality, though, because doctors in Mexico have been known to try to charge you extra if they think you are a Mexican living and working in the United States.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

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I do hope that our nation can achieve the goal of MLK which was a color blind society.

Redwood

That would be like looking a flowers and saying they're all the same. That is neither realistic nor wise, IMHO. It is not the differences in color that needs to disappear; it is the prejudice against a certain color that needs to be eliminated. If the variety of colors in nature makes for a more interesting & beautiful world, why can we not celebrate the same variety of colors in people?

Gerry

You apparently have never heard MLK. I was referring to his speeches. You ought to listen to them sometime. He promoted the idea that we would all be equal and the color of ones skin would not matter and that is what I was referring to. Perhaps you don't agree with MLK and that is fine.

Yes, Martin Luther King said his dream was that one day people would be judged not on the basis of the color of their skin but on the basis of the content of their characters. I like that. I am quite willing to give people of all races time to demonstrate their character-- or lack thereof-- before I draw any conclusions about them.

With me it's not a question at all of whether all the races of people are the same. They are not. I don't want them to be the same, either. Personally I like variety and would consider the world a boring place indeed without it. I think God must like the variety too. I think one of the major problems between the races-- especially in the United States-- is due to people being told that the differences between the races are ONLY skin-deep. I don't believe it's only a matter of skin color. But we ought to respect and love each other because of the differences and not expect that those of one race or color or nationality should be exactly like those of another race or nationality. I am not necessarity referring to innate or inborn differences, although I believe those also exist; most of the differences are no doubt due to the culture and environment.

Being "color blind" does not mean, of course, that people do not notice color but it is rather that no one is to be mistreated or discrimated against on the basis of his/her skin color. It seems, sad to say, that we have a long way to go before our society, and even our beloved SDA church, reaches that point.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't have a racial bone in my body but that doesn't mean that racial sterotypes and statistics haven't impacted the way I think (but not the way I act.) For example, while in Atlanta I had to use the subway and I was the only white person in my car. Some guys were eyeing me up and down and I started to feel uneasy. However I struck up a conversation with the guy sitting next to me and was pleasantly surprised to discover he was an ordained pastor.

[John317]

Maybe this is a problem....

Hi Lazarus' date='

There are really just as many black gays or black men who like sex with other males as there are among whites. The difference is that among blacks it's usually something you try to hide. There can be very serious negative social consequences for being a gay black man in the black community. The black community is OK with dominant black males but it has serious problems with feminine, passive blacks. It's just not true that whites produce more gays than other races. The "black community" has as many gays and bisexuals in it but they refuse to acknowledge it.

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In the hospital where I worked as a chaplain we had an observtion we made. If its a shooting its a black guy, if its a stabbing its Spanish, if its a suicide its a white guy. Why traditionally have white people killed themselves more often than the rest of the population.

The suicide rate for whites between 7-17 is nearly twice that of black Asian youth.

78% of serial killers are white.

Why are white men so intimidated by black men? Its seems like every white man I meet is afraid of a black man.

I'm not afraid of black men. I've slept with them in dark places such as train yards and box cars and walked among them at midnight on skid row in Los Angeles. But it can be dangerous. One threatened to shoot me in the Colton train yards and a few months later this same black man, called "Cuban Boy", actually did shoot a man to death in the same box car. He did 7 years for involuntary manslaughter because the jury believed his lie that he did it accidentally while showing the gay white guy his long barrel twenty-two revolver. The truth is this black guy enjoyed forcing white gays into sex and then either beating them up or shooting them.

White guys are sometimes afraid of black guys because blacks have a reputation for stealing and being thugs. Of course most blacks are not robbers and thugs, but the truth is there is a higher percentage of blacks who are. I assume we don't have to review in detail the facts about the number of blacks in the general population compared to the number of blacks in prisons for violent crimes. Most violent offenders aren't even caught and much violent crime is not even reported.

By the way, I used to hang with some pretty violent black friends of mine when I was in the army. Three of them were thug types-- one from LA, one from Washington, D.C., and another from Saint Louis. I was with them in downtown El Paso when they forced a white guy to give them his money. Two of them were dischanged for being involved in a race riot on the base. I watched one beat up a white guy with a broom stick. Do white guys do these kinds of things? Of course, but a far larger percent of the black population is involved in these kinds of offences as well as others. That is why in some areas of the United States, almost 50% of the black men are either in prison or on probabtion. (There was a good discussion among blacks about this on C-SPAN the other day.) That is also why I supervise one white kid, 7 blacks, and 3 hispanics at a jail-like facility. (1 hispanic was discharged yesterday!) I see lots of black kids who brag about being a pimp and a thug, but I don't remember once hearing a white kid brag about that.

