Politics in the church

[carolaa]

At all levels. Some conferences and churches are notoriously political, but it's never talked about openly. You don't cross certain people. Someone gets a position because they are buddies with someone. Ridiculous, illogical decisions are made just so as not to do it a certain person's way. Strange bedfellows are united in getting rid of leaders. Leaders who have learned to speak vague, meaningless words in order to keep the targets off their backs. I am continually amazed and disgusted at how politically skilled some of us are.

[Dr. Shane]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, [whispering quietly] it is talked about in my church.

[there buster]

You're not describing politics, you're describing dysfuntion, emotional disease, manipulation, and corruption.

Politics is something else entirely.

[Gerr]

Politics- Webster's definition #4. political methods, tactics, etc.; sometimes, specif., crafty or unprincipled methods. #5 political opinions, principles, or party connections #6: factional scheming for power and status within a group.

Gerry

[Woody]

Please don't bring up the dictonary here. There are certain members who dislike it being quoted.

[Gerr]

How are you going to play any game if you don't use the rule book?

Gerry

[carolaa]

Please don't bring up the dictonary here. There are certain members who dislike it being quoted.

That's funny. At least, I think you're trying to be funny, and if you are, then it's quite funny. Personally, I think there's nothing that compares to a dictionary when people question the meanings of words. :smilewink:

But on the off chance that you're serious or even tongue-in-cheek, that's another great illustration of what I'm talking about with politics in the church, where certain nameless, faceless people seem to have such power over what the group is permitted to do.

[there buster]

Quote:

You don't cross certain people. Someone gets a position because they are buddies with someone. Ridiculous, illogical decisions are made just so as not to do it a certain person's way.

Quote:

crafty or unprincipled methods. . . . factional scheming for power and status within a group

There is not necessary connection between the first group of symptoms and the "dictionary definiton" cited.

A dictionary cannot remedy imprecise thinking.

[Gerr]

Quote:

A dictionary cannot remedy imprecise thinking.

So, we make our own definition of a word then and say that that IS the precise meaning?

Gerry

[olger]

We even have some politics in Ohio, believe it or not. I guess I'd make a poor politicien.

I still like Ronald Reagan's description of politics.

`oG

[there buster]

List A

• don't cross certain people don't cross certain people.
• Someone gets a position because they are buddies with someone Someone gets a position because they are buddies with someone.
• Ridiculous, illogical decisions are made just so as not to do it a certain person's way.

Definition

• crafty or unprincipled methods
• factional scheming or power and status within a group

The items in list A do not match the definition. So using the definition is imprecise at best.

[aldona]

We even have some politics in Ohio, believe it or not. I guess I'd make a poor politicien.

I still like Ronald Reagan's description of politics.

`oG

I wonder if that's the same definition that I've heard used a few times recently. (We're in the middle of an election campaign here in Australia.)

"Politics" comes from two ancient Greek words:

"Poli" which means "Many";

and "Tics" which means "Blood-sucking parasites."

aldona

[olger]

"Politics is the world's second oldest profession. I have come to learn that it bears striking resemblance to the world's first oldest profession" (Ronald Reagan).

oG

[LynnDel]

I must apologize, but this seems to be a music nostalgia day for me. All the church politics only seem to get worse year by year. It makes me think of the ideals in a song that was popular when I was a teenager:

We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord.

Remember that one? They'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love, they'll know we are Chrisitians by our love.

We will work with each other, we will work side by side...

Why are so many in my generation missing from the church pews? Why are so many more of our children gone? Because too many times we are not one in the Spirit, we don't look like Christians because our love is not evident, and working side by side is done with great difficulty due to differing opinions on how the work should be done.

Well, that's pretty much of a downer post for this Pollyanna here.

Sorry.

[fccool]

I think that a proper definition of politics is a "science of governing". So, looking at the church politics today and how it governs itself... it is quite interesting to observe that you would not be able to find the following in the Bible.

1) 501c3 and becoming a government controlled entity - corporation

2) Corporate Titles such as President, and etc.

3) Church Board who decides for the local church

4) A greater church board such as CG that decide for the church boards.

5) The tithe system as it is being utilized today. I just don't see how you can stretch Biblical principle so far.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to disrespect people who desire to honestly serve God. But I would like to see some Biblical justification for current church structure, both politically and financially, as I suspect some of it is a human creation in search for efficiency.

[skyblue888]

Not to worry, when the Lord finishes the work and cut it short in righteousness, He will use simple means... in a manner very much out of the common order of things and contrary to any human planning!

sky

p.s. should politics and gospel mix together?

[Morepork]

Carolaa, I love your post!

It is so very true, even down under!

[skyblue888]

God said that as a people we had put Him aside like the Jews did when they chose to have a man for king instead of Him. Thus they put God aside and accepted the devisings of men. We did the same thing exactly. "God declares, 'I will be glorified in My people,' but the self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men." T.M.481. The devisings of men are of men's constitutions, men's governments: Policy book (politics), by-laws, resolutions, elections by votes, delegations, church manuals, creeds...

The presidency had been eliminated during the 1901 General Conference,,, a movement of reform had finally begun to allow the Holy Spirit to be King,,, reformatory steps were taken to bring in Gospel Order, primitive faith,,, but that movement did not last very long. In 1902 A.G. Daniells assumed the presidency and got away with that and at the 1903 General Conference he was officially elected as president, thus reversing the reformatory steps taken at the 1901 General Conference. And this order of things has continued ever since. Mrs. White warned: "If you allow this to continue, your faith will soon become extinct." T.M.481.

sky

[skyblue888]

I think that a proper definition of politics is a "science of governing". So, looking at the church politics today and how it governs itself... it is quite interesting to observe that you would not be able to find the following in the Bible.

1) 501c3 and becoming a government controlled entity - corporation

2) Corporate Titles such as President, and etc.

3) Church Board who decides for the local church

4) A greater church board such as CG that decide for the church boards.

5) The tithe system as it is being utilized today. I just don't see how you can stretch Biblical principle so far.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to disrespect people who desire to honestly serve God. But I would like to see some Biblical justification for current church structure, both politically and financially, as I suspect some of it is a human creation in search for efficiency.

Well said.

sky

[hch]

We even have some politics in Ohio, believe it or not. I guess I'd make a poor politicien.

I still like Ronald Reagan's description of politics.

`oG

When Daniel and Revelation are explained to say that President Obama is America's last President and Pope Benedict XVI is the 7th head (last pope) on the papal beast: Some people think that is a political teaching instead of Bible prophecy coming to life before our eyes.

[hch]

Quote:

A dictionary cannot remedy imprecise thinking.

So, we make our own definition of a word then and say that that IS the precise meaning?

Gerry

When the facts in one dictionary do not agree with our perception, we can always change dictionaries until we find one we like.

[doug yowell]

"Politics" comes from two ancient Greek words:

"Poli" which means "Many";

and "Tics" which means "Blood-sucking parasites."

aldona

I like that one!!

[doug yowell]

"Politics is the world's second oldest profession. I have come to learn that it bears striking resemblance to the world's first oldest profession" (Ronald Reagan).

oG

That one too!

[hch]

Politics in the church? What is it?

Church members jockeying for responsible positions of leadership?

The American pro-elephants verses the pro-donkeys?

Daring to identify a current living political leader as the last pope or the last American president because a prophecy says so?

Hmmm

[Woody]

Quote:

Daring to identify a current living political leader as the last pope or the last American president because a prophecy says so?

Personally I really don't think that we need to care. But if it is important to you then go for it.