What is our church doing about this?

[Dr. Shane]

One has to put all the pieces together to get homosexuality. If we take each verse separately, like gay theology does, we can rationalize and say Sodom's sin was inhospitality and violence. However Jude specifically says their sin included fornication, which is a sexual sin - a violation of the Seventh Commandment.

The point of whether the crowd was all men or a mix of men and women is rather irrelevant. Men are the typical sexual aggressors. Does anyone suspect that sexually aggressive women were in the crowd demanding to have sex with these angels and that Lot offered these women his virgin daughters? And if it were women demanding sex with the angels, Lot must have thought they were lesbian-inclined since he offered his daughters to them. So either way, if those demanding sex were men or women, gay overtones are all over the story and Jude clearly defines fornication as one of their sins. The "strange flesh" Jude speaks of isn't necessarily homosexuality but in light of the Genesis account, it probably is.

[John317]

...(And who was worse, the mob or Lot, who preferred they rape his daughters rather than his guests!?!?)...

By offering his daughters to those men-- as horrible as it sounds--Lot showed deep respect for the "natural order" of God's plan for human beings, which is that the male is to use the female for sex, and not other males. The rape of any body by anyone, whether male or female, is a terrible crime, but the rape of a female's body by a male is at least not a perversion in the way that homosexual rape is. See the Bible's characterization of these things in Romans 1: 24-28. So, it seems to me, Lot was showing that he would rather have his beloved daughters abused than see such a horrible, unnatural crime as homosexual rape committed against Yahweh in the person of His messengers. This is doubtless a hard concept for us to fully grasp because we've grown accustomed to viewing these things through the eyes of a society which increasingly advocates the notion that marriage between two men or two women should be considered normal.

[darlene]

You guys! What you are doing here is as evil in God's eyes as homosexual acts performed by homosexual humans. You are killing or condeming our brothers and sisters just as surely as they are doing what is evil in God's eyes.

No I do not support homosexual acts for that is just plain sin but, I do love and support those who are homosexual. I happen to have 4-5 friends who are homosexuals. Some of them are acting homosexuals and though I do not believe that what they are doing is right, they still are my friends. I also have some that are not practising homosexuals and they are my brothers in Christ just as surely as you are my brothers in Christ.

No, we don't have to condone homosexuality but, we do have to love these people just as Jesus would.

[Parade Orange]

OLGER dont u know!!!!

When gay couples get together the sex is exciting and new but as time marches on and if they stay together they become more like siblings(if they like each other and have common interests).

God divinely ordered that in the emotional makeup of men(and woman). GOD is sooo GOOD.

All the gay couples I have known thru the years dont have sex anymore with each other. They have become comfortable and share a history. They are not attracted to each other anymore.

It has been discussed and shared on same sex attraction christian sites a bit. God is great! He has his hands in everything when he designed us!!!!

Praise JESUS!!!!

So when u see a gay couple who has been together many years(and maybe even got married with an SDA in the room) u can rest assured there is no sodomy going on Anymore.

wheeew!

[Parade Orange]

same flesh-man on man action

strange flesh is man on angel action

strange meaning foriegn(sp?) not familar.. uhhh not of this world

[Parade Orange]

I spent Thanksgiving in Paradise CA with my bro and his wife!

They like to drink and smoke pot and play electric guitar with their friends and jammed for us(my buddy drove).

They had a few friends show up. The one who drank beer non stop from morn to night(for years I suspect) pulled me aside and told me that my bro told him I was gay and then preceded to tell me he dont aprove of my lifestyle.

I refrained fromtelling him I didnt aprove of his lifestyle either.

so OLGER u are in good company!

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Spoken by a a male, posted by a male...I have but one thing to say about such a posting....Utterly Vile!!

Just to put this comment in context. The "male" being referred to is a gay male who has found victory in Christ. Praise the Lord! I think he is more than qualified to talk about this subject and his thoughts are far from being utterly vile. C/A needs to be a place where gays, alcoholics and others that have felt hurt by the church can come and not be called utterly vile. Let's try to play nice with each other and not call others names just because we disagree them.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

What you are doing here is as evil in God's eyes as homosexual acts performed by homosexual humans. You are killing or condemning our brothers and sisters just as surely as they are doing what is evil in God's eyes.

