Reaching Males

[Stan]

Perhaps Male Man can answer this best..

As he pointed out, only 30% of people in Church are Males.

SO

What can change that?

AND please no NON-ANSWERS that include words like Laodicean or Revival.

[bonnie]

Maybe the best place to look for answers is the home. This is where the foundation is laid.

Bonnie

[carolaa]

We need to incorporate more risk into the church. Like dirt biking and sky diving.

[Woody]

I think that one aspect of what Bonnie says is true. I think that modeling is important. If your father attends church then you are more likely to think it is OK.

I think one issue is that men are often more practical minded. They want to bring home the vege-bacon. Their career is more important than religion.

Finally ... I will point out that we tend to present the wrong image of Christianity to men sometimes. Men are facts and stats minded. I think they may see the legalistic end of religion somewhat more than women. Women see the grace and love. Men see the A + B = C . OR the do this and that and earn Salvation. So they reject this and rightfully so.

[bonnie]

I am not sure what is important to other men, I have only been married to one. But for him his job was a means to provide for his family, many times working two and when he began his own business 60 hour work weeks were common. His job came to an end late Fri evening and did not begin again till Sun morning. Taking each son to work to spend one on one time with them, teach them a trade and a work ethic

Sometimes the most informative are your children themselves as they leave home and raise their own families.

Surprising what you can learn about what you did right, what was most important to them concerning their childhood and probably most of all what you may have done wrong.

Christianity is always practical. I am always surprised when I see all of the vague theys that believed they could work their way to heaven

[Dr. Shane]

I am the men's ministry director in our church. Most adult men have isolated themselves. They don't have any real close friends that they confide in. Their friendships are primarily superficial. This goes for believers and nonbelievers alike. In our church we have monthly Sunday morning breakfasts where a group of men get together, watch a 1/2 hour video or listen to a speaker and then discuss the topic being presented. Our church has about 300 members that attend Sabbath morning services (we have two services) and we average about ten men that come to our breakfasts. I try to make lunch dates with men during the week in order to build relationships and the ministry.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

My dad refused to become an Adventist or to step foot in an SDA church for over 25 years. It was because an SDA who played *good witness* by having SDA literature out in his office waiting room and by being obnoxiously persistent in telling everyone about the sda faith. That guy did my dad dirt in a business deal - and my Dad had no use for most SDA's after that.

The first Adventist who took an interest in talking to my Dad was my academy principal...and they did NOT talk religion. Elder Meske talked to my Dad about things he (my dad) was interested in, like school (Dad was a public high school teacher), wilderness survival, mountain climbing, Boy Scouts. THAT made a big impression on my Dad.

Then other people, like the parents of my friends, came over to help in the move to our new home. THAT made an impression too. And then when there was an evangelistic program, the pastor and Lynn Martell came out to our house to chat with my Dad.....and not try to tell him about the SDA faith, but just to be friendly.

THAT made an impression on Dad as well, and he got baptized (to my chagrin at the time) at the end of that evangelistic series.

So, imho, the men should try and be helpful and make friends with non-SDA. And Brother, Walk Your Talk, or you won't get anywhere.

[Taylor]

Awsome Pam! Thanks so much for sharing!

[Woody]

Quote:

In our church we have monthly Sunday morning breakfasts where a group of men get together, watch a 1/2 hour video or listen to a speaker and then discuss the topic being presented.

I don't know. There are many who would say this sounds too much like "church". For some reason many SDAs feel that we should not have "church" on Sunday.

I tried to promote having "church" on both Sunday and Sabbath. Many of my friends go to church on both days and are feed.

It may not be possible for all to come on Sabbath. This would be a good way to reach many males who just would not come of Sabbath.

But then I am radical when it comes to reaching people where they are at.

PS. And thank you Pam for your comments. I think that is very good. I agree with you.

[bonnie]

I am not disagreeing with you that bad things happen. Many SDA's destroying the very behaviour they are wishing to see in another

And there are many that come from abusive,dysfunctional homes. Homes where the mother is beat as well as the children. This is what they learn

Many are turned off quickly just showing an interest by a zealot,conservative or liberal.

Our childhood is the foundation for how we perceive things. Not always good but definetly not always bad. Your "good witness" was displaying the foundation he had.