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What's with the shooting 4/5 people at work, school? Columbine etc.

Rate of child abuse by race:

White = 51%

African American = 25%

Hispanic = 15%

American Indian/Alaska Natives = 2%

Asian/Pacific Islanders = 1%

These rates aren't necessarily accurate. There are good reasons to believe they're not right. Whites are more likely to report abuse. Many such things happen among blacks and hispanics without being reported. I reported the hispanic husband of a friend of my wife's for child abuse and he did over a year in jail for abusing his little girl. It was the best thing that could happen to him. He's doing a lot better now, but he and his wife still don't know who reported him to the authorities and my wife and I aren't about to tell them. (He was putting feces in his little girl's hair for not obeying him and also spanking her legs with a heavy wooden spoon. This was after the school had reported him twice and he'd been placed on probation for doing similar things before.)

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Why are white victims of sexual abuse generally younger?

There are proportionally more whites arrested for incest offences is higher than that of than blacks/asians.

Here's a silly one....! What about the two World Wars we've had? I think these were all started by white people.

That is true as far as Europe is concerned, but the wars were also ended mostly by whites. Whites were willing to sacrifice themselves by the millions in order to stop the wars. If Hitler had won-- and he came close to winning-- he would have gassed millions of blacks just like he had done to the Jews.

The Pacific war was started by Japan, who would have taken over all of Asia except they were stopped and turned back mostly by white people.

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Last and not least. Why is there a penchant among some whites towards white supremacy? Neo-Nazi's, KKK and others. Why is there this need among white in America and across Europe to present themselves as superior. [/quote']

It's a very small percent of people who participate in these things. They are the white counterpart of the Black Muslims or the Black Panthers. They feel that their rights as whites are threatened and they believe that blacks and other minorities are threatening the purity and culture of the white race. They feel that whites don't get enough protection from the government agencies. They don't like black men "stealing" "their white women." They don't like the fact that black gangs distribute so many drugs and commit so much crime without the government seeming to do much about it. They don't like the fact, either, that in prison a white person has to get together with other whites if he doesn't want to be "punked" or sexually abused by blacks. In prison you can generally only count on people of your own race to protect you.

I denounce and condemn any violence done by one race against another, but I can understand the concerns of both the blacks and the whites as well as the hispanics. I have sympathies with all three groups, actually. I don't feel sympathy for the Neo-Nazi's or KKK, but I think some of their concerns are valid. They are definitely going about trying to solve problems in the wrong way, however, just as are the Black Muslims and the New Black Panthers.

[John317]

I don't have a racial bone in my body but that doesn't mean that racial sterotypes and statistics haven't impacted the way I think (but not the way I act.) For example, while in Atlanta I had to use the subway and I was the only white person in my car. Some guys were eyeing me up and down and I started to feel uneasy. However I struck up a conversation with the guy sitting next to me and was pleasantly surprised to discover he was an ordained pastor.

Good for you, Shane. You did a wise thing to find someone to talk to.

I go to a lot of places where I probably shouldn't go if I was thinking like most white guys, and I am sometimes surprised by the friendliness of blacks I meet. They sometimes try to protect me by telling me where not to go but I go there anyway. I've run into some very bad, unfriendly ones too, but so far my instincts and my legs have stood me in good stead.

You can see some of my pictures on ClubAd that have resulted from going to some of those places, such as skid row in central LA.

[Gerr]

I agree with you in general outline, Gerry, but I think also what needs to disappear is the use of colour as a shorthand for socioeconomic status. I mean, in the examples cited on the previous page, I don't think we'd have any real objection to doctors being willing to provide their services more cheaply to poor people than to rich people. That kind of self-sacrifice on the part of doctors is laudable. But when the colour of the patient's skin becomes a proxy for their wealth, all sorts of inequities result. Same with admissions, employment and so on.

Until I sold my practice it was my policy over the years to give discounts to poor people who neither could pay nor had insurance, and on a number of occasions not even charged anything no matter what the color. I know many physicians do the same. Right now I am working for two rural clinics that serve mostly the indigents. They don't pay anywhere what I could/would otherwise get elsewhere.

Gerry

[Gerr]

I have heard MLK speak, but not to all his speeches/sermons.

Gerry

[Gerr]

I am a minority and have no problem with profiling. If I get mugged 10x and 8 out of 10 are by green people, who would I be wary of?

