Baptism--What would you do?

[Liz]

I am not real sure where this should go, so if there is a better forum please move it.

My son is getting ready to be baptized. He is studying, he is earnest. He would have gladly done it when he was 7 years old, I just thought that was a bit to young and wouldn't allow it. He is now 12 and he even realizes that 7 was way to young. He is still studying like I said, but will likely be ready in a year or so.

Here is the problem, I hate the way my home church does baptisms. They do the regular worship service and then at the very end they run the candidate through and in less than five minutes it is over.

I was raised where the whole day was dedicated to the bastism. Where the parents presents a special Bible verse, you have a special song, and after they are baptized then the whole congregation stands up and says something along the lines of "we will help you stay on the narrow path, to stay strong, and keep focused on Christ", and then of course is the receiving line where every one hugs the new member, and lets not forget potluck. But everything was geared towards the Baptism, and Baptismal candidate.

None of that is allowed now. They will have potluck, because they have potluck every week--so it is nothing special. Nothing else will be accomodated.

So what would you do? There are three SDA churches where we live. One is in Spanish and since we don't speak the language that one is out, the other one made it very clear that we were not welcome a couple of years ago, so I am leery about going back to that one.

How far would you travel in order for your child to be baptized in a way that is meaningful? Or am I missing the point? Should the fact that he is baptized be all the matters and the "how" of it tossed out the window?

Just wondering, but are ordained ministers the only ones that can baptize?

I am anxiously waiting to hear what ya'lls thoughts are, you can even tell me I am way off base.

[Woody]

Liz ... I would go to the ends of the earth to have a good baptism for your son.

However .... I do not think that is necessary. Any good Pastor worth his/her salt ... would be pleased to follow all of your suggestions for a baptism. I think it might light a fire in them to do this for all people.But at least they should be willing to do it for you and your son.

You are RIGHT ON. NOT off base. We should make baptism a big celebration. There should be giving of gifts. Singing and Rejoicing. A Testimony session. Praise Session. Lots and Lots of activity.

As to your question ... Can only ordained ministers baptize. The clear answer it NO. Any minister can. And even sometimes elders also. But here is where it gets a little UNclear ....

The above is the tradition and practice of the "orgainzation". This is not the Biblical approach. The truth is that we are ALL ministers. Therefore we can ALL baptize. Scripture calls us to all be ministers and the Gospel Commission is for us ALL to go and Baptize. Our SDA tradition has been to compartmentalize this and place a hiarachy on ministers. But again that is just tradition ... not a Biblical injunction.

But anyway .... Please approach your minister and suggest what you have outlined. If he/she says no ... which I sincerely doubt .... GO as FAR away as you NEED. !!

Keep us informed. God is GOOD !!

[carolaa]

I am not real sure where this should go, so if there is a better forum please move it.

My son is getting ready to be baptized. He is studying, he is earnest. He would have gladly done it when he was 7 years old, I just thought that was a bit to young and wouldn't allow it. He is now 12 and he even realizes that 7 was way to young. He is still studying like I said, but will likely be ready in a year or so.

Here is the problem, I hate the way my home church does baptisms. They do the regular worship service and then at the very end they run the candidate through and in less than five minutes it is over.

I was raised where the whole day was dedicated to the bastism. Where the parents presents a special Bible verse, you have a special song, and after they are baptized then the whole congregation stands up and says something along the lines of "we will help you stay on the narrow path, to stay strong, and keep focused on Christ", and then of course is the receiving line where every one hugs the new member, and lets not forget potluck. But everything was geared towards the Baptism, and Baptismal candidate.

None of that is allowed now. They will have potluck, because they have potluck every week--so it is nothing special. Nothing else will be accomodated.

So what would you do? There are three SDA churches where we live. One is in Spanish and since we don't speak the language that one is out, the other one made it very clear that we were not welcome a couple of years ago, so I am leery about going back to that one.

How far would you travel in order for your child to be baptized in a way that is meaningful? Or am I missing the point? Should the fact that he is baptized be all the matters and the "how" of it tossed out the window?