As for the help your family received and those that took an interest in your father in a better way are also displaying the foundation laid in their childhood. One they needed to do better than their parents or to use the good of what they learned.

Sometimes with our sons I am surprised how they perceived certain events or certain demands we placed on them.

Times we were wrong and how they have gone on to right that with their own families.

For those not raised in a christian enviroment or those that come from another christian denomination the speed they can be turned off adventism with is amazing.

What continually surprises me is the long term SDA family that says "the church taught their children this and that" and that is why they left the church. Where were they when the church was teaching them all the wrong things?? To me, laying the foundation for problems to come

Your experience does happen frequently

We lost a young mother with four children that was just beginning to show a deep interest. One fine lady went up to her following potluck and suggested all women were to help with cleanup. When the new member explained she needed to watch her four young ones a mini-sermon began about following EW about the proper spacing of children. Needless to say that abruptly ended all interest.

But most still goes back to the foundation laid in childhood. Sometimes the foundation needs to be ripped up and began again.

Parents are responsible for 95% religious training of their children. My husband came from an abusive home,it was his responsibility to provide better for his children. He did have to rip up the foundation and begin again.

I don't dispute or disagree that men as well as women should be helpful and make freinds with non-SDA. And yes it is about walking the talk for both male and female.

Whether or not your father became an SDA early on or later in life it appears that he gave you a good foundation.

But it is not always the work to heaven conservative that turns people off.

I have a friend that simply lost interest because of a group of liberals. She took a stand for the sabbath, lost her job, and almost her home. She was promptly told "Such a drastic stand was not necessary she just needed to love the Lord"

We have a saying in our family, Avoid the conservative that thinks he will slide into heaven on his vegeburger and the liberal that can't lose his salvation no matter how hard he works at it. Sometimes there seems to be far more of one or the other than common sense

[Woody]

Quote:

Sometimes there seems to be far more of one or the other than common sense

And some people need to just ignore both extremes and use that common sense.

Some just need to realize that we have and have to live with people of both extremes. All kinds of beliefs are present but that does not mean that the church supports such extreme beliefs. We do have to use our heads and just reject both extremes.

[bonnie]

Most of the time it does not appear to happen that way. The two extremes rule the day

[Woody]

Bonnie ... that does seem to happen at times. I agree. How sad. But we have to be students of the Bible and sort out those extremes. Stand up against them. That is what we have to teach. And I think the males of all people ... should be able to do that. Sorry. Maybe I am showing some bias here.

[carolaa]

Bonnie ... that does seem to happen at times. I agree. How sad. But we have to be students of the Bible and sort out those extremes. Stand up against them. That is what we have to teach. And I think the males of all people ... should be able to do that. Sorry. Maybe I am showing some bias here.

Well, that's because women are so easily deceived. :smilewink:

[Bravus]

The church I attend does several of those things - regular men's breakfasts with discussion or a speaker as well as a hearty meal, events like 'Shed nights' where we gather at the shed of one of the members, and 'manly' fun activities like gokarting and even a clay pigeon shoot next weekend.

The activities are important, but the men are the key - these are guys I want to be around, because they are good, kind, thoughtful men. It makes me think there's a 'critical mass' issue as well as a character issue here - you not only need those kind of guys, you need enough of them to make a group. In many smaller SDA churches that might be tough to achieve. Makes me wonder about amalgamating with other SDA churches for men's activities or, where necessary (gasp) with other Christian fellowships.

[carolaa]

The church I attend does several of those things - regular men's breakfasts with discussion or a speaker as well as a hearty meal, events like 'Shed nights' where we gather at the shed of one of the members, and 'manly' fun activities like gokarting and even a clay pigeon shoot next weekend.

The activities are important, but the men are the key - these are guys I want to be around, because they are good, kind, thoughtful men. It makes me think there's a 'critical mass' issue as well as a character issue here - you not only need those kind of guys, you need enough of them to make a group. In many smaller SDA churches that might be tough to achieve. Makes me wonder about amalgamating with other SDA churches for men's activities or, where necessary (gasp) with other Christian fellowships.

Those are all great, wonderful ideas, but I think the original question was about how we can make our *worship services* more meaningful to the manly man.

