God's position on immigration 'seems pretty clear'

[Amelia]

God's position on immigration 'seems pretty clear'

Rev. Bob Edgar

August 01, 2007

Talking Justice.org

Let's talk about immigration. But first, here's a word from our sponsor, the God of Abraham, Sarah and Hagar, Isaac and Rebekah, Jacob and Rachel and Leah.

"When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God." (NRSV, Leviticus 19:33-34)

That seems pretty clear. Don't you think?

There are a half dozen similar verses in the Hebrew scriptures. But Americans who are so riled up over this immigration situation seem to ignore these words.

While most respected public opinion polls show American citizens would be willing to allow the undocumented workers already here a path to citizenship, much of the media and political demagogues would have you believe otherwise. Most national talk radio hosts, the neoconservative blogs and CNN's Lou Dobbs are trying to scare us.

Now these are the same folks who trot out the Bible-the same book we quoted at the beginning of this article-to damn gay marriage and justify anti-gay legislation in several of our states. But when it comes to more Biblical evidence about how we should treat those non-citizens living among us, they are curiously silent about the several verses that seem fairly direct in how God wants us to act toward these human beings.

When I was a Member of Congress (1975-1987) we were constantly dealing with national security. During my tenure our country faced the attack on the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, the Iran-Contra scandal, and the U.S. hostages in Iran. Later I served (1988-1991) as executive director of the Committee for National Security, a Washington think tank.

Our border enforcement was never a priority of any administration until after 9/11. Unfortunately the fear mongers among us are devilishly clever. They have used nearly every scare tactic they can think of to reduce us to a highly suspicious lot all too willing to not love the alien as ourselves and to evict them from their homes, get them fired, separate them from their families, in an all out rampage of oppression and prejudice.

Nearly everything we eat passes through the hands of an undocumented worker. Nearly every office and rest room in America's corporate towers are cleaned and sanitized by undocumented workers. Nearly every meat packing plant -- after breaking unions and cutting living wages for American citizens -- now employs mostly Latinos and many of them undocumented workers.

Immigrants have become the contemporary scapegoat. Higher taxes, crowded schools, infectious diseases, all have been attributed to those who have come to America without the proper papers. It's time we call it for what it is-racism.

When you hear protests from vigilantes at rallies, notice that they point to those who wave the Mexican flag. Ever been to an Irish bar, or seen the flags at Columbus Day or St. Patrick's Day parades? White immigrants get a pass. Brown immigrants do not. And the demagogues keep preying on the post-9/11 fear to whip up hatred and suspicion of people who have come here in search of the same thing my northern European ancestors were seeking. They want a better life for their families and more opportunities for their children. They want to learn English. They already pay millions in taxes and contribute to their communities.

Most of the attention has been placed on the workers who have come through our southern border -- and on building a wall to keep them out. Little attention has been paid to our northern border yet the only foiled terrorist attack of someone trying to cross into our country happened in December, 1999, on the Canadian border. An alert Customs officer arrested a man trying to cross into Washington State on his way to bomb Los Angeles International Airport on New Year's Day, 2000.

The prophet Jeremiah (7:5-7) is also very clear on the subject: "For if you truly amend your ways and your doings, if you truly act justly one with another, if you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, and the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own hurt, then I will dwell with you in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your ancestors forever and ever."

I wonder about those who say America is God's anointed land, a shining city on a hill, the nation blessed by God. It seems before God will dwell with us in this land we had better change our ways and "truly act justly one with another" regardless of where we were born or the color of our skin.

Today's immigrants are the latest wave of human beings--sisters and brothers Christ loves--who come seeking better lives for themselves and their families. They are really no different than our northern European ancestors who came here. We are being called to celebrate these new Americans and incorporate them into the fabric of the multi-colored quilt that is America.

[annie]

I would like to point out the 13th Chapter of Romans. I don't think anyone objects to others coming to this country legally as have immigrants from other countries. I am concerned if people are not required to comply with the laws pertaining to immigration shouldn't it concern us as to what other laws may seem as unnecessary to comply with. I am not opposed to immigration but as Romans,Chapter 13 clearly states "a person be in subjection to the governing authorities and continues on in very clear language concerning the harm done to those resisting this authority as it has been given by God and hence rebelling against God resulting in condemnation upon themselves. Also as to the gay marriage issue Romans Chapter 1 has very strong language as well. Wouldn't these cases be good examples of people's "wants" winning out over God's Word? I consider myself a Christian living according to the standard set forth by God and so must our voices boldly proclaim His righteousness and not man's tradition irregardless of whether or not it is heeded or accepted.

