the prayer thread for .....erhmm.... some

[Guest charis]

I've been reading with interest the comments in the prayer thread started for Danny Shelton. I'm not sure if people are praying for Danny because he had stents placed in his coronary arteries (which is not classified as major surgery) or because he co-founded 3ABN which is being touted as bringing many to Christ (I can't comment on that, because I've never watched 3ABN). Then there are the many comments from Anonymous saying that he/she/they are also praying for Danny, and adding no commentary about it. Then there are the healthy-eating/here's what he should be doing comments.

Everyone needs prayer. In a way, it bothers me to see some prayer requests virtually ignored on the forum - and then to see all these *prayers* going up for a person who has plenty of people praying for him and the reason for so many is his public position with 3ABN. It isn't that I think the number of prayers are *wrong* - it's just that the reasoning behind them makes me twitch.... "I'll pray for Danny because he has brought the gospel to many people via 3ABN..."

I dunno....just seems like a weird reason to pray for someone -- basing it on the purported importance of a person's "spiritual/public" persona....

Do the number of prayers make a significant impact on what God does?

[Gail]

Good question! I don't know if the number of prayers matters as much as the hearts that send them up.

[Clio]

You know... I think that may have come off a bit bitter, but I didn't mean it to be.

It was just such an eye-opener to see the same exact thing that started all this with my husband get such a response. It really does make a huge difference when it's a celebrity. It matters whether people realize it or not.

It's a commentary on our own humanity. More .... pick it ..... prayers, attention, commentary, skill, whatever you choose... more of it will be paid to a celebrity all other things being equal.

And I do appreciate, very deeply, the continued prayers for Mike and I and our family. I truly do. But it stings to be told Mike "wasn't all that sick, now really come on admit it" and then see this kind of response for something that is really just the tip of the iceberg for what many of our loved ones (not just me but others here too) have suffered through.

No... numbers don't matter with Abba. The hearts and unity of faith of two or more, or a single soul praying... that is what Abba listens to.

Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. That's singular.

Praise Abba!

Clio

[LifeHiscost]

Everyone needs prayer......"I'll pray for Danny because he has brought the gospel to many people via 3ABN..."

Do the number of prayers make a significant impact on what God does?

A few reasons might be these:

"And call on Me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall honor and glorify Me."

Psalm 50:15 AMP

"....and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him." John 12:26 NASB

"Whoever keeps the fig tree will eat its fruit; So he who waits on his master will be honored."

Prov 27:18 NKJV

Regards!

[Nan]

Do the number of prayers make a significant impact on what God does?

I think this question is the crux of this thread....I will wait with interest the replies.

Some years ago a child in the church I attended was severely burned - 60% of her body. There were many prayers for the little girl, who survived while many others in hospital with her did not. She is a bubbly intelligent child but will face ongoing surgery due to the scarring and contractures on her limbs.

There was a move at the church to have special prayer for her, to pray for total healing so she would not need ongoing surgery. The inference was, that if enough of us prayed hard and long enough, she would be healed. Others in the church felt this was trying to tell God what to do, and while wanting to pray for the child, felt the prayer should be 'according to His will'.

I will await the thoughts of others, I think it is an issue which we need to undertand.

(I am not trying to ignore the various other issues here, including more prayers for celebrities, but would like this thread to answer the very pertinent question which Charis asked.)

[Gail]

It may be that people would feel impressed to pray for those who have touched their lives in some way. A celebrity could easily fall into this category.

[JeriAnne]

Danny's prayers for Himself will probably make the MOST difference to God!!! God's will can only be worked to change a persons life to the degree that the individual will allow it! ALL the prayers in the world won't take away Danny's role in it all! God longs for interaction with us. If we are praying for another we become part of the conversation and God uses our faith and prayer in whatever way He can but it still is necessary for the individual to interact at whatever level they are capable of. But then I imagine Danny knows that!

[LifeHiscost]

God's will can only be worked to change a persons life to the degree that the individual will allow it! ALL the prayers in the world won't take away Danny's role in it all!!