Gerry

[lazarus]

There are really just as many black gays or black men who like sex with other males as there are among whites. The difference is that among blacks it's usually something you try to hide.

what the basis for these statements? Do you have a survey etc?

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. Whites are more likely to report abuse.

This true but they are more likely to report the abuse of minorities NOT whites!

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Here's a silly one....! What about the two World Wars we've had? I think these were all started by white people.

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That is true as far as Europe is concerned, but the wars were also ended mostly by whites. Whites were willing to sacrifice themselves by the millions in order to stop the wars.

They were started mostly by whites too! LOL

Some of the things I posted had no real basis, they were just perceptions that some people have. I don't believe them all. Some things were well know facts.

Does the white community have any real problems that are particularly prevelant?

What is most interesting though is that the way you chose to refute them is to point to similar problems in other communities, mainly black! How about discussiing the solutions to the problems in the white community.

This has been an interesting threat that has shown that whites do the very same thing that they accuse blacks of doing.

[lazarus]

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I don't feel sympathy for the Neo-Nazi's or KKK, but I think some of their concerns are valid.

for example......?

[Kountzer]

the thread that just won't die...

[Bravus]

Heh, maybe one problem in the white community is excessive internet argumentation rather than, you know, actually doing stuff. I'll cop to that one.

[cricket]

Um...that's a problem with many Internet-capable communities: not just the "White" community (again, whatever and wherever that is).

[Bravus]

D'oh! You're right again!

[Dr. Shane]

Yet Lazarus' point is well taken. Why do we (the white community) have to talk about other races when we talk about ourselves.

Let's say that a family problem my family has is watching too much TV, or overeating, or not spending enough time together. When I bring up such a problem the other members of the family could exclaiim that many of our neighbors have the same problem. SO??? So what if they do? That doesn't mean it isn't a problem that our family doesn't have to deal with.

So what if the hispanic, black or asian communites also struggle with the same issues? That doesn't mean it isn't an issue that the white community doesn't have to deal with.

[Bravus]

True - but wasn't it Laz who posted the long list of 'more gays in white than black' and a whole heap of other comparisons? Gotta be consistent in both directions.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

There are really just as many black gays or black men who like sex with other males as there are among whites. The difference is that among blacks it's usually something you try to hide.

what the basis for these statements? Do you have a survey etc?

Serveys and studies show that homosexuality occurs in all the races of mankind at about the same rate in all cultures, from China to Japan, from Africa to India, and from Europe to South America. (I'm also going by about 30 years personal experience with black men. In the past I've had several [3] long-term relationships with black men. God has given me victory over these things and I pray every day that He will give me strength and power to keep me faithful to Him. I still consider myself gay but I don't live that lifestyle any more.)

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. Whites are more likely to report abuse.

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This true but they are more likely to report the abuse of minorities NOT whites!

Whites trust the police a lot more so they naturally are more willing to report abuse to the authorities. Both blacks and hispanics are generally more confrontational and therefore do not report to the police as readily as do whites. Blacks and hispanics are more likely to confront and fight before anything is reported to the police.

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Here's a silly one....! What about the two World Wars we've had? I think these were all started by white people.

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That is true as far as Europe is concerned, but the wars were also ended mostly by whites. Whites were willing to sacrifice themselves by the millions in order to stop the wars.

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They were started mostly by whites too! LOL

OK, Laz, you asked for this: (please don't take offense here; I don't mean it personally) I am not defending whites for starting wars, but look at it this way: blacks have not produced any great generals or great scientists or great weapons with which to fight a World War. Nor does Africa have any national causes that could start a WW. So the reason blacks have not started a World War is not for want of trying but for want of opportunity and technological capability. Blacks couldn't start a WW. Africa has been involved in tribes slaughtering each other since about the beginning of time but they just can't successfully attack anyone beyond their own continent. Also, when Africans fight and kill each other, no one really cares or hears of it or takes it seriously. After all, the weapons they use are all obsolete and ancient except for those they get from white people.

By the way, do you think whites have an obligation to go to the rescue of Africans when they fight and enslave each other and are dying of AIDS? Why does Africa have so many profound and seemingly unsolvable problems? Can't Africans take care of their own problems?

I do favor Amercan aid to Africa and also favor Americans and Europeans helping Africans in every way possible. I know whites caused a lot of the current problems in Africa today. I look forward some day soon to visiting Kenya and West Africa.

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Some of the things I posted had no real basis, they were just perceptions that some people have. I don't believe them all. Some things were well know facts.

