Bush's new strategy - the march of folly

[Woody]

Bevin is right ... Freedom in this world is an expensive matter.

[Dr. Shane]

Many believe there is a civil war going on in Iraq between the Shiites and the Sunnis and I would have to agree with that. Of course some don't want to call it that but a rose by any other name is still a rose. We have two religious groups killing each other and the government is unable to control it.

This is the White House's position in November:

Quote:

While the situation on the ground is very serious, neither Prime Minister Maliki nor we believe that Iraq is in a civil war. The violence is largely centered around Baghdad, and Baghdad security and the increased training of Iraqi security forces is at the top of the agenda when President Bush and Prime Minister Maliki meet later this week in Jordan.

Now some far-left radicals actually consider the government itself to be one of the factions in the civil war. These radicals claim the Iraqi government is just a US puppet and thus has no moral authority in Iraq and is thus just another fighting faction like the Shiites and Sunnis. Of course this is the same propoganda that the terrorists are trying to spread. They want to ignore the fact the government was democratically elected and focus on the fact that it is supported by the US government. I don't see that including the democratically-elected government in Iraq as a faction in the civil war is appropriate or productive.

[lazarus]

Now some far-left radicals actually consider the government itself to be one of the factions in the civil war. These radicals claim the Iraqi government is just a US puppet and thus has no moral authority in Iraq and is thus just another fighting faction like the Shiites and Sunnis. Of course this is the same propoganda that the terrorists are trying to spread. They want to ignore the fact the government was democratically elected and focus on the fact that it is supported by the US government. I don't see that including the democratically-elected government in Iraq as a faction in the civil war is appropriate or productive.

Shane, I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here. Is this a semantic point? Cleary the shite militias are very often operating with the Maliki government forces. Its obvious that problem in Iraq is not just Sunni v Shia but Sunni v US v Al Qaeda v shia-government forces v sunni v etc.etc. Its complicated. Whether you want to use the word faction or not the government is a key player in the civil war and by no means a neutral one.

[lazarus]

By the way, Maliki doesn't even get to pick his own general in the new Bush stratergy.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/13/iraq.main.ap/index.html

....First among the candidates was Lt. Gen. Mohan al-Freiji, but he was quickly vetoed by American officials.

Gambar was second choice after the Americans blackballed al-Freiji, the generals said. Both al-Freiji and Gambar are Shiite Muslims......

[Dr. Shane]

In Los Angles there are warring gangs. There are also corrupt police officers and corrupt politicians in Los Angeles. So if we were to call Los Angles a civil war (on a small scale), would we include the police department as one of the factions? Certainly the police department is a key player in Los Angeles.

[lazarus]

I dont think you can draw useful analogy with that example. The conditions are quite different.

The use of the word faction implies that the Maliki government does not have clean hands in the whole affair. I believe the US government has alluded to this in some of leaked memos.

[Dr. Shane]

Notice when the mainstream press talks about civil war in Iraq they do not include the government as one of the factions.

BBC 2/23/06

Quote:

A civil war in Iraq would destroy the chances of the elected central government, which will be led and dominated by Shias when eventually it is formed.

MSNBC 8/14/06

Quote:

The administration hasn't made its definition of full-blown civil war explicit. But in March, when Iraq's former prime minister Ayad Allawi said the country was already fighting a civil war, Bush disagreed, noting the existence of Iraq's nonsectarian Army and government.

Washington Post 11/27/06

Quote:

"This is what we're talking about. We're talking about Sunni neighborhoods shelling Shia neighborhoods, and Shia neighborhoods shelling back.

"We're having Sunni communities dig fighting positions to protect their streets. We're seeing Sunni extremists plunging car bombs into heavily-populated Shia marketplaces. We're seeing institutionalized Shia death squads in legitimate police and national police commando uniforms going in, systematically, to Sunni homes in the middle of the night and dragging them out, never to be seen again.

NY Times 11/28/06

Quote:

As the cycle of violence continues, officials outside the United States are warning that Iraq is verging on civil war. King Abdullah II of Jordan told ABC News on Tuesday that “something dramatic” must be done, and Kofi Annan, the United Nations secretary general, told reporters on Monday that the region would face civil war “unless something is done drastically and urgently to arrest the deteriorating situation.”

So the mainstream media is portraiting the situation as a conflict between Shiite killers, that are supported in part by Iran, and Shiia killers, that are supported in part by al Qeada. This with corrupt police tossed into the mix and a government that is not strong enough to maintain any order. I have not seen any mainstream media reports out there that consider the democratically-elected government as being a faction in the civil war like the Shiite and Shiia killers are.

[Dr. Shane]

The Maliki government is what is there and was democratically elected. I know it wasn't the US's first choice.

The Mexican government along with many others don't have clean hands but we have to work with what is there.

BTW: some will say the LAPD doesn't have clean hands either.