"Let the reader understand"

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

This is a question...well..two questions.. about what Jesus said as recorded in Matthew:

Quote:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--

1. What is 'the abomination that causes desolation'?

2. And why does Jesus particularly single out the prophet Daniel as being one that the reader(s) should understand? I don't think Jesus made such a strong point of the people understanding any of the other prophets, did He? Even though the other prophets, like Isaiah or Ezekiel, had important things to say...

[Gail]

I've always understood the abomination of desolation to be the counterfeit sacrificial system that is set up to replace Christ's death and ministry in Heaven as our High Priest.

It is a desolating system because it removes our hope in Christ to men equal to ourselves. It is an abomination and a desolating influence

[phkrause]

I don't think he was just single out Daniel more than any other prophet. The reason for that answer was to a direct question from the apostles, asking about some signs about when certain things where to take place. As far as the abomination I think that refers to the Romans sacrificing a pig on the altar in the temple. Not positive if that is correct. Maybe someone else has a better answer.

pkrause

[Woody]

Quote:

1. What is 'the abomination that causes desolation'?

I think it may have been the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans and the resulting placement of pagan idols and symbols.

[David Koot]

The term does occur a couple of times, with different applications. Daniel's use of it refers to the usurpation of Christ's sacrificial and mediatorial ministry by the man of sin, instuted by the papacy. Jesus uses the term with two applications. The first application is to the Roman occupation of Jerusalem, and the siege. At some point during that time (I don't recall exactly) Roman soldiers indeed desecrated the Holy Place of the temple and, as I recall, set up their standards there. The second application of Mt. 24 is to endtime events. The abomnination that makes desolate refers then to the enforcement of religious practice by the State, to command Sunday observance and the recognition of the pope.

Dave

[skyblue888]

This is a question...well..two questions.. about what Jesus said as recorded in Matthew:

Quote:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--

1. What is 'the abomination that causes desolation'?

*******************************************************

Mrs. White, in the book The Great Controversy, makes a first application of this verse to the Jewish people: "When the idolatrous standards of the Romans should be set up in the holy ground, which extended some furlongs outside the city walls, then the followers of Christ were to find safety in flight. When the warning sign should be seen, those who would escape must make no delay. Throughout the land of Judea, as well as in Jerusalem itself, the signal for flight must be immediately obeyed." p.26.

This took place in A.D.66 when the Romans surrounded the city of Jerusalem. See G.C. p.30,31. The true disciples of Christ fled from Judea and from Jerusalem. So when the city was destroyed by the Romans in A.D.70 "not one Christian perished in the destruction of Jerusalem." The Great Controversy, p.30. They had all fled because they had obeyed the signal!

Now as to the last days in which we are living, the warning given by Jesus Himself is addressed to Seventh-day Adventists to whom the Lord has entrusted sacred, holy truths. Let the reader understand. What could this possibly mean to us as a people? This is a solemn subject for us to study! Today we are dealing with papal Rome. Papal Rome is to set up her standards in holy ground, in the glorious land of the Seventh-day Adventist church! When we see that happen, we are to flee to the mountains! Sunday worship is involved, of course! This will be the abomination that will cause desolation among God's people!

_______________________________________________

2. And why does Jesus particularly single out the prophet Daniel as being one that the reader(s) should understand? I don't think Jesus made such a strong point of the people understanding any of the other prophets, did He? Even though the other prophets, like Isaiah or Ezekiel, had important things to say...

***************

Of course Jesus did not imply that the other prophets were not important.

"Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us." 3 S.M.338.

[skyblue888]

Re: THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION IN HOLY GROUND in these last days.

Many years ago, while in Battle Creek, Mrs. White had a dream in which she was "looking out from the side glass at the door and saw a company marching up to the house, two and two. They looked stern and determined. I knew them well and turned to open the parlor door to receive them, but thought to look again. The scene was changed. The company now presented the appearance of a Catholic procession. One of them bore in his hand a cross, another a reed."

What could this possibly mean?

"And as they approached, the one carrying a reed made a circle around the house, saying three times: 'This house is proscribed. The goods must be confiscated. They have spoken against our holy order.'"

Mrs. White was terrified! Here is how she described her horror:

"Terror seized me, and I ran through the house, out of the north door, and found myself in the midst of a company, some of whom I knew, but I dared not speak a word to them for fear of being betrayed. I tried to seek a retired spot where I might weep and pray without meeting eager, inquisitive eyes wherever I turned. I repeated frequently: 'If I could only understand this! If they will tell me what I have said or what I have done!'" Testimonies, Vol.1, p.578.

Could it be that this dream was a prophecy of end time events within the church? Could it be that it was given to Mrs. White so that when the time came the remnant would better appreciate what these words mean: "It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the papacy." Signs of the Times, Feb.19, 1894.

The dream continues:

"I wept and prayed much as I saw our goods confiscated. I tried to read sympathy or pity for me in the looks of those around me, and marked the countenances of several whom I thought would speak to me and comfort me if they did not fear that they would be observed by others. I made one attempt to escape from the crowd, but seeing that I was watched, I concealed my intentions. I commenced weeping aloud, and saying: 'If they would only tell me what I have done or what I have said!' My husband, who was sleeping in a bed in the same room, heard me weeping aloud and awoke me. My pillow was wet with tears, and a sad depression of spirits was upon me." Ibid, 578.

This dream received a partial fulfillment when a few days later Mrs. White and her associates were "received with great coldness by the brethren" at Battle Creek. You can read this from page 579 to 585.