Just wondering, but are ordained ministers the only ones that can baptize?

I am anxiously waiting to hear what ya'lls thoughts are, you can even tell me I am way off base.

Wow, I can really relate to your feelings as a mom. My son was baptized earlier this year, and I know what a special time that is!! Here are a few thoughts I would share.

I think the "how" of it can be very important, but the main thing is to be sure the plans you are making will be meaningful to your son. Provide many discussions with him to determine what *he* wants for his baptism. For instance, if he is looking forward to being baptized with his friends and/or in the presence of his beloved church family, then it wouldn't be right to cart him off to another church in order to fulfill your dream of the perfect baptism. If he is used to, and expecting, the type of baptism they have at your church, then he may not feel comfortable with the big to-do that you would like. So just remember to make it special for him, whatever that means.

In Texas Conference, I believe an unordained person can baptize someone as long as there is an ordained minister present who can vouch for the candidate and the person doing the baptizing. For instance, the person might like to be baptized by the person who studied with them, and often that is permissible. I think something like that is supposed to be cleared through the Conference beforehand, though.

It is certainly ok for the candidate to have other people in the tank with him, as well. I saw one baptism where the grandparents even got in! Of course, that's assuming you have a nice, big baptistry. I saw one that was portable and only fit 1 person, and the minister had to stand on the outside.

Also talk with your pastor to see what accommodations could be made to make the service more special. It's very possible they would not object to a special song or poem, etc. I would be hesitant to ask the congregation to do too much if they are not used to it. Maybe the pastor could have a sermon about baptism, fitting appropriate songs and scripture/responsive reading into the service, then culminating in the baptism.

Are there other candidates besides your son? If so, you really need to work with them on what will take place. I saw a baptism once with candidates (children) from two families. Unbeknownst to the pastor (long story), one family had planned a little mini-service like what you described, while the other didn't know they could do such a thing. I'm sure it was very special to the one family (at least to the adults who planned it), but the other family was quite overshadowed and I felt sad for them. (I saw a similar thing happen at a baby dedication, as well.)

If you decide you really want to do something special, maybe you could have it in the afternoon. That way you can invite friends from other area churches, or even non-SDA friends/family who might hesitate to attend a worship service. You can do basically whatever you want, for as long as you want, and the grumpies who don't want that kind of service can go home, but your son will be left surrounded by the people who love him most.

Those are some thoughts that come to mind. Keep us posted on how it goes!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I had my baptism on a Sunday afternoon. We sent out invitations to people we thought would be interested in coming. The minister doing the service interviewed me during the service to let people know where I'd been and how I got to the point of baptism. Then each of the five people who were especially instrumental in leading me to God got up and gave a short vignette about me - what they saw in me....how they saw me change. I also had 2 short messages on CD's that were played as a gift to me from Steve Wohlberg and also Rudy Micelli. The whole thing was videotaped by VOP since Lonnie Melashenko did my baptism.

It was a very cool service. We also had a small reception afterwards at the church.

That was one of the best days of my life.

Maybe your son could incorporate some of the features too -- sending out invitations, having the baptism done on a Sabbath afternoon or on a Sunday, have a favorite singer perform, have a potluck or, better yet, a reception for him afterwards.

...just some thoughts. I think the day of baptism should be memorable for the rest of one's life.

And for those who think baptism should be dunk, thunk, drip (the equivalent of wham, bam, thank you ma'am) I would do this:

[aldona]

Quote:

Just wondering, but are ordained ministers the only ones that can baptize?

Jesus told His disciples, as part of the Great Commission, to go into all the world and baptize.

Thus, if we take this at face value, it would seem to imply that we all have the responsibility of baptizing, just as we all have the responsibility of preaching/teaching, witnessing and making disciples.

Unfortunately this is not the way it works in practice in the organized church, with its "Catholic"-style division between Clergy and Laity.

"The priesthood of all believers" is just a quaint-sounding phrase that has no meaning anymore.