To place some opinions in context. When I was in college, I ran a campus ministry with a primary focus of reaching out to gays and lesbians for three years. I worked hand and hand with Exodus International. John 317 is himself a gay man who has found victory in our Lord Jesus Christ. Neither one of us are condemning homosexuals. I covet their souls for Jesus. A member of my own family is gay. I view homosexuality as a sin on par with alcoholism, dishonoring one's parents and lying. I think greater sins are murder, pride and covetousness.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I refrained from telling him I didnt aprove of his lifestyle either.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

That's a good one Parade... But really you shouldn't have. - - - refrained, that is.

[Woody]

Quote:

Spoken by a a male, posted by a male...I have but one thing to say about such a posting....Utterly Vile!!

Just to put this comment in context. The "male" being referred to is a gay male who has found victory in Christ. Praise the Lord! I think he is more than qualified to talk about this subject and his thoughts are far from being utterly vile. C/A needs to be a place where gays, alcoholics and others that have felt hurt by the church can come and not be called utterly vile. Let's try to play nice with each other and not call others names just because we disagree them.

I am not taking sides here. But this is the most inflammatory post of the thread. This post is attempting to make things personal. And we don't need this on CA.

If you will notice ... the post in question stated that the post was "vile". This is simply an opinion about a comment. It is NOT a comment about a person. Please stop making things so personal. The purpose of this forum is to be able to post opinion. We have to be able to distinguish between opinion and the person. This is clearly a description of the opinion not the person.

In order for this place to be safe ... we have to not inflame situations which this is doing. Please allow for opinions to be stated even if it is opposite to yours. This author said something about the "posting" not the "person". So, it is NOT personal ... so lets not make it personal.

[lazarus]

This may advance our discussion a little...emphasis supplied

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/state/all-a13_street.6147750nov20,0,51868.story

Mayor John Street, once regarded as an enemy of the gay community for opposing same-sex partner benefits, is to preside over his first same-sex commitment ceremony this weekend.

Street said he was asked to officiate at the ceremony for Ryan Bunch and Micah Mahjoubian, a longtime colleague, Saturday at City Hall.

''Micah is my friend. He has been in my campaign and has been in my administration for eight years,'' Street said. ''I've come to respect him as a person, and if this is something he would like for me to do, then I'd like to do it for him.''

About 125 guests are expected at the ceremony, which will have no legal weight since Pennsylvania prohibits gay marriage.

''It's not marriage. It's not real marriage. They can't be married,'' said Street, a Seventh-day Adventist. ''It's not a religious ceremony. I mean, it's not really marriage.''

As City Council president through most of the 1990s, Street strongly opposed legislation to provide benefits to same-sex partners of city employees. It eventually passed.

But many gay activists said that once Street became mayor, he reached out to the gay community. He formed a commission on sexual minorities, held a fundraiser for a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community center and spoke at the dedication ceremony for a historical marker recognizing the work of gay and lesbian activists.

''To me, this is like a 'Nixon goes to China' thing,'' said Mahjoubian, the city's deputy secretary of external affairs. ''He came in as a mayor that a lot of people in our community were skeptical of, and yet he is going out able to accomplish more than anyone thought.''

[Neil D]

Quote:

Spoken by a a male, posted by a male...I have but one thing to say about such a posting....Utterly Vile!!

Just to put this comment in context. The "male" being referred to is a gay male who has found victory in Christ. Praise the Lord! I think he is more than qualified to talk about this subject and his thoughts are far from being utterly vile. C/A needs to be a place where gays, alcoholics and others that have felt hurt by the church can come and not be called utterly vile. Let's try to play nice with each other and not call others names just because we disagree them.

Um....I wasn't aware that John317 was gay...And even if I was, I still don't think that is YOUR story to tell...even if he has posted it once somewhere's on C/A... Now, there are others on this thread who ARE gay, and have publically declared themselves as such...but still, it is THIER story, not yours nor mine to tell....In this case, you have transgressed and exposed them to vulnerablities that they should not have to endure unless they are prepared for that....

Not good, Shane....bad form....

[Parade Orange]

John 317 has declared in many threads that he is indeed used to be involved in the gay lifestyle and is now happily married.