Could it be that this dream was given to her so that the remnant would better understand this testimony which came later after the dream:

"They are following in the track of Romanism." Testimonies to Ministers, p.362.

In her dream at Battle Creek Mrs. White saw "stern" "determined" and "inquisitive" eyes all around her. Is this not reminiscent of the spirit of the Inquisition?

What do you think?

Thanks.

sky

[melvin mccarty]

Jesus is referring to Daniel 11:31 where Daniel's prophecy speaks of the destruction of the Temple and city by the Roman armies. No mystery there unless we make one.

mel

[Gail]

I'm with David with the double fulfillment. Of course Jesus was speaking of the Romans just after His day, because the Christians recognized the sign and obeyed His words and fled Jerusalem, and consequently they were saved.

But I also hold to the explanation that I shared above, about the spiritual desolation caused by instituting a counterfeit sanctuary system or means of salvation.

Both powers are abominations (paganism & salvation via humans), both are desolating, one in a physical sense and the other in the spiritual.

[melvin mccarty]

When there is an actual fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy as referred to by Jesus why do we need to search for something else which can only be speculation?

mel

[David Koot]

When there is an actual fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy as referred to by Jesus why do we need to search for something else which can only be speculation?

mel

Daniel's prophecy, in ch. 11 and 12, referred to the time of papal supremacy. Note the time prophecy in ch. 12. Jesus' prophecy in Mt. 24 was dual application, by its stated terms. First fulfillment, the destruction of Jerusalem, second fulfillment, His return and the end of the world.

Dave

[skyblue888]

Second fulfillment will take place before the second coming of Christ. Papal Rome, the abomination of desolation is to set up her standards in "holy place." Where could this possibly be except within the professed church of Christ, namely the Seventh-day Adventist church which has been entrusted with sacred and holy truths!

In the first fulfillment Pagan Rome set up her standards (abomination of desolation) in "holy place" that is, near the temple in Jerusalem.

Back to you Dave.

sky

p.s. Daniel 11 speaks of the king of the north (Papal Rome) getting a deadly wound in 1798 at the hand of General Berthier under Napoleon. Papal Rome then lost her temporal power but the wound is to be healed before the second coming of Christ following the setting up of the image beast. Therefore, Papal Rome will regain her supremacy and it is written also in Dan.11 that the king of the north (Papal Rome) will enter the "glorious land". Is not this glorious land no other than the professed church of Christ today?

[melvin mccarty]

The "second fulfillment" however is speculation. There is no "proof" that there is a second fulfillment.

mel

[skyblue888]

Oh yes there is mel! When Jesus spoke these words He was looking down the ages, His eye was fixed upon our time! Mrs. White saw a second fulfillment of this verse in these last days. I will look for the statement unless someone has it at hand. I have read it. It will be only a short time before I find it.

[skyblue888]

The "second fulfillment" however is speculation. There is no "proof" that there is a second fulfillment. mel

What is the "abomination of desolation"?

"The Jews, after their long captivity, would not make any image. The image on the Roman ensign or banner, they called an abomination, especially when these emblems were placed in a prominent place for them to respect. Such respect they regarded as a violation of the second commandment. When the Roman ensign was set up in the holy place in the temple, they looked upon it as an abomination." E.G. White. 4 B.C.1145.

The second fulfillment:

"The time is not far distant, when, like the early disciples, we shall be forced to seek a refuge in desolate and solitary places. As the siege of Jerusalem by the Roman armies was the signal for flight on the part of Judean Christians, so the assumption of power on the part of our nation in the decree enforcing the papal sabbath will be a warning to us. It will then be time to leave the large cities, preparatory to leaving the smaller ones for retired homes in secluded places among the mountains." Testimonies, Vol.5, p.464.

Now this ensign (false sabbath) will be set up in the "holy place" at the time of its being enforced. As we all know, this "holy place" is no longer Jerusalem in the Middle East. The only "holy place" there is today is Modern Israel to whom holy and sacred truths have been entrusted to. Right? There is no other "holy place" than the church that God has made the depository of truth. Sunday worship will be urged upon us in our very midst. This being a violation of the fourth commandment, it will be seen by the faithful as the abomination of desolation. This will be the signal to leave the large cities preparatory to leaving the smaller ones for retired homes in secluded places among the mountains!

It is from these retired homes that the faithful will go to the cities to proclaim the last message of mercy to the world. Then the end will come!

[melvin mccarty]

That was about 140 years ago. Is it still imminent? Kind of stuff I was raised on in the 20's and 30's. There have been a number of variations on the "king of the north" in my lifetime. The obvious intent of Daniel's prophecy is stated by Jesus himself. Any secondary fulfillment is certainly not stated in scripture.

mel

[skyblue888]

Depends. If you are talking about men's speculations, I agree that the interpretations of Daniel 11:40-45 may vary. But when the pen of inspiration has already identified the king of the north to be Papal Rome in 1798, then that is what it is no matter how many years have elapsed because in Revelation chapter 13 the prophet tells us that the wound Papal Rome received in 1798 is to be healed. And in The Great Controversy we are told what this means. Before Jesus returns Papal Rome will regain its supremacy and repeat the history of the past. It will be but a short time before all nations will be forced to pay homage to her decrees.

You insist on saying that there is no end-time fulfillment of Matt.24:15! Yet, Testimonies, Vol.5, p.464 clearly indicates that history is to be repeated when the abomination of desolation will be set up in holy place!