Neil D Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 Robert said Quote: My point is that "evil" is not limited to certain sins. We are all evil in the eyes of the spirit of God's law. However, that does not deny growth, and that growth should include Christian women ceasing from abortion as birth control. This should be true. Reality shows that it is not. David McQueen wrote Quote: Abortion is a very sensitive issue for those who have either indirectly or directly been affected by it. I have found that through our own experience coupled with our faith in God our approach has provided support to many, who like ourselves, knew not where to turn. A life was taken, call it murder or whatever adverb you will, and as a party to that much reconciliation had to be made with God. Having moved on from there the strength for me comes more in being there for others who need a non-judgemental person to listen first and then share with them all the circumstances that can arise in such a scenario, and basically to be there for them no matter what decision they take. I find that so much more rewarding in my walk than arguing for pros and cons with people. But then that's just my walk. Jesus knows. I know of no better words on this issue. Supporting the walk is a better reality than being confrontational. Even if you do not agree with the decisions of the individual, the doors of communication remain open if you support thier decision. If the doors of communication remain open, you can influence thier decision(s). And you might just save a life in the process.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted August 28, 2004 Administrators Share Posted August 28, 2004 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Abortion is a very sensitive issue for those who have either indirectly or directly been affected by it. .............. the strength for me comes more in being there for others who need a non-judgemental person to listen first and then share with them all the circumstances that can arise in such a scenario, and basically to be there for them no matter what decision they take. I find that so much more rewarding in my walk than arguing for pros and cons with people. But then that's just my walk. Jesus knows. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Well said David. Having never been in that situation, I can only listen and learn from those who have been through the experience. I know that God can use unfortunate incidents to his glory, and you and Fifi appear to be living examples of just that. Courage! Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Isn't that a contradiction? Isn't "murder" evil? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> We are all evil in a Biblical sense of the word. My point was that many of the women that abort their children do so with encouragement from those with a pro-abortion agenda. Sister Tealeaves mentioned that very few of the women who visit her clinic abort after seeing their children on an ultrasound machine. That is the same thing the volunteers at our local pregnancy crisis center tell me. Yet many of those women would have aborted if instead of going to a Christian pregnancy crisis center, they went to a Planned Parenthood clinic. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Quote: Seperation of church and state can be summed up like this: No official state church is established No requirement of church membership to hold office Free exercise of religion is allowed Yes, I know this was A LONG WHILE ago in this discussion but to be perfectly honest - despite the fact that there are over 12 pages of discussion since I was here last I do not see that the issue has progressed at all. So, firstly I would just like to ask - how many Americans share Shane's extraordinarily narrow understanding of the Principle of the Separation of Church and State? For a Country that exspouse Freedom and Liberty to the extent of the USA I find it amazing that any of it's citizens could take the view that the idea of Separation of Church and State is limited to the 3 points of Shane's above. Surely the American Judiciary does not share this view. I will have to do some research on this myself. Because if in fact the Judiciary of the USA hold a similar point of view then all I can say is "Good Luck my American friends because you are going to need it!". The interpretation of this ideal by Shane doesn't just leave the door open for abuse it actually encourages it! And the ONLY reason anyone would feel comfortable with this point of view is if you felt your viewpoint was in the majority! I don't think Shane would be so cavalier in his interpretation if um ... say Islam was the Major religion of the USA and Christianity was a minority! The reason you don't want to start making Legislation based on Religious ( note I said "Religious" NOT "Moral" there IS a difference) ideals is because the majority religious beliefs ebb and flow, even WITHIN any given religion (note how your OWN Church's stand on certain issues has changed over time) and are NOT always consistent with current moral/social ideals and behaviour. That is, RELIGIOUS IDEALS BY DEFINITION ARE IRRATIONAL and are therefore unsuitable to be used as guides for State Legislation. I know that no one here is really interested in a debate on this subject that is rooted in rationality (my other posts have been basically ignored) so I am merely posting this for my own peace of mind. Abortion should NOT be tackled as a Religious issue anymore than Taxation and if you do wish to bicker over whose interpretation of ambiguous pieces of scripture is correct then surely that debate should be had over in Theology? Quote "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" SAMUEL JOHNSON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Surely the American Judiciary does not share this view. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> It did hold this view for nearly 200 years. That is why America is so rich with religious tradition. All around this nation you will find relgious monuments. Our money itself bares the name of God. One of the reason Catholic schools use to be so well attended by Catholics is because public schools were ran by Protestants. Another reason SDAs were so big on education. Many reading books for elementary students contained Bible verses prior to the 1960s. Read our Constitutional ammendment which gives us religious liberty. </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for redress of grievances. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> No mention of the word "seperation", "church" or "state". Our Constitution simply says the government cannot establish religion or prohibit the excersize thereof. In recent ruling the courts have been defining more and more things as violating the establishment clause. Yet such things were not considered to be establishing religion by our founders 250 years ago. There is a different between respecting religion and establishing religion. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Sister Tealeaves mentioned that very few of the women who visit her clinic abort after seeing their children on an ultrasound machine. That is the same thing the volunteers at our local pregnancy crisis center tell me. Yet many of those women would have aborted if instead of going to a Christian pregnancy crisis center, they went to a Planned Parenthood clinic. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I heard on the radio the other day that our local Pregnancy Crisis Center saved 152 babies from abortion last year. While they served nearly 2,000 pregnant women, there were 152 that decided to have an abortion that we convinced not to do so by the center. These Pregnancy Crisis Centers are all over the country. They help pregnant women with medical issues, help them get government assistance if needed, help them with adoption if wanted and also provide post-abortion counseling for those that have abortions and regret it. They can also use help. If you have anything for babies they can usually find a young mother that needs it. Or if you want to donate infant clothing, diapers or cash. This is a fantastic ministry. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 A Luciferian priest once told me that abortion clinics are temples to Satan because of the blood spilled there. The blood of the unborn is supposed to be the most powerful magickal aid available to humanity. What made it surreal for me was he honestly thought he was "better than that" because he worshipped Lucifer rather than Satan. He had grown "past all that". Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Abortion of a healthy baby by a healthy mother is a black and white issue...it is based on selfishness (sin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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