[aldona]

Perhaps Male Man can answer this best..

As he pointed out, only 30% of people in Church are Males.

SO

What can change that?

AND please no NON-ANSWERS that include words like Laodicean or Revival.

There has been a lot of talk about how the format of the church and its services is supposedly female-oriented.

The format of the church and its services follows the model which originated in the days of the early Adventist church. I have not heard of James White and other church pioneers sitting around arguing about how to make the church more male-friendly. People simply came to church - males and females.

So has church changed - or have men changed?

In the 19th century, men were comfortable singing hymns about the sweet and gentle love of Jesus without worrying about appearing like some kind of sissy.

A quick glance at the contents of some of the classical music pieces that I know and love confirms this to be the case. Men could happily involve themselves in poetry, arts, and the more "gentle" things in life, without the slightest concern that this would make them less manly. (Often, it would have been a way of "picking up chicks", so to speak!)

Because the modern man has developed this apparent need to constantly be a football-playing, hunting, fishing, muscle-bound, car-obsessed, aggressive warrior hero, why should the church have to change to accommodate him?

I can just picture it - Jesus starts a parable by saying "Consider the lilies of the field," and the disciples roll their eyes and say "That's sissy! That only appeals to females! Give us a parable about the Roman gladiators!"

aldona

[bonnie]

I belong to a small conservative church 75-100 members. Have been there since 1947 and have never seen any of the men or the women "gasp" at the thought of fellowship with another denomination.

As a child our practise was to attend vacation Bible School all summer long. They were staggered so that one did not overlap the other.

[bonnie]

The responsibility is mine as well as my husbands, unless of course I can ride his coattails to heaven.

[Stan]

Wonder if any one can find the percentage of male vs female attendance for Muslims, Hindis, Sikhs etc

[Woody]

Quote:

Well, that's because women are so easily deceived

To that I say ...

Quote:

Satan chooses women, for he can use them more successfully than he can men." (Manusript Releases, vol. 10 p. 76, Ms. 29, 1911, p. 13.)

[Woody]

Quote:

where necessary (gasp) with other Christian fellowships.

NOW we are hitting on something. What a witness to both groups if we actually went to the Baptist mens group. Here Here.

[Guest Male Man]

Quote:

NON-ANSWERS that include words like Laodicean or Revival

There ya go, right there. You cannot control this discussion like that. That is feminine because it keeps it nice and safe like women want. The answers are in scripture and Revelation chapter 3 has alot to do with this discussion.

So far all the answers have been either do it outside of the church or at home - why? Nobody has suggested that it may be the church? (Laodicean attitude - "we have need of no change, we are ok).

In the olden days (EGW's time), yes they sung the gentle songs but there was other stuff to balance it out. The men figured prominently in worship and the teaching and preaching was wild sister - much wilder than any conference would allow it's ministers to preach nowdays.

Bravo for those who set up mens groups. We need to go much further than this though and make the services male friendly. Bring in some electric guitars and loud instruments. Stop the grannies from leading out and screeching into the mic on Sabbath mornings. Bring on the drums and put a couple of axes crossed over on the wall(very scriptural) instead of a croche'd rug. Have some guys who are not over dressed before the services look out for men in the foyer. Don't put preachers into the pulpit who do not have the gift of preaching. If people/your youth are falling asleep/getting bored during the sermon, then this is a sure sign the gift is not present.

Remember, most males who will approach your church these days will come from a broken home and maybe even be brought up by mum. We have to de-feminise the church somehow because men on the street see the church as for wussies and a place where only weak men go. That is the perception and they may be correct.

[carolaa]

Quote:

Well, that's because women are so easily deceived

To that I say ...

Quote:

Satan chooses women, for he can use them more successfully than he can men." (Manusript Releases, vol. 10 p. 76, Ms. 29, 1911, p. 13.)

Hmmm (the way Marge Simpson says it!)... So is EW talking about herself with that quote? And is that a general statement, or is that referring to any particular areas?

[Woody]

Quote:

Bring in some electric guitars and loud instruments

bring on the drums

Now we are talking. But I do believe you have to have balance. You have to also bring on the hymns and the childrens songs. You have to meet the need of all. Not just a select group.