Shane did not 'out' him.

John317 has shared his story in "Meet the members" and on many threads shared more bits and pieces regarding this issue.

I dont think Shane meant to throw John317 to the lions if thats what your thinking. Cause we do know many here will and do rip people to pieces in the name of GOD.

[Stan]

can anyone find those?

[Parade Orange]

Lazerus!

Thanku for sharing more of whats going on with Mayor Street.

A friendship.

I am sure Olger can understand the complexities and care of maintaining friendships.

and a straight christian conservative man reaching out to gays and lezbians so he dont continue in adding to the alienation of rightwingers and the gay community.

BRILLIANT!

I take off my bonnet in admiration for Godly wisdom.

[Amelia]

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/99750#Post99750

[Woody]

And off of personal issues.

Thank you Laz for your post. I think this clarifies this issue a lot. It certainly says a lot about the mayor. He is well respected by both sides and this post clears up his motive.

Are there still any stone throwers out there?

The Bible comes out on Top and particularly Matt.18

[John317]

You guys! What you are doing here is as evil in God's eyes as homosexual acts performed by homosexual humans. You are killing or condeming our brothers and sisters just as surely as they are doing what is evil in God's eyes.

No I do not support homosexual acts for that is just plain sin but, I do love and support those who are homosexual. I happen to have 4-5 friends who are homosexuals. Some of them are acting homosexuals and though I do not believe that what they are doing is right, they still are my friends. I also have some that are not practising homosexuals and they are my brothers in Christ just as surely as you are my brothers in Christ.

No, we don't have to condone homosexuality but, we do have to love these people just as Jesus would.

I'm sorry you're misunderstanding what I am saying. I can see now that it's my fault. I was trying to explain what I believe was Lot's view of things and why he did what he did in offering his daughters to the men for sex in place of the "men" angels. (By the way, there's a very similar, even more tragic story in the Bible in Judges 19:22-25.)

I am the last person who would want anyone to dislike gay people. That would hurt me personally. I've lived in gay relationships and still consider myself "gay," even though I don't act it out and God is giving me victory over that life-style as well as the wrong desires and thoughts. Only a little over 3 years ago I was still deeply involved in those things. I lived that way from 1968 to 2003. I came very close to marrying another man, who along with me was baptized at a Quiet Hour Evangelistic series. After that I studied theology at PUC and LLU and then worked for a number of years as a colporteur and associate pastor. I gave up a call to the gospel ministry because I didn't think God could give me total victory over my homosexuality, and I didn't want to live a lie. I was addicted to men, and the truth is that I really didn't want to give that up completely.

All of my best and closest friends in my adult life have been gay, but I had to give them up when I decided to live totally for God because if I had kept up those friendships, I just know I would have slipped back into that lifestyle.

I hid these things from everybody and only told it the last year or so because Parade Orange encouraged me to share it so that others in similar situations can see that God can help people stop practicing that lifestyle.

Anyway, I really didn't mean for my statement to be understood as anti-gay. I probably should have said something to that effect on my previous post.

[Woody]

This topic just really demonstrates to me the importance of not judging another's actions. But for those who do feel you have to judge ... at least get the others perspective before you condemn and throw stones.

[Guest gem]

Thanks for sharing your story. Well said, and will probably make some readers cry. A very good one.

[darlene]

John317, I really admire someone who is open and honest like you are. Thanks for sharing. Yes, you will always be a homosexual and though you may be that, you still are my brother in Christ and I will accept you and support you as you are.

[Parade Orange]

Darlene thanku for saying that!

[Parade Orange]

John317!

its always nice to see you and your willingness to share- there is the only real fellowship a church can have.

being honest about yourself and lift JESUS up as our strenghth.

[Woody]

Quote:

Street needs to be disfellowshipped immediately, if we are to have any credibility in our world. Unaddressed, this will damage our Adventist youth even further.

I think this suggestion would be far more damaging to our "credibility" than lavishing praise on this honorable man.

[Parade Orange]

Street needs to be disfellowshipped?

For attending a gay wedding?

whoever said that is foolish.

Jesus hung around the scum of the society to reach out to them and show them the Father.

The churched was yelling for His Disfellowship!

fools!