We very often seem to subscribe to the idea that God really can't do anything for us unless we are willing to allow Him to do it. This puts the onus on the humanbeing as the basic reason of personal works for his/her own salvation, and makes God out to be a weak and impotent ruler, subject to the whims and fancys of minds too depraved to know there is a Power far beyond their weak and vacillating character or their equally powerless varied human counterparts.

Thank God for people who prayed for me when I was totally ignorant of His ability to work out plans far superior to my abilities to lose my own soul, all in the name of Love willing to die for me when all I deserved was the death He was so willing to ignominiously suffer.

"Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]--" Ephesians 3:20 AMP

Regards!!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Do the number of prayers make a significant impact on what God does?

Can't speak for God, so I do not know. However the Bible seems to talk about the prayer of the individual being heard by God and haveing some type of action.

"Keep on asking and it will be given you; keep on seeking and you will find; keep on knocking [reverently] and [the door] will be opened to you. For everyone who keeps on asking receives; and he who keeps on seeking finds; and to him who keeps on knocking, [the door] will be opened." Matthew 7:7.8 AMP

Regards!

[JeriAnne]

I am not talking about IGNORANCE of God's Will or power! God certainly has the power to make changes regardless of our choice! And in that case the prayers of those who KNOW and Believe are powerful! But GOD does NOT remove our choice from the equation! If we are "ignorant" we can learn! God's power can be recognized most readily by the ignorant!!!

But if one KNOWS and REFUSES than there isn't much more that GOD can do in that instance. The same choices may be presented again and with each presentation there is the opportunity to move into that personal relationship that will allow God to show us His trustworthiness. But God is ALWAYS the GENTLEMAN!!! HE will not force HIMSELF where he is not wanted. That doesn't deny HIM the POWER to act but instead shows His power of personal restraint! In the end ALL of us must decide if GOD is WORTHY of trust! It is after all GOD who is on trial here on earth! WE only learn God's trustworthiness from relationship with HIM.

[Guest charis]

I am not talking about IGNORANCE of God's Will or power! God certainly has the power to make changes regardless of our choice! And in that case the prayers of those who KNOW and Believe are powerful! But GOD does NOT remove our choice from the equation! If we are "ignorant" we can learn! God's power can be recognized most readily by the ignorant!!!

But if one KNOWS and REFUSES than there isn't much more that GOD can do in that instance. The same choices may be presented again and with each presentation there is the opportunity to move into that personal relationship that will allow God to show us His trustworthiness. But God is ALWAYS the GENTLEMAN!!! HE will not force HIMSELF where he is not wanted. That doesn't deny HIM the POWER to act but instead shows His power of personal restraint! In the end ALL of us must decide if GOD is WORTHY of trust! It is after all GOD who is on trial here on earth! WE only learn God's trustworthiness from relationship with HIM.

What does this remark have to do with whether or not prayers from a number of people make a difference to God and in what He does?

[JeriAnne]

It was in response to LifeHisCost's comment below:

Quote:

We very often seem to subscribe to the idea that God really can't do anything for us unless we are willing to allow Him to do it. This puts the onus on the humanbeing as the basic reason of personal works for his/her own salvation, and makes God out to be a weak and impotent ruler, subject to the whims and fancys of minds too depraved to know there is a Power far beyond their weak and vacillating character or their equally powerless varied human counterparts.

Thank God for people who prayed for me when I was totally ignorant of His ability to work out plans far superior to my abilities to lose my own soul, all in the name of Love willing to die for me when all I deserved was the death He was so willing to ignominiously suffer.

I believe that God hears the prayers we pray for others whether individually or in groups. Where two or three are gathered in Jesus name there is power in prayer. And I do think your father deserves prayer as much as anyone whether or NOT he is a celebrity.

What I was attempting to say is that when your father opens His heart to God in honest supplication then God is truly free to work His will in His life. It isn't that the other prayers for him are meaningless. And it doesn't mean that there are not times when we need someone to "stand in the gap" for us when our own pain is too great to pray for ourselves. But even in those instances the power really starts to flow when we reach out to God ourselves and seek His will! And I am not saying He isn't doing that.