I thought as much. I didn't think you believed them. It's the same as I do here, sometimes I say things that I have heard because I think they are good points to bring up but not because I am convinced they are true.

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Does the white community have any real problems that are particularly prevelant?

Actually yes it does. I think we whites have problems more than others with gambling addiction, fraud, white collar crime, and sex with children. Also most, but by no means all, serial killings are done by whites. (I personally believe people that have sex with children ought to be executed. I've seen how that sort of crime can ruin someone's life. I also favor executing serial murderers.)

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What is most interesting though is that the way you chose to refute them is to point to similar problems in other communities, mainly black! How about discussiing the solutions to the problems in the white community.

This has been an interesting threat

What threat?

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that has shown that whites do the very same thing that they accuse blacks of doing.

I can agree with you here. We're all brothers, sons of Adam, all fundamentally the same.

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

There are really just as many black gays or black men who like sex with other males as there are among whites. The difference is that among blacks it's usually something you try to hide.

what the basis for these statements? Do you have a survey etc?

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Serveys and studies show that homosexuality occurs in all the races of mankind at about the same rate in all cultures,

sorry to be pedantic but which survey's, which, where?

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Whites trust the police a lot more so they naturally are more willing to report abuse to the authorities.

That wasn't my point. A white/doctor or nurse is more likely to report the suspected abuse of minority patients than white patients.

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Both blacks and hispanics are generally more confrontational.

Whats the basis for such a wild statement?

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Blacks and hispanics are more likely to confront and fight before anything is reported to the police.

Again, whats the basis for this ridiculous statement?

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OK, Laz, you asked for this: (please don't take offense here; I don't mean it personally) I am not defending whites for starting wars

Oh but you are!

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but look at it this way: blacks have not produced any great generals or great scientists or great weapons with which to fight a World War. Nor does Africa have any national causes that could start a WW. So the reason blacks have not started a World War is not for want of trying but for want of opportunity and technological capability. Blacks couldn't start a WW. Africa has been involved in tribes slaughtering each other since about the beginning of time but they just can't successfully attack anyone beyond their own continent. Also, when Africans fight and kill each other, no one really cares or hears of it or takes it seriously. After all, the weapons they use are all obsolete and ancient except for those they get from white people.

I guess Germans can take comfort in the fact they were able to be so efficient in killing so many Jews. Those Africans are so backward that they could have only killed about 2,000. We did 6 million! Oh and they didn't have th technology to gas them and torture them the way we did. They would have only managed to do it with spears!

I guess wiping out 100,000 Japanese in seconds. It would have taken Africans years to kill so many Japanese if they could kill any at all.

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By the way, do you think whites have an obligation to go to the rescue of Africans when they fight and enslave each other and are dying of AIDS? Why does Africa have so many profound and seemingly unsolvable problems? Can't Africans take care of their own problems?

Of course there is no obligation. Its clear that we just find it so hard to talk about the white community without pointing out the negative aspects of the black community. Its like a reflex action. Perhaps its a defense mechanism. Maybe it a cultural aspect of white society, theres always some group that worse than us. Its the attitude that just won't die.......like this thread I suppose!

[John317]

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Whites trust the police a lot more so they naturally are more willing to report abuse to the authorities.

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That wasn't my point. A white/doctor or nurse is more likely to report the suspected abuse of minority patients than white patients.

According to which survey?

[lazarus]

There are a number of links for this study...

Children's Hospital between 1994 and 2000. PHILADELPHIA --

Minority children are more likely to be evaluated for physical abuse and reported to authorities than white children with comparable injuries, say researchers who studied hospital records at an urban pediatric hospital. Researchers at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia found that African-American and Latino toddlers with accidental injuries were over five times more likely than Caucasian toddlers to receive a skeletal survey, an examination ordered when a physician suspects abuse.

[John317]

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Both blacks and hispanics are generally more confrontational.

Whats the basis for such a wild statement?

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Blacks and hispanics are more likely to confront and fight before anything is reported to the police.

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Again, whats the basis for this ridiculous statement?

People who work as guards at schools where there is a history of racial violence. I saw this statement quoted only a short while back in a newspaper by one supervisor of guards at a high school in Riverside County. I have also found that it coincides with my personal experience of 20 years working in an institution where we deal with youth of various races that often get into confrontations with each other. I am the father of two hispanic girls and my oldest, age 18, who just graduated from high school, also says that the blacks and hispanic kids at her school confront one another all the time before reporting incidents, whereas white kids are more likely to report things without first confronting.