Interestingly, as a medical student in a public hospital, the above example of the Great Commission was quoted by our fellow Christians of those denominations which believe in infant baptism, as a reason why any person who professes to be a Christian can be called upon to baptize a sick baby in an emergency. Not just a priest or someone with a certain "ordained" status.

Thus, it would seem that in this regard, we have become more "Catholic" than the Catholics.

aldona

[John317]

The New Testament contains directions for church structure. There would be total chaos, even more than there already is today, if every believer was baptizing people. Remember that Jesus did not have everyone who claimed to believe in Him involved in baptizing, but rather the Bible says it was Jesus' disciples who were baptizing in His name, or authority. You might study 1 Cor. 12; Ephesians 4 and the so-called Pastoral Epistles, First and Second Timothy and Titus, in order to see the structure that God put in place. Even the prophet of God, Ellen White, did not baptize, and the great Apostle Paul very seldom did so. That is generally the responsibility and work of pastors, or ministers, and evangelists, etc.

Early in the Adventist experience, there were many opposed to organization, because they felt that it would be copying "Babylon," or the "fallen churches." But organization and church structure was found to be essential in order to hold property as well as to make a distinction between what the Adventist church believed and did not believe.

One of the reasons it's important that only certain "authorized" people baptize is so that the church can make sure a person is ready for it and knows what it means. Otherwise there would be many more people than there are at present joining the church who don't even believe in its teachings. If that were the case, the church would lose its focus, and consequently its mission. That is exactly what Satan wants to happen. That would be like Christ losing his focus on why He came to this world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Otherwise there would be many more people than there are at present joining the church who don't even believe in its teachings.

The problem with this reasoning is that when you are baptized ... you are not joining a set of beliefs or even a church ... YOU are JOINING .... THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Then ... after you join the Body .... you can elect to have a vote and IF you get 51% of those present at this particular church in tin buck two ... then you now can be a member of a church organization and all of its beliefs.

Baptism does not join you to this. SO, what you need to know is quite simple. Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour ??? YES or NO.

Time to Dunk. And Join the Body of Christ.

[Gregory Matthews]

I have mixed emotions as to how to respond to this post.

Communication with your pastor may accomplish what you want. I am aware of baptisms that are conducted as a special service, scheduled at a special time.

That could even be following potluck, with printed invitations that are sent out to special people.

With a cooperative pastor, you can plan for a special service, and all that constitutes such, just as you can plan your own wedding.

NOTE: You should probably attempt to work with your own pastor. Many pastors consider it best for people to be baptized in the local congration, by a pastoral staff who has worked with them.

[Woody]

Gregory ... we heard one side of your "mixed" feelings. Can you share the other side?

[quirky]

We have this mindset at our church, too. At the beginning of the year, they ordained a new elder. The whole ordination took place during the "Announcement Time" before the church service started. They didn't acknowledge his wife or family. All the other elders weren't even aware it was going to be done, so some weren't there for the laying on of hands. It was all quick, hurry up and let's get onto the real service.

I was so embarassed for the elder being ordained, I wrote a letter to the Worship Committee. The only reply I got was the next week during the announcement time, the Pastor made a reference to the fact that the Divine Service actually starts at 10:50 (Announcement Time) not at 11:00.

The problem in our church is the Worship Committee is run by a former school teacher who thinks everything must run according to his tight schedule and church MUST be done by a certain time or the ceiling will cave in or lightning will strike.

When somebody takes longer than they are allotted to do a part of the service, I keep expecting a big hook to come out from the side of the platform and yank them off!!

Of course, the school teacher is allowed to get up there and take as long as he wants whenever it is his turn! That is what burns me the most.

[Woody]

The November Issue of Ministry ... "Is your church a politics-free zone? ... There is a good article about POWER in the church. It is written by Steve Walikonis from College Place WA.

People leave the SDA Church not because of Doctrine ... but because of the issue you raise here .... POWER struggles.

What a shame. More than anything ... we need tolerance and flexibility with Love for one another. For truly ... Love WON another.

[Woody]

Yep ... Protect the staus quo. If you have new light or ideas ... they will be rejected as evil.