I just did a Word search on the Words "Pray For" and found that there are several requests in Scripture where prayer from others has been sought. Jesus prayed for His disciples (John 17:19) and Romans 8:26 states that the HOly Spirit prays for us when we don't know how to pray for ourselves.

Then the prayer for Knowledge is mentioned in Colossians 1:9-11. And 1 Thessalonians 1:25 Paul asks to be prayed for but doesn't specify what that prayer should include. and in 2Thessalonians 3:1-5 prayer is also requested that God's Word will be glorified. In Hebrews 13;18 we find a request for prayer that the requester of the prayer will live honestly.

I found Moses Praying for the ISraelites and Joseph Praying for His brothers and Samuel Praying for the people at Mizpah. But in each of these cases it was one person praying for many NOT many praying for One!

It would seem that in the BIBLE at least one person in relationship with God has more power in prayer than many praying for one.

I don't know if that means anything to this discussion or not!

So Often I think the prayer list thing we see in churches today is just another way to pass gossip around! But of course if those who are praying are sincere I certainly shouldn't and can't be the judge of those prayers.

What I DO Know is that when I as an individual get honest with GOD and start to really listen to God and to talk from my heart with HIM....THEN I start to experience the power of God in my life to do what NEEDS doing in it! And if I am NOT wanting to be honest with God He is limited in the answering of anyone's prayer for me be that one prayer or many!

THAT is ALL I was trying to say!

[LifeHiscost]

God's power can be recognized most readily by the ignorant!!!

But if one KNOWS and REFUSES than there isn't much more that GOD can do in that instance.

Perhaps my antenna goes up when I hear "God can't". If it is made clear that "God won't", as a direct result of His being the "Gentleman", that is different than relegating Him to the impotent, dependant upon man's depraved whims to give Him permission to exercise His power.

While it is true there are limits that are characteristic of God, such as Light cannot dwell with darkness, God cannot deny Himself and God cannot lie, all of these principles lie in the realm of His sovereignty, not in His unwillingness to act as a result of weakness, ours or His.

As to our ignorance being a reason God will act on our behalf, this characteristic alone gives Him permission to answer the prayers of anybody for anybody else who is made a subject of prayer, for we are all ignorant to a point, no matter how unique we might believe ourselves to be in the realm of knowledge and wisdom. This is somewhat evident in the circumstance of the crucifixion of Jesus, and Jesus' prayer for those who were abusing Him.

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Luke 23:34 KJV

One thing we can be sure of when we pray for others, to assure us that those prayers have every possibility of being answered; none of us are the end-all of wisdom or knowledge. Therefore there is always reason to see any prayer answered that is given according to God's will. And since it is God's will that all come unto repentance and be saved, we need only to pray and leave the results in His hands according to His promises.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3,4 KJV

"...and a servant of the Lord it behoveth not to strive, but to be gentle unto all, apt to teach, patient under evil,

in meekness instructing those opposing -- if perhaps God may give to them repentance to an acknowledging of the truth,

and they may awake out of the devil's snare, having been caught by him at his will." 2 Timothy 2:24-26 YLT

"Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”" Mark 9:23 NKJV

Regards!

[Gail]

To add to what JeriAnne was saying about one person praying for many, I thought of the example of Elijah vs. the 450 prophets of Baal, or Elijah in the time of no rain.

There was the time in the NT where the believers all prayed in one accord (they were all united in prayer). As a result of this, God sent the Holy Spirit to come to them in power.

There is never a bad time to pray!

[LifeHiscost]

To add to what JeriAnne was saying about one person praying for many, I thought of the example of Elijah vs. the 450 prophets of Baal, or Elijah in the time of no rain.

There was the time in the NT where the believers all prayed in one accord (they were all united in prayer). As a result of this, God sent the Holy Spirit to come to them in power.

There is never a bad time to pray!

Amen!

"These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren." Acts 1:14 KJV

[psgodluvsu]

If a group comes and asks you for something, you'd be more likely to grant it than if just one person asked you. But then again, it would depend on how close that one individual was to you vs the group... Perhaps God is like that also to some degree.

A lot has to do with the faith of the people praying and prayed for person's faith also.