[Dr. Shane]

I brought an immigrant across the border once that did not have their papers correct. That is, they had a tourist visa but should have had accompanying paperwork too. My family and I were detained for a few hours, we had to surrender our passports and they were considering confiscating our car. In the end they allowed us to go but deported the immigrant. I gained a lot of respect for immigration law. It is not a game to play around with.

[Amelia]

Quote:

I don't think anyone objects to others coming to this country legally as have immigrants from other countries.

Correct Annie. If they come legally then welcome, welcome, welcome. What is angering me right now are the numbers of illegal immigrants who are also criminals that are taking harbor in the States. Just last week two illegal immigrants were arrested for the murder of a young woman. Additionally these men had records here in Oregon that had been flagged for immigration to investigate for deporting. But guess what? Not enough investigators and way too many flags. Plus they can only be actively investigated while in jail. So the prior arrests didn't keep them in the system long enough for immigration to even get off their butts anyway. Now that they have killed, they will most likely be imprisioned here and not deported. So one way or another the illegals are sucking the hard earned money of the legals out of our pockets.

[Robert]

"When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God." (NRSV, Leviticus 19:33-34)

The average "legal" American citizen isn't oppressing the Mexican aliens! This Rev. needs to get real....

The fact is that it is "big business" who is "bribing" their buddies in Washington to over look existing immigration laws so they can use "cheap" labor to fill their bank accounts with the green stuff. Not only are they discriminating against the illegals, but also they are driving many poor Americans into further poverty.

You see the USA has certain labor laws to protect American workers, but "big business" has learned that if you hire an illegal you can get around all those rules.

Do you know what the Bible calls this? Partiality and favoritism! They apply one set of rules to legals and none when it comes to illegals. It's all about "the love of money"!

So Mr. Preacher is wrong. He needs to read the rest of the Bible!

[Dr. Shane]

In America, the consumer drives big business. Big business gives the consumer what the consumer wants.

Many immigrants work in agriculture which is a commodity governed by market forces. If the cost of labor is too high, the crops rot in the field because the farmers cannot afford to harvest them. Yet many immigrants love agricultural work because they are not paid by the hour and can earn well over minimum wage.

[Robert]

In America, the consumer drives big business. Big business gives the consumer what the consumer wants.

Oh, I see...it's the consumer's fault. Yes, consumers want cheaper prices - but legally and justly. Actually "big business" blames the consumer to cover up their excessive greed. Please don't excuse bad behavior with more bad behavior.

Rob

[lazarus]

Quote:

...he alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God." (NRSV, Leviticus 19:33-34)

I love the way so many christians have a problem with the "love thing" when people don't look, talk, eat, dress like them. This is another manifestation of apostate protestantism!

[Dr. Shane]

The verse in Leviticus is instruction to the theocratic nation of Israel. It was not instruction to those living under secular governments. The instruction to us is to be submissive to the governing authorities.

Now as a citizen of a democracy I have a little influence over my government's immigration policy. In that respect, I may vote a certain way, write letters to my congressman and local newspaper. However just because I may disagree with a given law, immigration or other, does not mean I can disregard it. The exception, of course, is when it would be sinful not to do so.

This is where some may take exception and claim that God's instruction to ancient Israel is applicable today and those that do not shelter and employ illegal aliens are actually sinning against God Almighty. That is not a position I hold. If an immigrant faces certain death upon returning to their home country then yes, I would say we have am obligation to help them, even if it means violating immigration law in so doing. Although in such circumstances, most immigrants would be able to get political asylum.

[Gerr]

Quote:

...he alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God." (NRSV, Leviticus 19:33-34)

I love the way so many christians have a problem with the "love thing" when people don't look, talk, eat, dress like them. This is another manifestation of apostate protestantism!

Are you a proponent of open borders?

Gerry

[Denise]

Quote:

If they come legally then welcome, welcome, welcome. What is angering me right now are the numbers of illegal immigrants who are also criminals that are taking harbor in the States. Just last week two illegal immigrants were arrested for the murder of a young woman. Additionally these men had records here in Oregon that had been flagged for immigration to investigate for deporting. But guess what? Not enough investigators and way too many flags. Plus they can only be actively investigated while in jail. So the prior arrests didn't keep them in the system long enough for immigration to even get off their butts anyway. Now that they have killed, they will most likely be imprisioned here and not deported. So one way or another the illegals are sucking the hard earned money of the legals out of our pockets.

I agree Melia, as long as they come in here legally, welcome! It also angers me to see the illegal immigrants here that are criminals. I hear so much on that. It seems like if they are coming in illegal, then what other law will they break? Doesn't sound good to me if they try to sneak in here illegally. If you break one, what other ones will you break? But for the ones who want to come in here legal, I am for that! It shows me that they have respect to laws, and will respect others as well. It just seems safer IMOP. That was sad to hear on the murder of that young woman.

[lazarus]

Quote:

Are you a proponent of open borders?

Gerry

No

To show love to those who want a better life for themselves and their families would not necessarily mean open borders.

[Denise]

Quote:

Am just beside myself with worry.

Ohhh.....Really.....too bad..... :)

[Gerr]

Quote:

Are you a proponent of open borders?

Gerry

No

To show love to those who want a better life for themselves and their families would not necessarily mean open borders.

And keeping them out or sending them home is not the loving thing to do?

Gerry

[Bravus]

Here's a left-field idea: why *not* open the borders? The most recent analog is West Germany reuniting with East Germany. OK, in that instance there was a common language, but it doesn't seem to have killed Germany's economy - more revitalised it. Mexico has 110 million or so with a per capita GDP of $10,700, the US has 300 million with a per capita GDP of $44,000. Weighted average it drops the GDP of the new 410 million person nation to $35,000 or so. (Australia's is $33,300.)

Drops the average for Americans (but only the average - individual outcomes would differ by even more than they do already) by $9,000, or about 20%. Raises the average for Mexicans by 84%. Creates a huge new pool of relatively cheap and hard-working labour for American industry as well as a heap of consumers, boosts the economy back up to and beyond $44,000 quick smart. Saves heaps on law enforcement, border enforcement and wall building (as well as concentration camp building, coming soon).

I'm not seeing the downside!

(all numbers from CIA World Factbook)

[Bravus]

Realised later while I was out riding that my math was flawed and it actually increases the per capita GDP for Mexicans by around 227%.

Also realised this is a very America-centric perspective on the issue: no offense intended to any Mexican readers.

[Gerr]

Too bad American expansion stopped in the Pacific. It would now be easier to control the borders if our borders are in Panama and the Arctic.

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

I believe the US only closed its border with Mexico some 50 years ago. It use to be an open border. In order for that to work, law enforcement on each side must work together with common goals.

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Quote:

Are you a proponent of open borders?

Gerry

No

To show love to those who want a better life for themselves and their families would not necessarily mean open borders.

And keeping them out or sending them home is not the loving thing to do?

Gerry

Loving them may mean sending them home and may mean having stricter controls. What I'm getting at is the way that illegal immigrants are viewed and talked about

They are referred to by many Christians as if their behaviour is morally repugnant. There seems to be no compassion or understanding of their dreams/aspirations and goals.

I guess as the son of an immigrant, and thinking of a Father who left his small village in 1950 to make a better life for his family my heart goes out to those people who will walk across the desert and risk death to get a better life. Maybe I'm too sentimental but I can understand what drives them to do what they do.

[Amelia]

Jesus told us to follow the law of the land but Gods laws above all. Seems we can love someone and send them back to their own country.

[Bravus]

Hmm... but I'm not sure I spotted anything about the legality of the aliens in that text that started the thread. The text is pretty specific and straightforward about how they are to be treated. Interesting that texts about almost anything else are rigidly interpreted, but we feel free to kick in a bunch of caveats and corrections on this topic.

[lazarus]

Interesting that texts about almost anything else are rigidly interpreted, but we feel free to kick in a bunch of caveats and corrections on this topic.

Amen brother!

[lazarus]

Here's an example of the crazy talk about illegal immigrants.....

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said Tuesday he is "sickened" that President Bush and Congress went on vacation "while young Americans in our cities are massacred" by illegal immigrants.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2007/08/14/newt0814.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

[Gerr]

Quote:

I guess as the son of an immigrant, and thinking of a Father who left his small village in 1950 to make a better life for his family my heart goes out to those people who will walk across the desert and risk death to get a better life. Maybe I'm too sentimental but I can understand what drives them to do what they do.

I, too, am an immigrant, but came legally. I feel for these people. If I had the same dismal future, I would probably do the same thing they are doing.

Since our economy needs cheap labor, it seems like the most obvious solution is to have something similar to the Bracero program in California back in the 50's. If Americans don't want them to stay permanently, then they should be issued temporary working permits.

Gerry

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

The text is pretty specific and straightforward

The text was taken from Leviticus. While the Adventists teach against eating unclean meats, it isn't because of the Levitical restrictions were for the nation of Israel. The reason Adventists teach against eating unclean meats is because it seems the restriction was first given to Noah, still practiced after calvary and according to Isaiah, will still be an abomination at the second coming of Christ. Homosexuality is believed to be sin not because of the Levitical restrictions but because the epistles clarified that those continue to apply to the church. Any "proof" text taken out of Leviticus is going to be on weak ground to start off with.